Iran Not to Forgive Perpetrators of Attack on Iran Air Flight 655

[Blue In Green]

I don't dispute that. Yes they can but so far it has been futile.

A good example was the recent warm up between Obama administration and Iran's government. There were constant phone calls between Zarif and Kerry on different occasions. Even Rohani's answering Obama's call was a bold move that later was criticized in Iran.

And what did we get in return? Current US administration demanding government change in Iran. Iran is the same Iran it was. Obama was an exception and now that he is gone, everything is business as usual.

Here is how I see it:

The world is a big pie which until we colonize other planets is not going to get any bigger. Up to a number of years ago, this pie was divided between world powers and was kind of stable, anyone happy with what they had. The middle east portion of the pie belonged to US.

Then, Iran decided it doesn't want to remain a piece of the pie anymore. I think this is where it all starts.

This is a geopolitical struggle between a nation who wants to increase its share of a pie and another nation who wants to hold on to what it had.

I really don't think change of actions (unless it is giving up our ambition) would change anything.

On the other hand, we don't have the same problem with some European countries. Italy, Germany and France are returning to Iran and are actually investing in Iran now. Because they don't look at Iran as a competition but US does.

Iran in the eyes of the Bankster/Jewish/Zionist/Arab oil (whatever group really lol) controlled US, was never supposed to be 100% sovereign. It was always supposed to be a quasi-independent vassal state. One that the US/UK/Israel could use at any time for a number of things ranging from spying on the Soviets (which they did) control of oil (which they did) a buffer against the Arabs (which they were) and so on and so forth.

 

[Arminkh]

Iran in the eyes of the Bankster/Jewish/Zionist/Arab oil (whatever group really lol) controlled US, was never supposed to be 100% sovereign. It was always supposed to be a quasi-independent vassal state. One that the US/UK/Israel could use at any time for a number of things ranging from spying on the Soviets (which they did) control of oil (which they did) a buffer against the Arabs (which they were) and so on and so forth.

That is exactly where the source of the conflict is. Any country that questions the uni polar or even bi polar world is not tolerated. Why Russia and US never get along? Ever since the fall of communism Russia has not really done anything but reacting to West crawling into its back yard. It is not the actions. It is the fact that Russia is a credible competition. So it needs to be contained as far as possible.

 

[Cthulhu]

The people who overthrew Mossadegh are long dead.

Iran helped Assad gassing his own people.

Thats the reason why i find this " death to america" so disgusting. You can hate the individual person who ordered or did something. You can never and under no way hate a nation. America (which is a continent btw) is a wonderful nation. USA is full of awesome people who do great things on a daily base.

No doubt that Iran like any other nation has great things and people. But as evry other nation Iran also has disgusting habits. One is this hateful speeches which wish death to others.

Let me clarify something, I'm a strict fan of "Live and let live" principle so i don't seek revenge for something that happened in the past cause i think no one can keep enmities for ever until the end of the time cause it just brings more bloodshed. In fact, one of my role models in life is American comedian George Carlin and in my opinion he by far is the best person that ever came out of U.S. and of his many great quotes and sayings, he said this about US and war.

So i personally don't have any problems with Americans, But their politicians and generals are a different story, for example look at this quote from Mad Dog Mattis: "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." Basically Mattis thinks you should have a plan to kill everyone you see while you have a smile on your face. I mean, this is a fvcked up mentality, he should be put in mental hospitals, If this guy was a Muslim, with a 99.9% chance he would have joined ISIS and started killing other human beings in Iraq and Syria. Or for example Congressman Rohrabacher who thinks that they should support ISIS when they kill Iranians. Now if somebody on this earth can get this "Live and let live" principle through American Politicians and Generals thick skulls into their empty brains, the world would be a better place.
BTW When it comes to "Death to America" slogan, I'm a big critic of it myself. This was the most childish slogan that they could come up with, It supposed to mean that "Death to America's government and policies and interventionism", Even recently the Supreme Leader of Iran tried to clarify that. But this slogan clearly doesn't work as it supposed to, basically it's an insult to 300 million people and they should stop it.

