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Iran & Saudi Arabia saber-rattling: Who would prevail in all-out war?

Who will win?

  • Saudi Arabia

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Iran

    Votes: 18 90.0%

  • Total voters
    20

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https://www.rt.com/news/409875-iran-saudi-arabia-military/

Tensions between Saudi Arabia and regional nemesis Iran are even higher than usual, with Riyadh targeting Tehran ally Hezbollah. If an actual military conflict between the two breaks out, who would have the best chance at prevailing?

The regional confrontation between the two nations separated geographically by the narrow Persian Gulf is deeply rooted in sectarian, political, and economic competition. Saudi Arabia and Iran follow the two rival sects of Islam with a long history of violence. They compete in the currently troubled energy market, with Tehran holding a grudge over the share it has lost due to sanctions imposed by Riyadh’s American patrons. They fight proxy battles, often violently, in places like Bahrain, Yemen, and Lebanon.


The recent flare-up comes as Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who is considered the de-facto ruler of the country by many observers, is solidifying power through so-called anti-corruption operations against his rivals and appealing for foreign support with promises to modernize Saudi Arabia’s brand of Islam and massive investment in futuristic projects.

The Saudi domestic struggle may stem from a series of foreign policy failures. Riyadh’s military intervention in Yemen, launched with much fanfare in 2015 to counter the Iran-aligned Houthi rebels, has become a quagmire. The crown prince was one of the key figures behind the decision, which has led to a major humanitarian disaster, but no military victory.

This year’s rift with Qatar and an economic blockade of the small Arab kingdom failed to produce swift concessions from Doha. If anything, it pushed Qatar closer to Iran, which offered logistical help, and Turkey, a country that wants to assert its own role in the region.

In Syria, Islamist militant groups favored by Saudi Arabia failed to topple the government in Damascus. Propped up by Russian air support and strengthened on the ground by Shiite militias and Iranian military instructors, the Syrian Army has essentially prevailed in the conflict.

Now Riyadh appears to be trying to stir problems for Iran in Lebanon, a nation divided along sectarian lines following a 15-year civil war that claimed 120,000 lives. One of the main developments of the war was the emergence of Hezbollah, a Shiite militant movement that is currently one of the most powerful forces in Lebanon, and part of a government formed under a power sharing agreement in 2016.


This month’s self-exile of Lebanese Sunni leader, Prime Minister Saad Hariri, announced from Riyadh, and Saudi Arabia’s indirect threat of a Qatar-style blockade, is stirring the old ghosts of the Lebanese Civil War. Hezbollah believes that Saudi Arabia is forcefully holding Hariri and that its actions amount to a declaration of war, while the Saudi government is reportedly seeking support from Israel in the confrontation with Iran.

With accusations flying, tensions running high, and anti-Iranian sentiment prevailing in the US government, the potential for serious clashes between Saudi Arabia and Iran is rising.

Crunching numbers
Predicting the outcome of a potential war based on statistics alone is pointless. For instance, Israel’s conflict with Hezbollah in 2006 ended in a draw, despite the IDF being far better funded and equipped. Still, the figures give an idea of what Tehran and Riyadh may bring into play in case of an escalation.

The website Global Firepower Index, which tracks the relative strength of national militaries, closely ranks the two nations. Saudi Arabia is estimated to be the world’s 24th-strongest nation, compared to Iran (21st).

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Iran is three times more populous than Saudi Arabia and is able to field over 39 million soldiers compared to Saudi Arabia’s 14 million. Its total military personnel is estimated at 934,000, or 3.6 times larger than its rival.

In terms of military budget, the situation is the opposite. Tehran spends $6.3 billion on defense each year, while Riyadh’s budget is $56 billion. The gap may appear more impressive than it really is, until you take into account that Saudi Arabia gets most of its weapons from the United States at steep prices, while Iran prides itself on manufacturing whatever it can domestically. Its successes in areas like rocketry are apparent.

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There is also the fact that different countries get different bang for their buck simply because goods and services have varying costs in each market. The website estimates Iran’s defense budget adjusted for purchasing power at $1.459 trillion, compared to Saudi Arabia’s at $1.731 trillion.

In terms of solid hardware, the Saudis beat Iran in the number of fighter jets and attack aircraft (177 and 245 vs. 137 and 137). Some of Iran’s planes are outdated American models left over from the times of the Shah, like the F-4 Phantom II, while others are Soviet and Chinese aircraft delivered from the late 1980s to early 1990s. The Royal Saudi Air Force is stacked with modern American, and some European, models. In case of war, Tehran hopes to shoot them down with surface-to-air missiles which it has been developing for years.

