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Indus Civilization may have been a powerhouse of commerce and technology

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Indus Civilization may have been a powerhouse of commerce and technology

July 21st, 2008
By Mohit Joshi

Islamabad, July 21 : Scientists have determined that the emerging new understanding of the Indus Civilization suggests that it might have been “a powerhouse of commerce and technology in the 3rd millennium B. C. E.”

According to a recent report in the journal Science, though there is much written about the Indus Civilization, this report is different because it highlights how our scientific - in this case archaeological - knowledge on the subject is not only expanding, but changing.

Striking new evidence from a host of excavations on both sides of the tense border that separates India and Pakistan has now definitively overturned the second-class status given to the Indus Civilization.

No longer is the Indus the plain cousin of Egypt and Mesopotamia during the 3rd millennium B. C. E.

Archaeologists now realize that the Indus dwarfed its grand neighbors in land area and population, surpassed them in many areas of engineering and technology, and was an aggressive player during humanity’s first flirtation with globalization 5000 years ago.

The old notion that the Indus people were an insular, homogeneous, and egalitarian bunch is being replaced by a view of a diverse and dynamic society that stretched from the Arabian Sea to the foothills of the Himalaya and was eager to do business with peoples from Afghanistan to Iraq.

The Indus people worried enough about the privileges of their elite to build thick walls to protect them.

“This idea that the Indus was dull and monolithic–that’s all nonsense,” said Louis Flam, an archaeologist at the City University of New York who has worked in Pakistan. “There was a tremendous amount of variety,” he added.

Even well-combed sites have revealed some surprises:

While the city of Harappa may be 1000 years older and Mohenjo Daro far larger than once thought, the dramatic “Buddhist stupa” adorning Mohenjo Daro’s high mound may in fact date back to the Indus heyday around 2000 B. C. E.

For the first half-century after its discovery, the Indus was virtually synonymous with Mohenjo Daro and Harappa. No other major cities were known.

But along with 1000 smaller sites, archaeologists now count at least five major urban areas and a handful of others of substantial size.

These sites reveal new facets of Indus life, including signs of hierarchy and regional differences that suggest a society that was anything but dull and regimented.

Also, one of the most fascinating aspect of the Indus Civilization is about international trade.

While evidence accumulates from Indus cities, other insights are coming from beyond the region, as artifacts from Central Asia, Iraq, and Afghanistan show the long arm of Indus trade networks. (ANI)

Indus Civilization may have been a powerhouse of commerce and technology | Top News
 
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Anybody who has studied Indus civilization knows that it's geographical spread is the largest of ancient civlizations and that it was the development of long distance trade (modern day globalization) in particular with lapis Lazuli as the item exported.

But the piece above is typical of so called Indian journalism - this "us too" attitude, "their own place in the sun" - science, anthropolgy and archeology can do without this kind of nonsense, but nationalism built on varieties of science, it seems, cannot.
 
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“This idea that the Indus was dull and monolithic–that’s all nonsense,” said Louis Flam, an archaeologist at the City University of New York who has worked in Pakistan. “There was a tremendous amount of variety,” he added.


Oh funny..the ancient Indian civilization of the Indus Valley is being researched by neutral international scientists in the Indus Valley region of Pakistan and not India.. Funny that is indeed. :whistle:

I'm sure SA will come in with all the concepts of globalization and diversity were western inventions, but India was a close second, though this article would dispute him. :whistle:

Good find
 
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Science Unmasks New Knowledge about the Indus Civilization
Posted on July 20, 2008


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Adil Najam

A recent cover story in the prestigious journal Science reports that the scientific view of the Indus Civilization, of how it compares to its other two contemporary civilizations (Mesopotamia and Egypt), and of what might have happened to it is undergoing a stark and important reconsideration. That scientists consider it to be “Boring No More” and, indeed, the emerging new understanding of the Indus Civilization suggests that it might have been “a powerhouse of commerce and technology in the 3rd millennium B.C.E.”

