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Interview with S.A.R. Geelani. :‘Only fringe elements wanted him hanged’

doublemaster

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In the Parliament House attack case, the trial court sentenced Professor S.A.R. Geelani to death, but the Supreme Court acquitted him. Geelani, who teaches Arabic at Delhi University, was the only person outside the jail whom Afzal Guru trusted and could meet frequently. Excerpts from the interview he gave Frontline.

To begin with, what is your reaction to the secret hanging of Afzal?

The secret hanging of Afzal was atrocious. It is a sad day for the people of Kashmir. It is inhuman that a person is being sent to the gallows without even giving him a chance to meet his family. His little son was not allowed to meet his father for one last time before his death.

On the night of February 8, I got a whiff of something that was going on inside the Tihar jail through alerts from some journalists. But it was not as if some untoward activity was taking place. It was not necessarily about Afzal. On February 9, early in the morning, around 5-30 or 6 a.m., I got a call from Srinagar that very strict curfew had been imposed. One of my friends said that he had asked the CRPF [Central Reserve Police Force] personnel on duty when they were chasing people away, and they said: “Afzal gaya” [Afzal is gone]. That was the first confirmation I got. Then, I called Afzal’s wife. When I asked her whether she had any information about it, she was shocked. I said I just wanted to confirm as there were rumours. I asked her whether she was informed about it. She said she was not. Then I asked her to talk to Afzal’s brother and other family members. She got back to me saying none of them had been told about it.

When Ajmal Kasab was hanged secretly on November 21 last year, many had a hunch that a similar fate awaited Afzal. Why was it not possible for close friends of Afzal like you to try and seek the intervention of the court to pre-empt it?

I discussed this with Afzal. There were other lawyers who were thinking of approaching the courts. Afzal thought that this would not happen to him because death-row prisoners like [Devender Pal Singh] Bhullar and the convicts in the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case had challenged the rejection of their mercy petitions on the grounds of delay, and their petitions were pending in the Supreme Court. I asked him whether they could file a petition in the Supreme Court in this regard. He was thinking over it. But he was utterly disappointed with the kind of treatment he was getting from the courts. He thought it was of no use, and he did not want to be disrespected in the courts.

The trial court pronounced us guilty [in its oral observations] even six months before the charge sheets were filed in the case. The very first day we were in the Special Court, the judge called us guilty. The judge told one of the accused, who was crying that day, that she should have thought about all this before conspiring to attack Parliament. He said this when he was not even aware of the charges that might be mentioned in the charge sheet. Neeraj Bansal continued as Afzal’s lawyer even after Afzal expressed no confidence in him, and Bansal himself did not want to represent him in the trial court.

If Afzal had no confidence in the judiciary, how did he agree to consider your proposal to approach the Supreme Court to pre-empt a Kasab-like hanging?

I talked to him about this in January. To file a petition, we needed his signature. We could have got his wife’s signature, but I did not want to do anything without his consent. I talked to Ram Jethmalani [the eminent lawyer] about it. He agreed to represent him. After that, I approached Afzal. I had given him a vakalatnama also when I met him first in January first week. After that I met him again on January 11. That was my last meeting.

That day he was very upset with an article about him he had read in a Kashmiri weekly. He thought it was a distortion. I haven’t read it. I did not ask him about the contents because I did not want to hurt him.

Was he confused?

No, he was not confused. He did not think that the government would act in a cruel manner and hang him without even informing his family. He might have thought that they would inform his family at least two or three days before his hanging so that they would have the time to come to Delhi to meet him. He thought that they would not hang him secretly. I had explained to him, and given the vakalatnama, because I anticipated it during the meeting which took place prior to January 11. During the last few meetings, I was trying to concentrate on the petition [to seek the intervention of the court to stop secret hanging]. I had almost convinced him about it.

On January 11, I had gone with the hope that he might have got the vakalatnama and other things. But that day he was so upset he did not come with the vakalatnama. He was unhappy that human rights activists in India had such a view about him [as mentioned in that article in the Kashmiri weekly]. So I told him to think about it [the petition].