 

[mse21]

It is also not correct that Isreal's nuclear arsenal is ignored

we saw what happend for iran when even did not close to be a nuclear power. from economical sanctions up to medical in first stages (im a doctor and i dont need any wiki page or like that i saw with my eyes). and lots of other sanctions. im not politician but spend lots of times on it and i can understand double standards
what happend for isreal at the same?!
is there any country like iran which IAEA has every right to observe evrey part of its nuclear facilities?
without any actions this statement are just nothing

 

[Blue In Green]

we saw what happend for iran when even did not close to be a nuclear power. from economical sanctions up to medical in first stages (im a doctor and i dont need any wiki page or like that i saw with my eyes). and lots of other sanctions. im not politician but spend lots of times on it and i can understand double standards
what happend for isreal at the same?!
is there any country like iran which IAEA has every right to observe evrey part of its nuclear facilities?
without any actions this statement are just nothing

What do kind of medicine do you specialize in?

 

[mse21]

Iran helped Assad gassing his own people.

really?!
im here as a doctor. this war is so complicated and its not easy to talk about it like this.
do you know who said thats a chemical attack? dr shajul islam!!!!! a real moderate rebel who is responsible for many of crimes!! just search his name. and he is banned from treating
1.there is alots of claims before until Carla Del Ponte UN official said chemical attack was done most likely by rebels "2013 chem attak".
2. 2013 chem attak done in ghouta which is near the capital how stupid they are to use that in their cap.
3. there is a lots of news from kurds (a part of syria and US backed forces and of course a big enemy of turkey) which they said turkey gave rebels chemicals to use agianst kurds and of course there is some patients from kurds poisened by chems
3.they said its sarin and talked about smell and color if you just have small info about it you know what is sarin and its odorless colorless.
4. sarin more deadly than you guys think its horrible of course can absorb from skin and not to mention EYES and in that videos and pic those stupid rebels were without any protections!!!!!!!
5. Morphine overdose symptoms is just like sarin's
6. khan shaykhun was far from the fronts which rebbels attacked SAA and broke cease fire and they are not stupid like that to bombard far from fronts and they were about to wining the front. and even they libberated some other cities like "Taibat al imam". so how stupid they are
and lots of reasons and i dont have time to write them. that was just a false flag

1. it was italian build
2. it was not islamic

bad reasons
there is a lots of italian and also nonislamic build devices in iran they should destroy all of them!!!!
there is some other building from before that rev. like shah's palaces and many like that

 

[raptor22]

I´m aware of that. But what does it change?

Is Iran a democratic country? It is not. And a democracy barely can influnce such things like foreign politics. Do you honestly think an american worker thinks about Iran? It sees the Ayatollah with his "Death to Amerika" speeches and then hates Iran.

In the end you will need to find a way to forgive. Iran has much potential. But it cant achieve this when isolated.

Death to America is merely a political slogan chanted against hostile\wrong policies of the Gov. of the US at least since 1953 towards Iran and Iranians not against American people , you could go ask from American citizens whom ever traveled to Iran and l bet you that you would be shocked about the feedback of hospitality that Iranians offer to a tourist esp when they notice they are American.

Back in 2001 when terrorists attack happened in NY Iranian people gathered in the street lit candles and offer the condolences to American people and Iranian government was one of the first (before many American allies) that condemned terrorists attack and stated its readiness to help American in fight against terrorism , we helped them in Afghanistan to fight Taliban actually without Iran and its allies in this country American were not be able to take Kaboul ....

