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I never said to buy Mig 29. I did say to upgrade our Mig 29 to be semi lethal, that should be within Iran’s domestic capabilities.

(Realistic) wishlist of what I would like to see Iran purchase any of the following

1. J-31
2. SU-35S
3. J-10C
4. SU-30 with local license production (major ToT)

NOTE: technically J-10C could be considered more modern than SU-35S, but China is a wildcard in international relations. They largely stay out of supporting conflicts (if they occur) so having a lot of J-10C and no Chinese spare parts is Iran-Iraq war all over again.

The chances above happening are still low, but they are more realistic than ever touching SU-57 or SU-75.

Your SU-75 idea isn’t even rooted in reality. Russia hasn’t shown any indication of giving us any flankers outside of SU-27 (rumors) and now you are asking for SU-75? Why not ask for F-22? Or B-2 bomber? Since we live in fantasy land anything is possible.

-Russia does not allow their 4th generation fighters to be locally messed with by any country including India who paid 62 Million USD for SU-30MKI with CDK kits and the plane is still not the mainstay of their airforce. The same goes for their MIG-29 upgrade package which was as expensive as it can get. HESA and IEI can pull a proper MLU and avionics upgradation on MIG-29 to atleast Kowsar level with good western tech radar, e-warfare suite, and datalink but they won't, its a 4th generation Russian jet. Crappy radar and avionics and won't survive in battle but it's still Russian.

- Nobody is giving Iran SU-35S and J-31 for god's sake. Even if SU-35S is offered or was part of the dialogue as per the report, it will be stupid to spend 3 Billion USD on 24 jets with 10-15 m2 RCS carrying a radar that tracks an F-16C at 100 KM. IRIAF can get all its 40-45 F-14A to AM standard, create a force of 150 Kowsar-1 with the entire MIG fleet MLUed and upgrade in that amount of money.
 
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-Russia does not allow their 4th generation fighters to be locally messed with by any country

No solid proof of this. Most of its fighters are sold to banana countries who don’t have the industrial or knowledge base to modify the planes in any significant way.

Iran has a history of modifying or outright copying Russian weapons without license with no ramifications. It modified the export variant range restriction on TOR-M1 shortly after purchase. And now it copied the TOR-M1. It copied their torpedo. It copied their OTH design. Copied their radars. Copied their EW/ECW jammers. Just going off top of my head based on my aging memory.

But suddenly it’s fighter jets with older tech is off limits? Lol

If Bell and the power (and money) of American arms industry couldn’t do anything to Iran then Russia cannot do anything either. Even when they sold SU-35 to China they had to beg for assurances China wouldn’t reverse engineer. No recourse for Russia.

It would be one thing if Iran bought SU-35 then tried to sell that same SU-35 to Hezbollah or something. Or had license production to produce AL-31 (example) then tried to export that product to Venezuela.

Contracts can have a clause prohibiting selling to another country. Hence why Iran ultimately couldn’t get the Sukhoi Superjet because it had parts from Boeing/Airbus. (Thank god for that decision because look at Russia now cut off from spare parts).

create a force of 150 Kowsar-1 with the entire MIG fleet MLUed and upgrade in that amount of money.

You remind me a lot of @VEVAK, when you get an idea stuck in your head you only see that idea. Except Vevak hated Kowsar. He knew the limitations of such a platform. I don’t hate it. I think it’s a good modernization program for F-5. Like Karrar is a good modernization program for Iran’s aging T-72. I wouldn’t build 5000 Karrar though. It’s a good stop gap till Iran has a truly modern Tank design.

Anyway back to topic.... where is Iran going to build 300 owj engines from? (150 Kowsar you mentioned) To me it looks owj production capability is at workshop production level not mass factory production level. We don’t even know how many hours an owj engine lasts till it needs major work. It could be far from optimal range for all we know.

- Nobody is giving Iran SU-35S and J-31 for god's sake.