But there was a petition pending in the Supreme Court regarding his plea for transfer to the Central jail in Srinagar. First, he wrote to the Delhi government requesting transfer. The Delhi government then replied that the J&K government had not given its consent. When Kasab’s hanging took place, [J&K Chief Minister] Omar Abdullah had tweeted that other matters could be similarly dealt with secretly. He was referring to Afzal. He was suggesting it. Now he says he was not aware of it. If Afzal had given the consent [to file a petition] we could have delayed his hanging at least till the Supreme Court gave its verdict in the delay matter. We could have easily done that.

Afzal was so truthful about the evidence. When his lawyer suggested during the trial that Afzal did not go with Mohammad [the terrorist who was killed in the Parliament House attack] to buy the car [used in the attack], he intervened and said he went. He said he didn’t know why he was purchasing the car. He said he was introduced to him as a citizen of Kashmir from Doda and that he was told to take him to Delhi [by a Special Task Force official]. He could have easily denied it. Though the procedure was followed, the whole process was flawed completely. The facts were brought to the knowledge of the courts, but they never looked into them. The Supreme Court said very clearly that it is not law which requires him to hang, but it is the sentiments, the collective conscience of the nation.

I haven’t seen people of the country going after his blood. It is only the fringe elements which wanted him hanged. I am amazed that the people running this huge country have such a narrow vision and cannot think beyond the 2014 elections.

‘Only fringe elements wanted him hanged’
 
The fact that SAR Geelani who himself was acquitted by the court giving him the benefit of doubt accuses the same courts of being biased should rank high on the irony quotient.



Atleast we have voices even for the people whom rest of the India consider as terrorist.

Do you personally feel Afzal guru was a terrorist or not ?
 
The fact that SAR Geelani who himself was acquitted by the court giving him the benefit of doubt accuses the same courts of being biased should rank high on the irony quotient.





Do you personally feel Afzal guru was a terrorist or not ?

I have not come to any conclusion yet about him. But i do feel that he is innocent. Even just before his death he said he was dragged on to this. Strange thing is another person who was convicted is realeased because of his "Good" behavior in jail!!".

Now about Geelani, You said benifit of doubt? brother you have not read anything about his case. I think it is available online just try.

There was not a single proof against Geelani, but like he said what he could do when police makes entire episode sensationalize? What he can do when judge pronounces verdict even before the trial begins?

Police arranged a confession by afzal to TV media, Where he says Geelani is innocent, He has nothing to do with the case. (Probably police did not make him prepare for question!). Do you know what happened after that? Police shouts and scold him, and REQUESTS all the media person not to air this part of confession..! They asked to edit the confession!! Fine what media did? They just obeyed....They dint ask any questions with police, They dint stop showing geelani as terrorists.

But, geelani was lucky some how Aaj Tak ( as i remember) aired this after 100 days of parliament attack..

This was the major contribution to Geelani Release (not doubt). (Later that Aaj Tak reporter appeared in court as witness for geelani).

Funniest part of the whole story is, According to police Geelani was mater mind, he helped to nail Afzal.... But Geelani released afzal hanged (Because "society wanted" it!!)

@KS: I request you to keep all your anger and emotions aside and just re-vistit the case once. May be we have a discussion about it here.
 
I have not come to any conclusion yet about him. But i do feel that he is innocent..
With people like You in the country Who need enemies. :hitwall:

Secretly on the inside, I bet you would be happy that 16 Indians got blown to smithereens in Hyderabad two days ago. After all "Islam khatrey mein hai..Afzal ki maut ka badla le liya". :rolleyes:
 
I have not come to any conclusion yet about him. But i do feel that he is innocent. Even just before his death he said he was dragged on to this. Strange thing is another person who was convicted is realeased because of his "Good" behavior in jail!!".

Now about Geelani, You said benifit of doubt? brother you have not read anything about his case. I think it is available online just try.

There was not a single proof against Geelani, but like he said what he could do when police makes entire episode sensationalize? What he can do when judge pronounces verdict even before the trial begins?

Police arranged a confession by afzal to TV media, Where he says Geelani is innocent, He has nothing to do with the case. (Probably police did not make him prepare for question!). Do you know what happened after that? Police shouts and scold him, and REQUESTS all the media person not to air this part of confession..! They asked to edit the confession!! Fine what media did? They just obeyed....They dint ask any questions with police, They dint stop showing geelani as terrorists.