I must confess that I am late in reporting about, and nearly missed, the June 6 cover story by Andrew Lawler, titled “Unmasking the Indus” (Science, Vol. 320, p. 1276-1285). I have been traveling out of the country, nearly non-stop, for the last seven weeks and only just got to the stack of Nature and Science (two of my favorite magazines) that had piled up in the unread mail. Of course, one look at the cover - which depicts a “bearded, horned terra cotta mask, about 5 centimeters in height, found at Mohenjo Daro, Pakistan” - had me hooked on what is unusually detailed (10-page long, with 6 sub-reports) and gripping report on the exciting new knowledge and understanding of the Indus Civilization that is beginning to emerge; knowledge that is beginning to question our long-held assumptions about what the civilization was, or was not.

Of course, there is much written about the Indus Civilization, including fascinating and detailed reports in National Geographic, etc., but this Science report is different because it highlights how our scientific - in this case archaeological - knowledge on the subject is not only expanding, but changing. It really is worth reading in the full and I would encourage readers to do so.


The opening few paragraphs of the lead essay - “Boring No More, a Trade-Savvy Indus Emerges” - give a flavor of the key argument:

THAR DESERT, PAKISTAN–Egypt has pyramids, temples, and mummies galore. Ancient Mesopotamians left behind the dramatic saga of Gilgamesh, receipts detailing their most prosaic economic transactions, and the occasional spectacular tomb. But the third of the world’s three first civilizations had, well, good plumbing. Even the archaeologists who first discovered the Indus civilization in the 1920s found the orderly streetscapes of houses built with uniform brick to be numbingly regimented. As recently as 2002, one scholar felt compelled to insist in a book that the remains left behind by the Indus people “are not boring.”

Striking new evidence from a host of excavations on both sides of the tense border that separates India and Pakistan has now definitively overturned that second-class status. No longer is the Indus the plain cousin of Egypt and Mesopotamia during the 3rd millennium B.C.E. Archaeologists now realize that the Indus dwarfed its grand neighbors in land area and population, surpassed them in many areas of engineering and technology, and was an aggressive player during humanity’s first flirtation with globalization 5000 years ago. The old notion that the Indus people were an insular, homogeneous, and egalitarian bunch is being replaced by a view of a diverse and dynamic society that stretched from the Arabian Sea to the foothills of the Himalaya and was eager to do business with peoples from Afghanistan to Iraq. And the Indus people worried enough about the privileges of their elite to build thick walls to protect them. “This idea that the Indus was dull and monolithic–that’s all nonsense,” says Louis Flam, an archaeologist at the City University of New York who has worked in Pakistan. “There was a tremendous amount of variety.”

… Even well-combed sites are still full of surprises: The city of Harappa may be 1000 years older and Mohenjo Daro far larger than once thought. And the dramatic “Buddhist stupa” adorning Mohenjo Daro’s high mound may in fact date back to the Indus heyday around 2000 B.C.E.


However, the problems remain serious. As the author points out:

…piecing together a cohesive new picture is hampered by the political discord between India and Pakistan. Many foreign archaeologists steer clear of Pakistan because of political instability, while India’s government–scarred by colonialism–often discourages researchers from collaborating with European or American teams. A virtual Cold War between the two countries leaves scientists and sites on one side nearly inaccessible to the other.

Science June 6 2008, Map of the Indus Valley CivilizationOne key in this new wave is the knowledge that was unleashed with the discovery, in the 1970s by a French-led team, of Mehrgarh “dating to 7000 B.C.E. in the Baluchistan hills on the western fringe of the Indus valley.” The Science article points out:

[Mehrgarh] is now widely accepted as a precursor to the Indus and clear proof of the indigenous nature of the later civilization. That idea gets new support from surveys here in the Thar Desert, on the eastern edge of the Indus valley. This area was long assumed to have been largely uninhabited before the rise of the Indus cities. But hundreds of small sites now show that humans lived here on the plains, not just in the Baluchistan hills, for several millennia prior to the rise of the Indus, says archaeologist Qasid Mallah of Shah Abdul Latif University in Khairpur.