But they will give SU-57 or SU-75? Swear you guys are bi polar sometimes with your logic.

I said it’s a wishlist and still very low chance of happening. I’m skeptical getting those jets... which is why it’s laughable to talk about going after SU-57/75.

You guys have zero plans to replace F-14. You think they will fly forever. We just lost one. As time goes on more will have to be sent to storage for fatigued airframes. Lack of titanium aerospace production facilities means you aren’t building brand new F-14 airframes like you are with a titanium-less F-5 airframe, so less flight hours on flight worthy ones.

I mean there is only so much stress an airframe can take...no?

Unless I am missing something extending F-14’s beyond 2040 seems to be economically unviable. (Assuming they are still even remotely competitive before that time)

I’d rather get my hands on a medium-heavy engine now so that by 2040, Iran has experience building medium to heavy jet engines. So it can then realistically build an interceptor alternative. I’m not planning on war in next 10 years that’s why I don’t care for J-10C or any short term alternative, I’m planning on having a solid domestic Air Force capability by 2050. The only way you get there is having a capable heavy engine. Ask the Chinese how long it took and how much effort.

Because as it stands now by 2040 we will have Kowsar-X and nothing else (assuming there isn’t some super secret interceptor black project Iran is working on).
 
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With such a logic you would have told Tehrani Moghadam to not mess around with trying to replicate the SCUD in 1980’s because it was obsolete and inaccurate.

Buying SU-75 (by itself) will only stagnant the Iranian defense industry.

If you cannot copy a F-14 after 40 years, you sure as hell ain’t gonna be to make a 6th gen fighter anytime soon. So buying SU-75 will not advance directly advance Iranian aviation industry. They can learn somethings from the plane, but when you lack basic building blocks such as building a titanium airframe, how much can you truly learn? Local production of SU-30 will advance Iranian defense industry by some 20 years.

Some of you think in your mind you can jump from Kowsar to 6th gen medium-heavy fighter. No country in the world (not even China) has been able to do that. Sure if you had access to outsource different parts like Turkey you could scrap together a Frankenstein of foreign parts plane and call it “Iranian” in name only.

SU-35S purchase plus localized SU-30 production is still a low low chance of happening, but more realistic. Iran needs a heavy engine that is efficient and reliable. Without that we will be having this conversation in 2030, 2040, 2050

Israel/Saudi Arabia/Europe/Turkey/USA will nix any 5th Gen fighter jet sale to Iran (SU-57 or Su-75). Once again Iran will be bargaining chip for world powers to entice Russia to not sell game changing armaments. And Russia under such draconian sanctions will gladly use Iran again like it has in the past.
You are here putting word in my mouth. Everybody here knew I'm all out supporting an indigenous air plane even if the rate of production be 3 airplane per year.
Also I never mentioned su 57 you mentioned it. What I said is tdzhat it's better for us to invest in su-75 than waste money on outdated mig-29
 
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MIG-29 has superb physical performance like high maneuverability, climb rate, dash, speed etc.
That can be achieved on kowsar with a single rd_33 instead of two of them mig-29 is out dated on many account. It use a hydraulic system that consist 1/3rd of airplane weidht and take out precious space inside airplane that can be used for many better things
The radar even in the most advance models is not yet AESA also the feature you mentioned by introduction of new missiles become a little old.
and SU-75 for IRIAF ? I would be surprised if we get our current MIG-29 9.12 and SU-24M fleet MLUed let along upgraded by Russia. Probably the most realistic solution is to focus on Kowsar-I/II in high numbers with domestic sub systems and those that we yet cant make should be procured like a small ARH BVR missile. Fakour-90 cant be miniaturized
That su 75 was an answer to the people who promoted mig_29 they suggest we go to the trouble of going and convince Russia to sell us mig-29 or upgrade our mig-29 I said to them if they want to go and deal with the problems that come with it better spend the time on convincing Russia about su-50