But, geelani was lucky some how Aaj Tak ( as i remember) aired this after 100 days of parliament attack..

This was the major contribution to Geelani Release (not doubt). (Later that Aaj Tak reporter appeared in court as witness for geelani).

Funniest part of the whole story is, According to police Geelani was mater mind, he helped to nail Afzal.... But Geelani released afzal hanged (Because "society wanted" it!!)

@KS: I request you to keep all your anger and emotions aside and just re-vistit the case once. May be we have a discussion about it here.

I have seen the tit-for-tat debate from both sides after this hanging and I am convinced that he is a terrorist. Why ? For the simple fact the learned judges of the local and supreme court are much more knowledeable in this issue and no one, not a single soul who is debating would have read all those 1000s of pages of judgement which was pronounced after examining tons and tons of evidences.

You need to be open in your mind about the possibility of Afzal being a terrorist (actually he was a former militant who was now doing business) Anyway this article by Praveen Swami is good one to start with. Now you might be knowing that Praveen Swami is not the one who you could accuse of "Hindutva" which makes it all the more strong in your case.

Coming to SAR Geelani, do you even know that the police submitted as evidence his taped phone call with Shaukat and Afzal, but the court did not take that into account on two counts - that the police did not get warrant for tapping the call and that there was not 'enough' ground to admit that.

In normal circumstances this incriminating evidence would have been enough to send him to jail atleast for some years..but the court gave the benefit of doubt to him and acquitted him.

Read this - www.outlookindia.com |

----

As for your opinion of Afzal being innocent, I thought so.


And its funny that you would believe he is innocent just because "he said so" inspite of the extensive trial he was given and two courts have found him guilty including the supreme court, but would continue harping Modi is a criminal without a single case against him. I'm speechless.
 
I have seen the tit-for-tat debate from both sides after this hanging and I am convinced that he is a terrorist. Why ? For the simple fact the learned judges of the local and supreme court are much more knowledeable in this issue and no one, not a single soul who is debating would have read all those 1000s of pages of judgement which was pronounced after examining tons and tons of evidences.

You need to be open in your mind about the possibility of Afzal being a terrorist (actually he was a former militant who was now doing business) Anyway this article by Praveen Swami is good one to start with. Now you might be knowing that Praveen Swami is not the one who you could accuse of "Hindutva" which makes it all the more strong in your case.

Coming to SAR Geelani, do you even know that the police submitted as evidence his taped phone call with Shaukat and Afzal, but the court did not take that into account on two counts - that the police did not get warrant for tapping the call and that there was not 'enough' ground to admit that.

In normal circumstances this incriminating evidence would have been enough to send him to jail atleast for some years..but the court gave the benefit of doubt to him and acquitted him.

Read this - www.outlookindia.com |

----

As for your opinion of Afzal being innocent, I thought so.


And its funny that you would believe he is innocent just because "he said so" inspite of the extensive trial he was given and two courts have found him guilty including the supreme court, but would continue harping Modi is a criminal without a single case against him. I'm speechless.

I had read both of your link even before you have posted it. Read the comments of the article of Praveen swami which has answers. His article looks silly to me, which selects only few points from arundhati roys article. She has written plenty about it. (In fact many other). Even i dont consider few argument from her as suitable to claim afzal innocent.

About the judgement (outline link) only evidence police has is that call voice record, You read it again it was rejected not because it was taken illegally but it is because court did not consider police version of translation.

Caller: (Brother of Gilani) What has happened?
Receiver: (Gilani) What, in Delhi?
Caller: What has happened in Delhi?
Receiver: Ha! Ha! Ha! (laughing)
Caller: Relax now.
Receiver: Ha! Ha! Ha!, O.K. Where are you in Srinagar?.

Does this piece of record tell us that he is involved? In any ways? You take this to any court in the world, it will not be accepted. Or you ask this to any thrid person.

Now, You can say that he would have made fun about the incident. Yes i do agree that. In fact many activists who supported him even explicitly stated that. But this doesnt say that he is involved.

Lastly, If this call tells he knows about the plan, then surely a caller also knows. But he wasnt arrested...why?