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The naval strength of the two nations arguably favors Iran. The vast difference in the number of ships (398 vs. 55) is mostly due to Iran’s mosquito fleet of 230 patrol boats, but the Persians also boast something that the Arabs do not: submarines. Iran has 33 of them, ranging in displacement from small 10-ton Al-Sabehat 15 SDVs, all the way up to its three Russian Kilo-class attack subs delivered in the 1990s. If the US does not get involved (a big if), Iran may at the very least block all Saudi ships from sailing the Persian Gulf.

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When it comes to large-scale ground battles, Iran has hardware numbers more or less on its side. It lags behind Saudi Arabia in terms of infantry fighting vehicles, but beats it in strength of tank units and vastly outnumbers in all kinds of artillery. But again, Iran’s ability to capitalize on this advantage will depend on whether it can defend the sky.

Death & destruction


Of course, if Iran and Saudi Arabia do come to blows, it would take a heavy toll on both countries and the rest of the world. Unlike the sporadic launches from Yemen, Iran’s ballistic missiles are more than capable of overwhelming Saudi defenses. But they may not be precise enough to avoid hitting non-military targets. Saudi Arabia’s record of killing civilians in Yemen leaves little room for hope that it would be more careful in a fight against Iran.

A conflict involving two major crude oil producers would also send oil prices skyrocketing, especially since a big share of the trade relies on the route through the Persian Gulf. One can use the hike on the news of the Saudi royal purge as a kind of preview of what may happen.

And if the two nations do clash, other players are unlikely to just stand by. The usual proxy forces will be spun to action. A real mess with little gain can be predicted, which is why, hopefully, it will not happen.
 
I could never understand these youtube videos and than the way they compare the war scenarios. The history is full of examples where a much smaller force took down and an over whelming forces. How the hell they make comparison on figures that this side will win because this side has so many tanks or Jets. Like Israel took out both syria and egypt in the 6 day war and that same Israel was over whelmed by Hezbollah in 2006 to a shameful defeat. War is never numbers it is always strategy.
 
While the Iranian Army is larger and more experienced, the Saudis counter this with advanced equipment & weaponry, not to mention the huge advantage the Saudi Air Force will have over Iranian Air Force.

But the experience and numbers are still too large of a gap to be filled with tech alone, and can't be ignored if a full scale war breaks out without any other country's involvement.



" Arab officers distrust other Arab officers. Arab officers distrust and look down on NCOs, the bedrock of any army. Arab officers and NCOs look down on, and treat with disdain Arab regular soldiers. Regular soldiers despise and distrust both their NCOs and officers. You cannot make an effective military force without a chain of command, and at least some respect both ways. NCOs are there to act as a mortar between the officer bricks and the regular troops bricks. Without that the whole wall will fall down. " - Louis Henwood


Saudis come from Bedouin tribes roughly 100 years ago. Only a few tribes actually participated in the overthrow of the Ottoman. There is no national identity as a basis for patriotism, loyalty is to the tribe and to the family.

I think it's fairly easy to say that if no other country intervened the Iranians would wipe the floor with the Saudis.

Now, realistically, that's never going to happen. KSA has US's full support, and you can bet they'll come to the Saudi's aid if a war were to break out between the two and crush Iran like they did Iraq.
 
I will never attend in this poll. Muslim does not kill his own Muslim brother and he will never speaks of war with him.
 
I will never attend in this poll. Muslim does not kill his own Muslim brother and he will never speaks of war with him.
There will be no Iran-AlSaud war. Al-Saud house knows that Iran s capable of targeting their dens. Arabian people are not the target period.
 
The first thing you need in war are men who are willing and capable of fighting. The Saudis sorely lack this, and its what makes them such a joke.

People are seriously overestimating the Saudi airforce. Their pilots have a very poor reputation among their American trainers. its a highly privilidged position the average jassem/abud cant even dream about. You have to be well connected/ outright prince to become a fighter pilot.

its easy bombing defenseless women and children in yemen like target practise. But in a serious war, with a serious enemy with a developed air defense system designed for a war against American aggression. I do not believe these Saudi prince/sheikh pilots will perform/or fight.

especially when they see that 2 out of 5 of their comrades taking off are not returning, getting paraded on Iranian tv, or generally lost/presumed dead somewhere in the Persian gulf~

The Saudi military is the biggest joke on earth. They literally don't have single case of having a successful operation. They couldn't even evict a few cultist from occupying the kabaa and had to call in French/Pakistanis.

the Saudis are not even in the same league as iran. Iran sees the US as its rival, with the Saudis as just 1 of their many puppets. nobody takes them or their stronkkk equipment seriously. not even themselves when they have to constantly resort to importing foreign soldiers in any situation where an enemy even remotely shoots back
 
Have Iranian Threats Spurred a Saudi-Israeli Alliance?