Fakour-90 cant be miniaturized
Fakour cant be miniaturized but fatter and aim-7 can be modernized

Bell and the power (and money) of American arms industry couldn’t do anything to Iran then Russia cannot do anything either. Even when they sold SU-35 to China they had to beg for assurances China wouldn’t reverse engineer. No recourse for Russia.
Bell and Northrop can't do anything because of the deal we had with them when acquiring those airplanes and helicopter. Northrop wanted to go to court over the matter but decided they have very little chance of winning
 
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You guys have zero plans to replace F-14. You think they will fly forever. We just lost one. As time goes on more will have to be sent to storage for fatigued airframes. Lack of titanium aerospace production facilities means you aren’t building brand new F-14 airframes like you are with a titanium-less F-5 airframe, so less flight hours on flight worthy ones.
If you have read our posts you see we have already said th.e next generation kowsar with proper engine and aesa radar will be a multi role fighter that will be capable of doing what f-14 right do with brute force with modern technology.
 
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If you have read our posts you see we have already said th.e next generation kowsar with proper engine and aesa radar will be a multi role fighter that will be capable of doing what f-14 right do with brute force with modern technology.

No long range BVR. It’s a sitting duck. Will burn most it’s fuel just trying to intercept the target let alone engage.

Every target it would realistically go up against would have a stronger and longer range radar due size limitation. Saying “AESA” means nothing when you don’t talk about details of the radar.

And if you have a built a “proper engine” (RD-33 or AL-31 equivalent) then why bother with F-5 airframe? Sticking a single RD-33 into a F-5 means that plane has to basically be redesigned adding more cost to the project. Sometimes you say bizarre things.

Instead redesigning Kowsar, you could build a medium fighter airframe with more modern design to reduce RCS with this “capable engine”. I don’t expect Iran to reach RCS of a Raptor or F-35, but substantial reduction via computer modeling and simulation and radar rooms (that Iran has shown off) is very much possible.

Kowsar isn’t the future of Iranian Air Force anymore than Karrar is future of Iranian Army Mechanized division.
 
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No long range BVR. It’s a sitting duck. Will burn most it’s fuel just trying to intercept the target let alone engage.
you still don't get what i say
And if you have a built a “proper engine” (RD-33 or AL-31 equivalent) then why bother with F-5 airframe? Sticking a single RD-33 into a F-5 means that plane has to basically be redesigned adding more cost to the project. Sometimes you say bizarre things.
rd-33 is equivalent to f-404 in size , guess what airplane used a single F404
 
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A SU-30/35 is still more than anything Iran has produced or will produce in next 10 years at this pathetic rate. I don’t blame the IRIAF too much, it comes down to high level decision making and needed funding.

Cant build without a serious effort. We wouldn’t have Bavar 373 if there wasn’t a push by the highest circles of government and military to have a long range domestic Air Defense systems.

I also wouldn’t make fun of a fighter jet when you can’t even build its airframe let alone its “outdated” engines. You are much more likely to get ToT on older planes than anything reliable from 5th Gen fighter “partnership”.

Unless your plan is to have a bunch of Kowsars “save” Iran’s airforce and pray that F-14 can keep flying for another 20 years. In which case, good luck.

We had this conversation before but you apparently do not even read other persons post and just go on and on with your own assumptions. Flanker family (SU-27,30,33,35) has weak avionics for their price or competitors in west, I posted their official video of tracking a fighter with IRBIS-E barely at 100 km and they all have massive RCS in 10-15 m2 range (same airframe, no evidence of RAM). An invading party of low RCS western planes like Rafale, EF-2000, F-16D, F-18E/F (0.5-3 m2) will track these elephants from ~150 KM and fire multiple LR-BVR at them. That if they would not be jamming Sukhoi's soviet PESA radars first. IRIAF instead of using such a heavy jet for gaurding Iranian space will end up gaurding them themselves for they would have cost the force a fortune. Their attack capabilities for IRIAF are of little use, so what exactly is the point in spending 85 Million USD for something that offers nothing that we actually need?

