IPKF sent without asking army

[Sashan]

I didn't like Vaiko going to Yaazhpanam and Karunanidhi not going to see injured Indian soldiers in Chennai.

It is as if they were the villains in the conflict.

PS: My friend's uncle lost his leg just like how mammoty does in Kandukondain.

Vaiko was sponsored by LTTE as they wanted an alternate power within DMK as Prabhakaran did not like Karunanidhi and vice versa as Karunanidhi was interested in only being the chief rep of Tamilians across the globe.

Karunanidhi not going to see IPKF was an idiotic blunder and stupidity at best. He is a traitor to everyone including the country,tamil people, pimp to the lowest grade who is not interested in anyone's welfare except his and his family.

But having stated that, these idiots did not realize the bigger conspiracy and not the primary villains as they were not making decisions or influencing decisions.

The villains were the diplomats, politicians at the center and the leaks like Unnikrishnan.

 

[bronxbull]

Yeah Vaiko was a useful idiot,i suppose.

Lot of people love cuz of the way he talks but kalingathupatti is very close to my village where him and peter alphonse run a huge land mafia.

 

[Abingdonboy]

It's basically just a reflection of the failure of integration between civilian and military leadership- the civilians are rather ignorant about military matters and as such don't go about these things in a correct matter. In most Western democracies top military brass have a postion in the national security teams/committees of their nations and I think this has only recently started to happen in India. For a log time this sort of integration was ignored in India as there was no real interest amongst the political class to concern themselves in military matters. Things are certainly different today and moving foreword should get better on this front.

India as a nation is, IMHO, getting militarised just like many other Western nations. This is a good thing for india IMHO.

 

[Sergi]

You are too naive to talk about this.

I dont think this is worth a reply. Dnt get personal. Just reply with facts. Thats it.

Go read the journals of Col Anil Kaul who lost his left eye in the conflict and how haphazard the decision making was,it is the army which does the job on the ground,not the fat bureacucrats and analysts.

i am bored replying same question why dont you read my previous comments to other members before shooting same question again and again. And you will find I have said the same thing. What to do - GOI How to do - Army.

If you dont give the Army a technical opinion,u get screwed like the IPKF did.

Again come out of la la land and show me where is the provision for it in indian scenario. They had and they will get only orders. May be some time opnion on situtationss

Do you how many many IPKF soldiers died and got maimed forever due to silly bureaucrats making decisions for India and please man,dont open your mouth like a bureaucrat on anything and everything.

so you want army to make decisions do you ???
Let me tell you the biggest hater of bureaucracy was Mr. J Nehru who was so determined to broke that structure. Within months taking his office he changed his opinion and and let the structure continue. Now people like you who hate bureaucracy for whatever reason must be knowing something he didn't.
My problem with bureaucracy is only red tapism.

yes it is u moron,

showing bravado on internet , natural. Calling others moron dont make you smart@ss , dum@sss.

u cant ask ur wife to make dinner for 10 people without checking if there are enough provisions
dumbass,army is not a weapon,army is people,army is fighting against guerilla warfare.

go to Pakistan there is Army is husband. You will be more than satisfied. Don't comment on the things which you don't understand. Ever heard of the tools of democracy ???

it was not a mission with a few commandoes,it was a cocked up pseudo operation which ultimately claimed Rajiv's life and changed the geo politics of the region for good and worse.

Who you are to judge that ??? Or who am Ito judge that ???

As I said before nothing happens because you or I want it to happen.

And if you cant continue talking like a normal human being just don't quote me. I dont have time for your mental emotional bravado. Quote me if you have something concrete to say with least something to backup. Otherwise quote your like minded and do whatever you want.

 

[bronxbull]

Mr.Sergi,

Talking theoretically what is right and wrong wont work.The army has its logistics and they know what is possible and not possible,as long dumb asses like u exist things ll get worse,which am sure of.

When everyone agrees that something is possible then the call is the government's to make whether to go ahead or not,but without looking into the feasibility of things,if the govt or here specifically Rajiv orders something as stupid as this,the consequences are extremely bad.