The Iranian-sponsored November 4 ballistic missile attack on Saudi Arabia's capital, Riyadh, continues to roil the Middle East -- and it should.

Last week, I wrote a column arguing that missile attack signaled an escalation in the simmering regional war between Sunni Muslim Saudi Arabia and Iran's Shia Islamic revolutionary regime. Their proxy war in Yemen would become more intense and could spread to the Persian Gulf littoral.

Since that column appeared, U.S. military sources have confirmed that the missile fired from Yemen by Iran-backed Houthi rebels was indeed manufactured in Iran. From its launch site to the point where it was intercepted by a U.S.-made Patriot anti-missile missile, the Iranian missile traveled almost 1,000 kilometers. Moreover, Saudi allegations that Iranian technicians were directly involved in preparing the missile and Iranian military advisers supervised the launch are now regarded as highly credible.

If these allegations are fully substantiated, we have an frightening but instructive example of a nation state (Iran) using a proxy force (Yemen's Houthis) to conduct a "plausibly deniable" ballistic missile attack on an enemy nation state (Saudi Arabia).

Illicit actors, like Iran's robed dictators, crave "plausible deniability," which in international affairs is loosely defined as creating an operational cover story that gives the illicit actors a media shield for denying "knowledge of or responsibility for" a particularly heinous and barbaric act.

Here's the bottom line media ploy and political gambit: "I can shoot at you but you can't prove I did it so if you counter-attack you're the aggressor."

Childish? Welcome to the UN and the world of CNN.

Unfortunately, this game isn't Romper Room or cable news entertainment. The stakes in lives are high and with expansionary powers like Khomeinist Iran eventually the stakes include mass casualties.

The November 4 missile carried a conventional high explosive warhead. Short-range ballistic missiles like the one fired at Riyadh can carry "unconventional" chemical and nuclear warheads.

I am not suggesting Iran would be allowed to fight a "plausibly deniable" nuclear war by launching a nuclear attack using a proxy force in a third country, but the Iranian regime intends to acquire nuclear weapons and the ability to use them. History should damn the Obama Administration for appeasing the ayatollahs' nuclear demands and endless appetite for domination -- which is fodder for a future essay.

Iran routinely threatens Israel with nuclear attack, even though Iran currently lacks operational nuclear weapons, Saudi Arabia wasn't the only audience for Iran's Yemen-based missile. Iranian Lebanese Hezbollah proxies already attack Israel with battlefield missiles. Yemen is a potential launch site for missile attacks on Israel.

Which brings us to another feature of the escalating Saudi-Iran war -- Saudi Arabia's quasi-alliance with Israel.

In the past threats by Iran's dictatorship have given Saudi Arabia and Israel common cause. In 2010 media reported clandestine meetings between Saudi and Israeli intelligence officials in Amman, Jordan. That same year the London Times reported that Saudi Arabia had agreed to provide a "narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country" to allow an Israeli air attack Iranian nuclear facilities -- should the need ever arise.

At the time the Saudis denied the report, which made sense given Arab sensitivities. However, events since November 4 suggest that the Iranian threat has changed the Arab-Israeli political calculus. The Saudis are now calling Lebanese Hezbollah "the head of the snake" in Iran's imperialist expansion in the region. The Saudis contend Hezbollah wages war as an Iranian surrogate in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Bahrain.

Even more remarkable are reports that Saudi Arabia wants Palestine's Fatah movement to reach an accommodation with Israel. Why? Because the threat Iran presents to Gulf Arab states is deadly, and Israel has military capabilities that give Iran great pause.
 
Have Iranian Threats Spurred a Saudi-Israeli Alliance?

The Iranian-sponsored November 4 ballistic missile attack on Saudi Arabia's capital, Riyadh, continues to roil the Middle East -- and it should.

Last week, I wrote a column arguing that missile attack signaled an escalation in the simmering regional war between Sunni Muslim Saudi Arabia and Iran's Shia Islamic revolutionary regime. Their proxy war in Yemen would become more intense and could spread to the Persian Gulf littoral.