"Bunch of Kowsars" have an RCS of 1-2 m2, can track a 1 m2 enemy at 93 KM (search range beyond 110 km for same RCS). They can jam adversary radars from distance, they can save themselves from jamming using ECCM, and exchange data with the entire battle field. These systems on them are not assumptions, they literally showed these devices during unveiling. You off course did not look at them. They can get overhauled, repaired, get new engines, armaments, upgrades, and modifications all at home. In the price of 24 SU-35S, you can get 200 of them. Nobody cares in the battlefield if they do not look menacing enough for your eyes or if they fly on turbojets instead of turbofans. Its the electronics that count more than anything in the modern aerial battlefield, even physically performance wise they are maneuverable supersonic fighters.

Which deal sounds better to you?
 
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SU-35S aren’t constantly getting lost to SAMs in Ukraine. Where is this info coming from?

Russia is losing SU-25 which makes sense since they flow low as a CAS thus in manpad range. They have lost SU-34 bombers. Also older SU-27. Haven’t heard of them losing SU-35s if they did maybe a couple during early months of war.

SU-35 and SU-30 probably scored the most air kills against Ukraine Air Force during the dog fighting days of the war.



Why would Russians who have a conflict hotline with Israel and get tipped off to Israeli air raids try to fire at Israeli aircraft? This is Babak Taghavee propaganda? Russian SU-35 trying to shoot down a Israeli F-35? The two countries were practically strong allies until the Ukraine war.

Israel doesn’t need to fly into Syria to bomb T4 (Iranian drone base) it can fly along Jordan border to Iraqi border and drop payloads or drop payloads thru North Lebanon.
1 SU-35 and 3 SU-30SM have been shot down, not bad. All were to SAMs. Also at least 3 of the 10 "proven" SU-34 losses might not even be SU-34 or real. One's a claimed intercepted communication (easy to fake), one you can't even see what plane it is (could be UA SU-27), and one could easily be wreckage of another plane
 
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if you read the aviationgeek link I provided, they discussed the video in which an SU-35's IRBIS-E radar detects and then tracks a target the size of ~F-16. The viewers of the video pointed out that IRBIS-E barely got a difficult track at around 100 KM. Detection is one thing but tracking the target to engage it is another and matters much more than detection. Russian aviation fans countered that the target being tracked is barely 0.6-0.7 m2. Even if we go by Russian claim here it means a SU-35S will track a EF-2000, Rafale, F-16 Block 60 at 100-120 km. By that time these adversaries would have in turn tracked SU-35S (~15 m2 RCS) and launched a BVR attack already with Meteor or AIM-120C/D. There goes your 85 million USD.

Ah that video, still yet too see how exactly exactly was RCS determined by anyone as the video does not state it

Also SU-35 average RCS is not 15 m2, that's around what SU-27/30 has. Estimates I find for 35 RCS range from under 1 m2 to 3 m2 for SU-35
 
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1 SU-35 and 3 SU-30SM have been shot down, not bad. All were to SAMs. Also at least 3 of the 10 "proven" SU-34 losses might not even be SU-34 or real. One's a claimed intercepted communication (easy to fake), one you can't even see what plane it is (could be UA SU-27), and one could easily be wreckage of another plane
Against what, other swiet Era aircrafts of far much lower quality.
Against man pads, against lower tire air defense
 
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Iran and Russia have signed an agreement on the supply of Iranian equipment, repair and maintenance services and technical support for Russian aircraft.

According to Iranian Mehr news agency, this was announced by the representative of the Civil Aviation Administration of Iran, Mirakbar Razavi

Read more: https://asiaplustj.info/en/news/world/20220727/iran-will-help-russia-with-aircraft-maintenance
You'd have to be on some hardcore drugs if you said this would happen 2 years ago
 
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maybe old news
 
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