You can continue with your silly liberal arts discussion,but the army has slap the bureaucrats if they even suggest anything silly.

It is also time we had a general as a defence secretary instead of a babu.

 

[Sergi]

Mr.Sergi,

Talking theoretically what is right and wrong wont work.The army has its logistics and they know what is possible and not possible,as long dumb asses like u exist things ll get worse,which am sure of.

When everyone agrees that something is possible then the call is the government's to make whether to go ahead or not,but without looking into the feasibility of things,if the govt or here specifically Rajiv orders something as stupid as this,the consequences are extremely bad.

You can continue with your silly liberal arts discussion,but the army has slap the bureaucrats if they even suggest anything silly.

It is also time we had a general as a defence secretary instead of a babu.

Listen Dum@ss ( as you understand your own language ) I am not talking any theory here. If there are any brain cells remaining try and read my posts again.
next time when something like Kargil will happen then Tell that to invading army to hold as IA is getting ready as PMO hasn't discussed it with them.
I really dont understand what moronic people are
Just try to inderstand I am not suggesting or imagining anything. I am wrting what the procedure is. And every nutjob here is trying to attack me !!! I am not the one who made it.
Grow the balls and go tell the parliament or PMO that its wrong.

What all you guies are suggesting is your image of ideal world. Wake up. It doesn't exists.
And change the mentality of attacking messenger.
Again , Learn how to have civilise discussion. Or just don't bother me for your emotional problems.

 

[bronxbull]

In life there is something called discretion and you try read up and see who is living in fantasy world?

In kargil also,the Army gets to know first when the peaks are occupied.

IPKF & Kargil are not the same.

what are u talking about as if u r the pragmatic guy here?

The army has to be allowed to veto stuff,there is no point fighting something we should not be and are ill equipped to do so.

what a numbskull u r,why dont u read up and figure why people r calling u names?

procedures have to be followed only when they make sense,running an army operation under the orders of a diplomat in colombo is sheer stupidity.

Someone here said how the diplomat asked them to kill prabhakaran in the back,that is so not cool at all.

These army men fight each other all the time and u cant make it a barbaric contest just because some moronic babu demands so.

The babu has to stop at a strategic level,tactically it is the army which has to decide how to go ahead.

If u want to assasinate prabhakaran,u do so with Raw agents not with the Indian army.

 

[Sergi]

In life there is something called discretion and you try read up and see who is living in fantasy world?

In kargil also,the Army gets to know first when the peaks are occupied.

IPKF & Kargil are not the same.

what are u talking about as if u r the pragmatic guy here?

The army has to be allowed to veto stuff,there is no point fighting something we should not be and are ill equipped to do so.

what a numbskull u r,why dont u read up and figure why people r calling u names?

procedures have to be followed only when they make sense,running an army operation under the orders of a diplomat in colombo is sheer stupidity.

Someone here said how the diplomat asked them to kill prabhakaran in the back,that is so not cool at all.

These army men fight each other all the time and u cant make it a barbaric contest just because some moronic babu demands so.

The babu has to stop at a strategic level,tactically it is the army which has to decide how to go ahead.

If u want to assasinate prabhakaran,u do so with Raw agents not with the Indian army.

Whatever that makes you and your online need for attention desires.
As you really don't have any capacity to understand , discuss , reply or even to quote properly
I am done with it
If you ever learn how to have civilised discussion we will see about that.

 

[bronxbull]

okay,let me make it very simple.

The army fights on the ground,it needs certain things.

Apart from food/medicines/logistics/maps/intelligence etc etc.

The locals there speak Tamil,they dont understand Hindi.

The Army's mission is not clear,the orders come from a diplomat.

They are clueless in Jaffna and they are fighting the guerilla force of LTTE and also the Sinhalese Army.

The purpose of their mission is very fuzzy and they can't even go attack anyone.

so a babu cant think of these consequences and hence the army has to be the decision maker here,regardless of procedure.

is it clear now?