Since that column appeared, U.S. military sources have confirmed that the missile fired from Yemen by Iran-backed Houthi rebels was indeed manufactured in Iran. From its launch site to the point where it was intercepted by a U.S.-made Patriot anti-missile missile, the Iranian missile traveled almost 1,000 kilometers. Moreover, Saudi allegations that Iranian technicians were directly involved in preparing the missile and Iranian military advisers supervised the launch are now regarded as highly credible.

If these allegations are fully substantiated, we have an frightening but instructive example of a nation state (Iran) using a proxy force (Yemen's Houthis) to conduct a "plausibly deniable" ballistic missile attack on an enemy nation state (Saudi Arabia).

Illicit actors, like Iran's robed dictators, crave "plausible deniability," which in international affairs is loosely defined as creating an operational cover story that gives the illicit actors a media shield for denying "knowledge of or responsibility for" a particularly heinous and barbaric act.

Here's the bottom line media ploy and political gambit: "I can shoot at you but you can't prove I did it so if you counter-attack you're the aggressor."

Childish? Welcome to the UN and the world of CNN.

Unfortunately, this game isn't Romper Room or cable news entertainment. The stakes in lives are high and with expansionary powers like Khomeinist Iran eventually the stakes include mass casualties.

The November 4 missile carried a conventional high explosive warhead. Short-range ballistic missiles like the one fired at Riyadh can carry "unconventional" chemical and nuclear warheads.

I am not suggesting Iran would be allowed to fight a "plausibly deniable" nuclear war by launching a nuclear attack using a proxy force in a third country, but the Iranian regime intends to acquire nuclear weapons and the ability to use them. History should damn the Obama Administration for appeasing the ayatollahs' nuclear demands and endless appetite for domination -- which is fodder for a future essay.

Iran routinely threatens Israel with nuclear attack, even though Iran currently lacks operational nuclear weapons, Saudi Arabia wasn't the only audience for Iran's Yemen-based missile. Iranian Lebanese Hezbollah proxies already attack Israel with battlefield missiles. Yemen is a potential launch site for missile attacks on Israel.

Which brings us to another feature of the escalating Saudi-Iran war -- Saudi Arabia's quasi-alliance with Israel.

In the past threats by Iran's dictatorship have given Saudi Arabia and Israel common cause. In 2010 media reported clandestine meetings between Saudi and Israeli intelligence officials in Amman, Jordan. That same year the London Times reported that Saudi Arabia had agreed to provide a "narrow corridor of its airspace in the north of the country" to allow an Israeli air attack Iranian nuclear facilities -- should the need ever arise.

At the time the Saudis denied the report, which made sense given Arab sensitivities. However, events since November 4 suggest that the Iranian threat has changed the Arab-Israeli political calculus. The Saudis are now calling Lebanese Hezbollah "the head of the snake" in Iran's imperialist expansion in the region. The Saudis contend Hezbollah wages war as an Iranian surrogate in Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Bahrain.

Even more remarkable are reports that Saudi Arabia wants Palestine's Fatah movement to reach an accommodation with Israel. Why? Because the threat Iran presents to Gulf Arab states is deadly, and Israel has military capabilities that give Iran great pause.

Strategypage??....are you fu@king kidding me?,jesus christ you`d almost be better off posting/linking debkafile posts.
For those who dont know this strategypage is an infamous right wing blog that masquerades as some sort of serious/reputable "military site",which it most certainly is not.Indeed I used to take great delight in pointing out the numerous "errors" or indeed often outright falsehoods and lies in the comments sections of their posts.The @rsehats who run that site literally have no fu@king shame,but then thats what you would expect from pro right wing[alt-right],pro zionist muslim haters.
If you really want to have a good laugh check out this post,its basically the standard strategypage mixture of total bullsh!t,halftruths and a tiny little bit of truth,I mean check out the title ffs
Iran: Be My Bitch And I'll Make You Rich

https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/iran/20171101.aspx
 
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This Saudi prince has already explained the real scenario.
Talal bin Abdulaziz: Iran is capable of destroying our military power within 24 hours
 
Saudi Arabia is much richer, has better weapons, can hire a mercenary army, and has access to nuclear bombs.
 
Iraq or Kuwait should do some mediation between Suadis and Iranian to dissolve the situation . This region need peace to expose the people who has hidden agenda.
 

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