Of course many mysteries remain - the largest probably about language and civilizational collapse - however, there is a key, and exciting difference:

For the first half-century after its discovery, the Indus was virtually synonymous with Mohenjo Daro and Harappa. No other major cities were known. But along with 1000 smaller sites, archaeologists now count at least five major urban areas and a handful of others of substantial size. These sites reveal new facets of Indus life, including signs of hierarchy and regional differences that suggest a society that was anything but dull and regimented.

One of the most fascinating aspect is about international trade:

Indus Valley CivilizationWhile evidence accumulates from Indus cities, other insights are coming from beyond the region, as artifacts from Central Asia, Iraq, and Afghanistan show the long arm of Indus trade networks. Small and transportable Indus goods such as beads and pottery found their way across the Iranian plateau or by sea to Oman and Mesopotamia, and Indus seals show up in Central Asia as well as southern Iraq. An Indus trading center at Shortugai in northern Afghanistan funneled lapis to the homeland. And there is strong evidence for trade and cultural links between the Indus and cities in today’s Iran as well as Mesopotamia.

…”These people were aggressive traders, there is no doubt about it,” adds [Gregory] Possehl [ of the University of Pennsylvania], who has found Indus-style pottery made from Gujarat clay at a dig in Oman. Archaeologist Nilofer Shaikh, vice chancellor of Latif University, takes that assertion a step further, arguing that “the Indus people were controlling the trade. They controlled the quarries, the trade routes, and they knew where the markets were.”

She points out that although Indus artifacts spread far and wide, only a small number of Mesopotamian artifacts have been found at Indus sites.
Evidence suggests that some Indus merchants and diplomats lived abroad, although the trade was certainly two-way. An inscription from the late 3rd millennium B.C.E. refers to one Shu-ilishu, an interpreter from Meluhha [a reference to the Indus civilization], reports NYU’s Wright in a forthcoming book. What may be Shu-ilishu and his wife are featured on a seal wearing Mesopotamian dress. There is some evidence for a village of Indus merchants between 2114 and 2004 B.C.E. in southern Iraq. And “a man from Meluhha” knocked out someone’s tooth during an altercation and was made to pay a fine, according to a cuneiform text, hinting at a life that was neither faceless nor boring.

Indus Valley CivilizationThere is much more in the full report to keep the reader engrossed. How archeaologists are chronically short of resources. How archaeologist Farzand Masih from Punjab University, Lahore, who is excavating at Ganweriwala, Pakistan, and Vasant Shinde from Deccan College, Pune, who is excavating at Farmana, India, work a mere 200 kilometers apart but cannot collaborate on their findings. How part of the last remains of a 5000-year-old city known as Lakhanjo Daro has been lost to “development” and a factory is being built over the site. How the politics of religion threatens to undermine scientific integrity and matters of archeology are being played out in the Indian parliament as well as the courts. How looters and thieves are running away with treasures of the Indus civilization. And much more.

I do hope our readers will find the Science report as fascinating as I did.

http://pakistaniat.com/2008/07/20/science-indus-harappa/
 
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How archeaologists are chronically short of resources. How archaeologist Farzand Masih from Punjab University, Lahore, who is excavating at Ganweriwala, Pakistan, and Vasant Shinde from Deccan College, Pune, who is excavating at Farmana, India, work a mere 200 kilometers apart but cannot collaborate on their findings.

Alright..to summarize..the Lahore Pak archaeologist allows international researchers from America onto his territory to look at the Indus valley.

The archaeologist from Pune, India doesn't allow foreign researchers onto its territory.

One wonders why the secrecy with the Indians? Could it be they're inventing stuff?
 
