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India's rich temples may open gold vaults for Narendra Modi

Gold is the foundation of our currency because Indians fancy it. Without that it is no better than copper or aluminium etc. We like the shiny metal that do not oxidise and retains its shape and look. The ultimate consumer goods. :D

Gold is also soft and malleable and its easy to make jewellery out of it. It is these properties that make it valuable to Indians.

Modern economy is built on electronic credit. Its similar to a bit coin, only it is controlled by the banks. That electronic credit is backed by the Us military might and NATO military might.

That is why any new military power and a new banking system can overturn the modern economy and US dollar.

Gold is only the backup plan. As you rightly said, not too many people in the world own gold. Common Indians own gold, but many in the US own guns. That kind of power is also the foundation of currency or credit.

Gold was not just the foundation of our currency but the world's currency. Until the Brenton Woods system came into being Gold was the standard currency all over the world. It is not because we like shiny metal that Gold became our favorite. There are many shiny things in the world.

Gold is soft, malleable, fungible, noncorrosive, and not very scarce neither very abundant. This is what made it the perfect currency. Anything that is over abundant has no value. Anything that is too scarce cannot be made use of as an item of daily need. Unlike paper or plastic it is not environmentally destructive. Nor does hoarding of gold deprive people of necessities of life unlike hoarding of foodgrains or essential items.

Banks are the biggest ponzi schemes there are. Trusting the banks is what has turned US and Europe into indebted and bankrupt countries. That is not the way for us to go. Neither can military power be a lasting currency. Soon some other power will take over or there will be an equalizer and then what?

For the period 1976-2012, the average returns were stocks = 6.7% and gold = 2.5%.

This is turning silly.

Yup, we have seen average return of stocks. We have seen how well the stock market performed here in the last 10 years.
 
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For the period 1976-2012, the average returns were stocks = 6.7% and gold = 2.5%.

This is turning silly.

Yup, we have seen average return of stocks. We have seen how well the stock market performed here in the last 10 years.
Real Rolling Gold Returns compared to Stocks — Visualizing Economics

For the period 1976-2012, the average returns were stocks = 6.7% and gold = 2.5%.

This is turning silly.



Quoting intrinsic value again:
Intrinsic value (finance) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In finance, intrinsic value refers to the value of a company, stock, currency or product determined through fundamental analysis without reference to its market value

Can you please derive the intrinsic value of gold based on future cashflows from it?



On the Intrinsic Value of Precious Metals
1 Comment
By Erik Voorhees - July 26, 2010 12:26 PM
Image by pbarnhart_cedarparkvia Flickr

It is often said that precious metals have no intrinsic value, and thus the man who claims it as a safe asset and store of wealth has been mislead by superstition. Economists, financial advisors, and politicians of all stripes perpetuate this sentiment. Gold, they claim, is just like anything else - it's only valuable to the extent to which it's trusted by people. Yet, this is not quite accurate. Gold, silver, and other precious metals do indeed have intrinsic value, and it's time for the source of this value to be understood. Certainly, financial experts have no excuse for ignorance on this subject.

To understand the value of precious metals, let's first examine other commodities. Most commodities have an obvious intrinsic value. Lumber can be used to build houses and furniture, grain can be used as food, and oil for energy and a variety of industrial purposes. Spectators are quite able to see the intrinsic value in these things. No reasoned individual would claim that oil is simply a shiny goo, valuable only because people "have faith" in it. It is valuable because it can be turned to gasoline and, when combined with an automobile, is able to convey you and all your stuff across vast distances.

Likewise, it is not from mere faith that grain derives its value, nor from trust and international contract that lumber commands a price on the market. Value in these commodities is clear and demonstrable, and it summons no great mental effort to comprehend.

But where is the intrinsic value of gold? Or silver? One can't build houses, nor eat, nor drive a car with these commodities - their value must come from elsewhere.

To be sure, gold is shiny and has long been used in the crafting of jewelry and ornamentation. It is always desired for these purposes. However, few wars have been fought over pearls, which also make lovely jewelry. No, it is neither the glimmering earrings nor necklaces which comprise the majority of gold's intrinsic value. It is something else.

As to silver, we know it as a wonderful conductor of electricity. As such, the metal has intrinsic value in the production of circuits and electronics. Yet, this benefit was entirely irrelevant for most of man's history, yet silver has always been precious. Like gold, the intrinsic value of silver must come from something other than these obvious societal uses.

So where do precious metals get their value? Their value derives from nothing less than their efficacy as a medium of exchange - as a money. It may sound weird at first, or perhaps tautological, to claim that gold is valuable because it can be used as value, but this is precisely the point. Precious metals, by their natural characteristics, are simply those commodities which are best suited to be used as money. A brief examination readily testifies the point.

Ponder, for a minute, what possible product on Earth could be used as money? Technically, anything could be used as money. We could all trade with cattle, or with sand, or with venti mocha lattés. But, what is it about these things which make them impractical as money? Cattle die, for starters, which is not ideal for savings. Sand is too plentiful... try to buy an ice cream cone with sand. You will need much of it. Venti mocha lattes are the most valuable per ounce, but they get cold, and will certainly expire with time. Continue this thought experiment with other items - you will come to realize that most things, while very useful for certain purposes, are lousy as money.

Eventually, you will stumble upon gold, and you will realize that it works beautifully as money. It is durable (it never rots or rusts), it is divisible and combinable (unlike diamonds), it is homogeneous (every ounce is the same as every other - unlike cigarettes, seashells, and birthday cakes), and it is scarce (unlike sand or grain). Silver mirrors these attributes, though it seems to be less scarce and thus less valuable per ounce.

It should then become apparent that gold has intrinsic value because of its natural properties and the circumstantial geological composition of the Earth. Perhaps on another planet, if gold extended forth from every hillside, it wouldn't make a practical money, as truckloads would be required for the smallest of purchases. But we're not on another planet, and thus gold and other precious metals have proven themselves, over thousands of years, as the most effective money. This is where their intrinsic value comes from.

How do we then consider these metals against fiat paper currencies (such as US Dollars), which have been the modus operandi since the gold standard was fully abandoned in the 1970's? Well, there's really only one important difference. Dollars can be, and are continually, printed at whim by governments that need to buy the votes of the public. Gold and silver do not suffer the same embarrassment.

So the next time you hear a commentator state that gold has no intrinsic value, remember what is being overlooked - its ultimate value as money itself.
 
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Gold was not just the foundation of our currency but the world's currency. Until the Brenton Woods system came into being Gold was the standard currency all over the world. It is not because we like shiny metal that Gold became our favorite. There are many shiny things in the world.

Gold is soft, malleable, fungible, noncorrosive, and not very scarce neither very abundant. This is what made it the perfect currency. Anything that is over abundant has no value. Anything that is too scarce cannot be made use of as an item of daily need. