Iqbal and the Vision of True Pakistan | PKKH.tv

[Icarus]

That, Sir, is merely one small symptom of the underlying rot that pervades Pakistani society widely and deeply, and also why I asked the question: On what premise is the writer basing his "hope" on, exactly?

It's an intellectual bankruptcy that prevails over the country. Everyone thinks that they are smarter than they are and in the process, end up making bigger fools of themselves than they actually are. I was disgusted to no end yesterday when I saw people posting below Malala Yousafzai's pictures, most comments were negative and some I found incredibly hurtful said that she deserved to die, she was a traitor, an agent of America and that she would go to hell. I'm pretty sure she never chose to be shot in the face and her shooters never thought that she would go on to become the villain. The shooter's motive was left unfinished when she survived the attack but we actually gave them more than they could have ever expected, we disgraced our hero.

 

[VCheng]

It's an intellectual bankruptcy that prevails over the country. Everyone thinks that they are smarter than they are and in the process, end up making bigger fools of themselves than they actually are. I was disgusted to no end yesterday when I saw people posting below Malala Yousafzai's pictures, most comments were negative and some I found incredibly hurtful said that she deserved to die, she was a traitor, an agent of America and that she would go to hell. I'm pretty sure she never chose to be shot in the face and her shooters never thought that she would go on to become the villain. The shooter's motive was left unfinished when she survived the attack but we actually gave them more than they could have ever expected, we disgraced our hero.

Sir, thank you for saying that. As Chair of TT, you can say that, but I will be vilified once again if I speak the same truths as you do. (I do agree 100%.)

Back to the article, I think it is the same old ineffective rhetoric that achieves nothing in reality, as it has failed for the last 65 years, and likely will continue to fail.

 

[Armstrong]

The writer, and I, both accept that the previous generations have failed to deliver. My question to the writer, and to you and others here, is upon what can one base any hope that the new generation will deliver?

Because if we don't no one else will ! That realization has sunk in more dearly than anyone can imagine; you would never find a youth in our history being as politically self-aware as the one found in Pakistan right now. There is buzz & talk of change, of breaking out of the system in our homes, our streets, our public transports...all around us. We may yet have finally broken out of the stupor for those of us left here find themselves in the loop without ever trying to because the country around us is falling apart ! You will never hear as much condemnation of religious fanaticism as you do now by the common man, you will never hear about emulating some of the better systems of governance out there as you do now by, again, the same common man. Yes there are dissenting voices...yes there are religious fanatics within our ranks & they are enough to cause us worry day & night but this new found 'self-awareness' that we find ourselves in makes is that much more difficult for our leaders & our bureaucracy to rip us off ! In such a circumstance one of two things will happen - A bloody reprisal (I won't call it a revolution) or we might see the democratic process continued till some semblance of a level of maturity is achieved for the people to vote for the right party (like India).

 

[Icarus]

Sir, thank you for saying that. As Chair of TT, you can say that, but I will be vilified once again if I speak the same truths as you do. (I do agree 100%.)

Back to the article, I think it is the same old ineffective rhetoric that achieves nothing in reality, as it has failed for the last 65 years, and likely will continue to fail.

You think too much of consequences, I too have been called an American/Israeli slave for my beliefs and have been threatened with death over the internet........That hardly hinders me from speaking my mind.

As for the article, for the country to actually make any headway, the people have to step up and take responsibility for their actions as an individual and also as a collective group. I will give you an example, people often complain about how military run areas are clean and well maintained and they relate that to the Army getting "80% of the Budget" and "American Aid" but the truth is that everyone in those areas is mindful of their actions. There are traffic lights in Kharian that were installed when the cantt was made in 1954, except for the bulbs which need to be changed from time to time, the entire thing remains in the same condition as it was in 1954. Flash forward to August 2011 when the CDA finally installs new solar powered, LED traffic lights in Islamabad, a year on after the various riots that swept through the city, only a handful remain intact, most have been shattered and ruined beyond repair. This sense of responsibility needs to be instilled in the people and they need to be given a higher purpose to work towards, that I don't see happening any time soon, I know it's almost cruel but I wait for a Stalin or a Mao to come to power in Pakistan, there shall be bloodshed, but only an iron fist can set this nation straight.

I am very sure you will not agree with my love for dictators but these are the men that mould dilapidated masses into nations!

 

[Leader]

Iqbal, was and was not intersted in women's rights.

He has clearly mentioned that.

On Topic:

Can there be a Sticky on Iqbal only ?

I cannot say for sure but his philosophy is reformist and through his poetry he tried to promote renaissance of the muslims, I think in this context.