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Alright..to summarize..the Lahore Pak archaeologist allows international researchers from America onto his territory to look at the Indus valley.

The archaeologist from Pune, India doesn't allow foreign researchers onto its territory.

One wonders why the secrecy with the Indians? Could it be they're inventing stuff?

Indians have invented up the archaeological sites. I was unwilling to admit the truth thus far, but I have realized that this is a huge scam and conspiracy being run by the RSS-Bajrang Dal in order to extend India's territorial claims over Pakistan.

All the Indian sites are actually recently-abandoned Dhobi-ghats, which makes sense since even dhobi ghats need good drainage facilities. If you research the history of Dhobi ghats, you will realize that the first Indian dhobi had made a pilgrimage to Harappa in order to copy their drainage system. This is nothing new, since Indians always copy from Pakistan and take all the credit.

I have also learnt that Jinnah had conspired with the British so that the international boundaries were drawn just where the last of the Harappan sites were found, thus making sure that all the sites went to Pakistan. This angered hindu extremists like Sardar Patel, who vowed to relclaim our rightful heritage 'by hook or crook'. Since the numerous attempts by India to recapture Mohenjodaro from the clutches of the enemy have failed, India decided to 'recreate' it within their own territory.

There is hidden-cam footage lying with me of an illegal harappan seal and artefact-making workshop run by none other than the brother of Narendra Modi, the hitler of Gujarat. These seals, dolls and toys are made so cleverly that even the best (Indian) archaeologists are fooled by them. To add to the authenticity, the tiny wood-chips, and other organic matter within the clay is sourced from authentic archaeological sites, so that carbon dating methods too cannot expose the fraud.

All the CGI reconstructions and other such bullshit are made by famous Bollywood director Aditi Gowitrikar's studios in Mumbai. This experience of recreating Harappan cities enabled him to similarly recreate Mughal times in the recent movie Jodhaa Akbar.

Meanwhile, the RAW has been secretly fliming eminent archaeologists' private lives, and using the tapes to blackmail them into accepting that the Indian sites are authentic.

In 2007, the Israelis, who are experts in forging Biblical evidence to stake their claims over Palestinian lands, entered into a joint venture with the ASI to "research" the IVC. Their actual goals, which remain known to only a few insiders, is to improve the quality of forged Indian artefacts, and build a brand-new Harappan city in Bihar, which will surpass anything in Pakistan.
Such is the magnificence of this new city, that archaeologists will be forced to shift the epicentre of the civilization to Bihar.
 
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Indians have invented up the archaeological sites. I was unwilling to admit the truth thus far, but I have realized that this is a huge scam and conspiracy being run by the RSS-Bajrang Dal in order to extend India's territorial claims over Pakistan.

All the Indian sites are actually recently-abandoned Dhobi-ghats, which makes sense since even dhobi ghats need good drainage facilities. If you research the history of Dhobi ghats, you will realize that the first Indian dhobi had made a pilgrimage to Harappa in order to copy their drainage system. This is nothing new, since Indians always copy from Pakistan and take all the credit.

I have also learnt that Jinnah had conspired with the British so that the international boundaries were drawn just where the last of the Harappan sites were found, thus making sure that all the sites went to Pakistan. This angered hindu extremists like Sardar Patel, who vowed to relclaim our rightful heritage 'by hook or crook'. Since the numerous attempts by India to recapture Mohenjodaro from the clutches of the enemy have failed, India decided to 'recreate' it within their own territory.

There is hidden-cam footage lying with me of an illegal harappan seal and artefact-making workshop run by none other than the brother of Narendra Modi, the hitler of Gujarat. These seals, dolls and toys are made so cleverly that even the best (Indian) archaeologists are fooled by them. To add to the authenticity, the tiny wood-chips, and other organic matter within the clay is sourced from authentic archaeological sites, so that carbon dating methods too cannot expose the fraud.