 

[Sergi]

okay,let me make it very simple.

The army fights on the ground,it needs certain things.

Apart from food/medicines/logistics/maps/intelligence etc etc.

The locals there speak Tamil,they dont understand Hindi.

The Army's mission is not clear,the orders come from a diplomat.

They are clueless in Jaffna and they are fighting the guerilla force of LTTE and also the Sinhalese Army.

The purpose of their mission is very fuzzy and they can't even go attack anyone.

so a babu cant think of these consequences and hence the army has to be the decision maker here,regardless of procedure.

is it clear now?

If you remain in civilised lines. I will reply to your every question.

Thats the problem I am telling you. It doesn't matter now what happened there and why !!! What you are suggesting is in my second post which you clearly didn't read.

I am not against GOI consulting Army or forces in general.
What I am trying to tell all you people there is no mechanism ( JSC !!! ) or procedure to do that. Its a fact and not my guess. There is NO compulsion on GOI to do that.

Army is supposed to prepared to all conditions and contingencies. issue isn't about what happened in Lanka. Whatever results are it govt's responsibility. Nobody blame IA fir that. All blame Rajiv , didnt we ??? Same is the case of 62 with Nehru.
Similarly the credit for BD war is given to Indira. Get the point ???

 

[bronxbull]

The government runs the army and if it wants the job well done,it has to consult the army.

sitting in delhi and taking decisions is not happening.

 

[Sergi]

The government runs the army and if it wants the job well done,it has to consult the army.

sitting in delhi and taking decisions is not happening.

Exactly thats what happen !!!
Now you should ask why is that happening ???
Politics is all about gain and loss. More precisely "overall more gain with less loss".

Here many people including you are thinking GOI had made a big mistake by not consulting IA and sending them in hurry. Lets agree with this Army ( or Gereral's ) point of view.
Lets say after cabinate decision PM asked army to get ready peace keeping force. Where COAS asked him for time ( in real we didnt know that he did or not )
Say PM give him 2/3 months of time.

So what the signal GOI might have sent to Lankan govt by telling them yes we are sending a peace-keeping force just give us 2 months ???
Now its fine by you and others. But PMO has to think beyond that. What if Lankan govt would have approched US or any other power for that which can deploy their forces within weeks if not days ???
PMo has to calulate that too. Having UN force or unfriendly force at our gates for what reason !!!

If you remember even the Chinese presence in last days of LTTE didnt go well with GOI.
Govt work on many dimentions. They calculate gain. After all you like it or not army is called a asset. And assets produce gain.

And still there are many things I cant write here.

 

[bronxbull]

There was no US/Chinese presence in those days.

They could have choked the LTTE by cutting off supply routes in TamilNadu.
I am saying Rajiv should have talked to the Army before talking to the Lankan PM instead of assuming things by himself and acting like a hero.

What happened,he died like a dog.

 

[Sergi]

There was no US/Chinese presence in those days.

They could have choked the LTTE by cutting off supply routes in TamilNadu.
I am saying Rajiv should have talked to the Army before talking to the Lankan PM instead of assuming things by himself and acting like a hero.

What happened,he died like a dog.

Again what with language man !!!
Why call an Indian PM a dog ??? Even I don't like him but I will not use such language.

No US presence !!! What make you think that ??? If US could send a CBG to help Pak just to keep their interest safe in our region they certainly wont have missed another opportunity for new hold.

And anyways UN would have sent UN peacekeeping force on the request of Lankan govt , how hard was that ???

Let me be clear here it was Lankan govt who asked for peace keeping force and Not indian govt offered it first. So all choices PM had were "Yes" or "No". He choose Yes and remaining is open book.
Rajiv was assassinated because LTTE leadership was sure if took office again he will send back the IPKF and that would have been major blow to them.

 

[bronxbull]

I am not calling him a dog but u see how he died,he was as much responsible for his death as much as the killers.

UN PKF is a random thing and again,it would be a problem to internationalize the situation.