You did not comment any thing about afzal media confession incident. Dont you think that itself is enough to say the behavior of police?. .


There are so many things i can ask and tell you, But another most important question i would like to ask

On what basis person gets death penalty? Is it because law demands it for certain crime or society wants it? Is it correct to hang a person because society wants it?


Court see evidence. Even innocent can be punished if the evidence is `created`. in case of Geelani that is what has happened. You announce every where `this` person is terrorist. Make people think that giving even false witness against him is duty.
 
@doublemaster, I dont think he is as innocent as you think.. but i dont think we should have hanged him. The courts should follow the law by the book not respecting public sentiments.
The most shameful thing is the secret hanging, we are no better than china and iran.. :(
 
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@doublemaster, I dont think he is as innocent as you think.. but i dont think we should have hanged him. The courts should follow the law by the book not respecting public sentiments.
The most shameful thing is the secret hanging, we are no better than china and iran.. :(

May be....I really dont know if he is innocent or terrorist...Many times i feel he is innocent..looking at his behavior, Looking at police behavior. Also another culprit who is also now released because of his `good` behavior. Some times i feel he is involved.

Yes, Court has given a sentence. I have to accept it.
Some times it can even happen that court has punished innocent. But we cant blame court for that matter because they just go by evidence.



I did not care much about his secret execution, Even though it is not good, it is done thinking about kashmir.

Edit: But i am 100% sure that Geelani was dragged. Once more i am reading Afzal Guru verdict.
Honestly after his death i prayed like this: If he is innocent punish the people who killed him. If he wasnt punish him so hard that.........
 
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^^^No I mean, I have my doubts too. If courts did it just for public sentiments, its shameful. Dealth should be given only rarest of rare cases where there is nearly no doubt.
 
^^^No I mean, I have my doubts too. If courts did it just for public sentiments, its shameful. Dealth should be given only rarest of rare cases where there is nearly no doubt.

I happened to watch an interview of afzal in headlines today..... where in he clearly speak about his involvement in the attack... and he speaks about the entire conspiracy...... If you watch the entire video (if you haven't).... You could sense that he was guilty......

There is a proverb in malayalam.... "Ammaye thallyalum 2 paksham ulla nadanu nammudethu" ( Even if you beat your mother.... our people have 2 versions of it)
 
I happened to watch an interview of afzal in headlines today..... where in he clearly speak about his involvement in the attack... and he speaks about the entire conspiracy...... If you watch the entire video (if you haven't).... You could sense that he was guilty......

There is a proverb in malayalam.... "Ammaye thallyalum 2 paksham ulla nadanu nammudethu" ( Even if you beat your mother.... our people have 2 versions of it)

I was pointing to the fact that whether courts followed due proccess of law. He was already punished by the time interview was given, which means the confession there was not used in court.
The issue is not whether he was actually guilty, its whether courts were influenced by public emotion. I dont like the judgement when judge talks about public conscince. We are not living in ancient rome...
 
^^^No I mean, I have my doubts too. If courts did it just for public sentiments, its shameful. Dealth should be given only rarest of rare cases where there is nearly no doubt.
Please read the verdict mate. Most Indians are not concerned with facts. They say 'If guilty, punish him', while they themselves are lazy to get into the facts and go by the popular narrative, which in cases like this is dictated by the police. Just day before yesterday AP police picked up a Muslim guy without any proof 'to get an insight into his relationships'. The very same guy was acquitted in Mecca Masjid blasts. The fact is that police book youth in cases like this for rnadom reasons like he said something against India. Their reasoning is, if guilty he will get hanged anyways.If not he will suffer for talking against India.

The problem is the shameful inability of the police to gather any evidence from the ground and resort to top down sieve approach, hunting any guys suspected to have relationships or anti-India anti-Hindu views. In the end, it would seem they are punished for not their involvement in the said crime, but for their other sins.

The media plays its part by playing the 'leaks' from police about whatever arrests they make. So the youth arrested get smeared in the newspapers and on TV. The youth lose their jobs. Pressure builds up on police to charge someone, after all they have arrested so many guys.

What happens next is a subject of speculation. In Afzal's case, the human rights groups argue that a forced confession was obtained.
 

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