All the CGI reconstructions and other such bullshit are made by famous Bollywood director Aditi Gowitrikar's studios in Mumbai. This experience of recreating Harappan cities enabled him to similarly recreate Mughal times in the recent movie Jodhaa Akbar.

Moreover, the RAW has been secretly fliming eminent archaeologists' private lives, and using the tapes to blackmail them into accepting that the Indian sites are authentic.

In 2007, the Israelis, who are experts in forging Biblical evidence to stake their claims over Palestinian lands, entered into a joint venture with the ASI to "research" the IVC. Their actual goals, which remain known to only a few insiders, is to improve the quality of forged Indian artefacts, and build a brand-new Harappan city in Bihar, which will surpass anything in Pakistan.
Such is the magnificence of this new city, that archaeologists will be forced to shift the epicentre of the civilization to Bihar.

you forgot, Indian BJP led Saffron parties are also trying to show an image that IVC is not 'Indian' but 'Shared' culture. which looks like a conspiracy to make sure the people across the border do get a bit of credit

:cheers:
 
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you forgot, Indian BJP led Saffron parties are also trying to show an image that IVC is not 'Indian' but 'Shared' culture. which looks like a conspiracy to make sure the people across the border do get a bit of credit

:cheers:

The construction on the new Bihar IVC city is in full swing. My insider tells me that the houses in this city have flush toilets as well! In addition, each road will have street-signs and zebra-crossings. This will far surpass any IVC city in Pakistan.
The plan is to construct the city fully, and then roll bulldozers over the entire place in order to make it look ancient. Then, the city shall be carefully buried under stratified layers so that the best geologists will not be able to detect the fraud.
These Israelis are geniuses. No wonder they managed to convince the world that they are the true inhabitants of Palestine.
 
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Indians have invented up the archaeological sites. I was unwilling to admit the truth thus far, but I have realized that this is a huge scam and conspiracy being run by the RSS-Bajrang Dal in order to extend India's territorial claims over Pakistan.

All the Indian sites are actually recently-abandoned Dhobi-ghats, which makes sense since even dhobi ghats need good drainage facilities. If you research the history of Dhobi ghats, you will realize that the first Indian dhobi had made a pilgrimage to Harappa in order to copy their drainage system. This is nothing new, since Indians always copy from Pakistan and take all the credit.

I have also learnt that Jinnah had conspired with the British so that the international boundaries were drawn just where the last of the Harappan sites were found, thus making sure that all the sites went to Pakistan. This angered hindu extremists like Sardar Patel, who vowed to relclaim our rightful heritage 'by hook or crook'. Since the numerous attempts by India to recapture Mohenjodaro from the clutches of the enemy have failed, India decided to 'recreate' it within their own territory.

There is hidden-cam footage lying with me of an illegal harappan seal and artefact-making workshop run by none other than the brother of Narendra Modi, the hitler of Gujarat. These seals, dolls and toys are made so cleverly that even the best (Indian) archaeologists are fooled by them. To add to the authenticity, the tiny wood-chips, and other organic matter within the clay is sourced from authentic archaeological sites, so that carbon dating methods too cannot expose the fraud.

All the CGI reconstructions and other such bullshit are made by famous Bollywood director Aditi Gowitrikar's studios in Mumbai. This experience of recreating Harappan cities enabled him to similarly recreate Mughal times in the recent movie Jodhaa Akbar.

Meanwhile, the RAW has been secretly fliming eminent archaeologists' private lives, and using the tapes to blackmail them into accepting that the Indian sites are authentic.

In 2007, the Israelis, who are experts in forging Biblical evidence to stake their claims over Palestinian lands, entered into a joint venture with the ASI to "research" the IVC. Their actual goals, which remain known to only a few insiders, is to improve the quality of forged Indian artefacts, and build a brand-new Harappan city in Bihar, which will surpass anything in Pakistan.
Such is the magnificence of this new city, that archaeologists will be forced to shift the epicentre of the civilization to Bihar.