“Iran’s sympathetic response to the American tragedy has been exceptional for a country under US economic siege for two decades. Only hours after the Sept. 11 attack, President Muhammad Khatami condemned it, as did Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Other officials have sent sympathetic messages, including one from the mayor of Tehran to the mayor of New York – the first public official contact between Iran and the US since the 1979 Iranian revolution. […]

More important, 60,000 spectators observed a minute of silence during a soccer match in Iran’s Azadi Stadium, and hundreds of young Iranians held a candle-lit vigil in Tehran.”



​

And American response:

 

[mse21]

What do kind of medicine do you specialize in?

wrote that before!!
general physician

 

[mse21]

death to america

its down not death

 

[Stag112]

In the world of politics, an apology and an expression of regret are completely different things.

An apology is well, the standard definition of apology. It is an acknowledgement that the perpetrator is sorry for what has happened, and that what has happened was morally wrong. It usually signals that the perpetrator really has regretted what has happened, geopolitically of course.

An "expression of regret" is just another way to say that you don't actually care, but you have to say something to save your global image.

The US is a superpower. Even if its military vessel is in the territory of another vessel, and then proceeds to shoot down a civilian airliner killing all onboard... it doesn't matter. They don't care what the facts are. They are the superpower and they don't give a shit, they will do whatever they like and get away with it, without even an apology. This is the level of evil that Iran is dealing with.

While I agree with your general sentiment about the issue, you are ignoring that actions speak louder than words. They paid compensation. So that was a victory of Iran's stand to a great extent.

 

[AmirPatriot]

While I agree with your general sentiment about the issue, you are ignoring that actions speak louder than words. They paid compensation. So that was a victory of Iran's stand to a great extent.

...without accepting legal responsibility.

They killed 290 people and got off with a fine basically, like a big parking ticket or something. I wonder what is the largest number of people by a murderer who only gets fined afterwards.

 

[Stag112]

...without accepting legal responsibility.

They killed 290 people and got off with a fine basically, like a big parking ticket or something. I wonder what is the largest number of people by a murderer who only gets fined afterwards.

Who paid those killed in shooting down of the Malaysian plane? That's right nobody accepted responsibility for the mistake.

Legal responsibility bit is purely a technical legal standard clause in all settlements. It means the settlement itself can not be held as an admission of guilt for any further legal action.

No compensation or regret brings back your people. No apology does either. If Iranians feel an apology will bring closure, then Americans should have offered it.

 

[SALMAN F]

The US already apologized and payed money for the victims

 

[AmirPatriot]

Who paid those killed in shooting down of the Malaysian plane? That's right nobody accepted responsibility for the mistake.

That's because MH17 was and is disputed over who shot it down. There was no territories involved in IR655, and the US could be proved wrong with radio recordings anyway. There is also a BBC documentary about IR655 that included footage taken from IR655 at the time of the shooting, so there is video evidence of the launching of the missiles and the crew celebrating.

They also didn't accept responsibility, that's the key thing, but they acknowledged that they did it.

No compensation or regret brings back your people. No apology does either. If Iranians feel an apology will bring closure, then Americans should have offered it.

Well this isn't a great logic in my opinion, if we were to go by this then we would let murderers and rapists walk free by just paying a fine. There has to be justice. Look what America did to the USSR over KAL007 and compare it with IR655.

The US already apologized

No, they didn't.

 

[Stag112]

That's because MH17 was and is disputed over who shot it down. There was no territories involved in IR655, and the US could be proved wrong with radio recordings anyway. There is also a BBC documentary about IR655 that included footage taken from IR655 at the time of the shooting, so there is video evidence of the launching of the missiles and the crew celebrating.

They also didn't accept responsibility, that's the key thing, but they acknowledged that they did it.



Well this isn't a great logic in my opinion, if we were to go by this then we would let murderers and rapists walk free by just paying a fine. There has to be justice. Look what America did to the USSR over KAL007 and compare it with IR655.



No, they didn't.

I am going to withdraw from this discussion as I do not see how I can contribute constructively about an emotional matter concerning two foreign countries. I wish the Iranian people get full justice and closure on the matter.