 

[neokautilya2]

i thought the article wud be really thoughtprovoking but as i saw the words like, secularism is the biggest threat.

i stopped reading it

with only 5% or less minority, u are finding it hard to survive wid secularism

i dont know how iqbal has been projected him but while singing his song during independence day , i always felt he was not against the idea of india

 

[neokautilya2]

sāre jahāñ se acchā hindostāñ hamārā
ham bulbuleñ haiñ us kī vuh gulsitāñ[10] hamārā

ġhurbat meñ hoñ agar ham, rahtā hai dil vat̤an meñ
samjho vuhīñ hameñ bhī dil ho jahāñ hamārā

parbat vuh sab se ūñchā, hamsāyah āsmāñ kā
vuh santarī hamārā, vuh pāsbāñ hamārā

godī meñ kheltī haiñ us kī hazāroñ nadiyāñ
gulshan hai jin ke dam se rashk-e janāñ hamārā

ay āb-rūd-e gangā! vuh din haiñ yād tujh ko?
utarā tire[11] kināre jab kāravāñ hamārā

mażhab nahīñ sikhātā āpas meñ bair rakhnā
hindī haiñ ham, vat̤an hai hindostāñ hamārā

yūnān-o-miṣr-o-rumā[12] sab miṭ gaʾe jahāñ se
ab tak magar hai bāqī nām-o-nishāñ hamārā

kuchh bāt hai kih hastī miṭtī nahīñ hamārī
sadiyoñ rahā hai dushman daur-e zamāñ hamārā

iqbāl! koʾī maḥram apnā nahīñ jahāñ meñ
maʿlūm kyā kisī ko dard-e nihāñ hamārā!

see what he wrote about india

i do not feel that he wud have ever sincerely felt the need for giving two nation theory

( considering his brahmin lineage, he wud be the last person to consider himself from some other place)

 

[Icarus]

sāre jahāñ se acchā hindostāñ hamārā
ham bulbuleñ haiñ us kī vuh gulsitāñ[10] hamārā

ġhurbat meñ hoñ agar ham, rahtā hai dil vat̤an meñ
samjho vuhīñ hameñ bhī dil ho jahāñ hamārā

parbat vuh sab se ūñchā, hamsāyah āsmāñ kā
vuh santarī hamārā, vuh pāsbāñ hamārā

godī meñ kheltī haiñ us kī hazāroñ nadiyāñ
gulshan hai jin ke dam se rashk-e janāñ hamārā

ay āb-rūd-e gangā! vuh din haiñ yād tujh ko?
utarā tire[11] kināre jab kāravāñ hamārā

mażhab nahīñ sikhātā āpas meñ bair rakhnā
hindī haiñ ham, vat̤an hai hindostāñ hamārā

yūnān-o-miṣr-o-rumā[12] sab miṭ gaʾe jahāñ se
ab tak magar hai bāqī nām-o-nishāñ hamārā

kuchh bāt hai kih hastī miṭtī nahīñ hamārī
sadiyoñ rahā hai dushman daur-e zamāñ hamārā

iqbāl! koʾī maḥram apnā nahīñ jahāñ meñ
maʿlūm kyā kisī ko dard-e nihāñ hamārā!

see what he wrote about india

i do not feel that he wud have ever sincerely felt the need for giving two nation theory

( considering his brahmin lineage, he wud be the last person to consider himself from some other place)

The Quaid had also not consented to partition until 1940. Many muslim leaders had started feeling disenfranchised when the Congress Government started taking muslims for granted and started treating muslims as the sole perpetrators of the 1857 War of Independence, a stance earlier maintained by the British.

 

[neokautilya2]

The Quaid had also not consented to partition until 1940. Many muslim leaders had started feeling disenfranchised when the Congress Government started taking muslims for granted and started treating muslims as the sole perpetrators of the 1857 War of Independence, a stance earlier maintained by the British.

IMO partition was bound to happen

but i dont feel iqbal was the primemover of this thought

 

[Armstrong]

IMO partition was bound to happen

but i dont feel iqbal was the primemover of this thought

Listen yaar we get tired of explaining our narrative over & over again ! Please do us both a favor & go through some of the earlier threads on this (use the search button for that).

P.S Go through this thread : http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...poet-mohammed-iqbal-remains-pariah-india.html (In post # 15 I posted two of Iqbal letters highlighting his advocacy of the Two Nation Theory, the Shariah, his admiration for the Quaid & finally the call for a federation of Muslim Provinces be formed where we could have our own laws & develop Muslim Civilization as we saw it fit...something which later culminated in Pakistan)

 

[neokautilya2]

Listen yaar we get tired of explaining our narrative over & over again ! Please do us both a favor & go through some of the earlier threads on this (use the search button for that).

P.S Go through this thread : http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...poet-mohammed-iqbal-remains-pariah-india.html (In post # 15 I posted two of Iqbal letters highlighting his advocacy of the Two Nation Theory, the Shariah, his admiration for the Quaid & finally the call for a federation of Muslim Provinces be formed where we could have our own laws & develop Muslim Civilization as we saw it fit...something which later culminated in Pakistan)

will surely have a look.