This is all very high on sarcasm, very low on facts. One fact you have not answered (of course), is why no international archaeologists do research with the Indians on their sites?

They say sarcasm is a lower form of humour, but this isn't even humerous. The bringing in of the Israelis, however, did cause me to laugh a bit, since it was such a stupid example, yet it's one that is so common for Indians to use nowadays on these forums. Just so you know, the Biblical evidence does suggest there was a nation of Israel, perhaps even on Palestinian land, however the nation of Israel was a Semitic group of people, and the current crop are not Semitic. There's no biblical forgery involved, and anyone in any country with an Old Testament Bible can read it. Indian IVC structures cannot be accessed by anyone in the outside world. They are researched by only Indians, so it's not conclusive, as there's a political agenda to their conclusions. BJP are heavily involved in the archaeological digs there, and until neutral people can verify it, people would remain skeptical. You'll find some IVC structures located in India, but not that many. The Civilization was clearly associated with the river system of the Indus Valley, the only way you'll get a significant settlement of IVC structures in India, is to make a non existent river (so called Saraswati), magically appear. Even if the Saraswati had existed, the central point of the river systems would still have been on Pakistan, and this is where the most important sites of Harrappa and Mohenjendaro are found oddly enough. But in all likeliness, the Saraswati river did not exist.

Batman said:
Yeah and hindus had time machine and they went back to the history and named the cities falling in indian side on there gods and religous marks.
e.g. kali, rakhi and dhol :crazy:
Ever wonder why the civilization map resembels to Pakistan's map?


THE GEOGRAPHIC TWO NATION THEORY: “Pakistan” existed 5000 years ago. IVC thrives as Pakistan today

No doubts, the ASI will release another CGI image as "proof" the IVC was located in India soon :whistle:
 
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Yeah and hindus had time machine and they went back to the history and named the cities falling in indian side on there gods and religous marks.
e.g. kali, rakhi and dhol :crazy:
Ever wonder why the civilization map resembels to Pakistan's map?


THE GEOGRAPHIC TWO NATION THEORY: “Pakistan” existed 5000 years ago. IVC thrives as Pakistan today

Batman, if I didn't know better, I would have assumed that your post was a tongue-in-cheek parody of people with such ridiculous ideas.
Here is my own (very serious, mind you) reply to your post:

Exactly. Which is why the Indus Valley civilization matches the contours of the Indo-Pak border down to the last earthen pottery shard.

Jinnah was a clever man. He anticipated the locations of future IVC sites well before any archaeologists ever got to them. I wonder how...maybe he had a time machine.

Yeah, and the ASI gave the forged Indian sites Hindu names, so that they can prove that the Kalibanganis (we have changed the name from Harappans to Kalibanganis fyi) were hindus.
 
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Shiv-lingam?? I'm unawar of any such finds in Mohin-jo-Daro or Harappa. Can you please post a link to support your claim?

Thanks!
 
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history books show that shiv-lingam were found buried in these sites in mohenjodaro-harappa.

The argument is that Indus Valley civilization culture/beliefs may have influenced later cultures and beliefs -

If so wouldn't it be accurate to say that it was not the 'Shiv-lingam' that was found, but something that resembled it and preceded it, that the shiv-lingam might have been derived from?
 
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there are so many arguments in this topic that they cant be completed here in this forum.
by the way AgNoStIc MuSliM , if those were not lingam, what was it , a satellite launcher, or anything outside this world. ?
just for sake of argument, those places are mentioned in 3500yr+ mahabharat and ramayana epics of hinduism,
more proofs can be found,likewise

Start a thread - there are already a couple on the IVC. Forums are for discussing things.

The lingam is considered a symbol of worship, not necessarily specifically a representation of Shiva, hence my point that they were not necessarily shiv-lingam.

In fact the lingam in the IVC are considered to be tomb markers and/or phallus worship. I fail to see how the presence of lingam automatically makes them shiv-lingam.
 
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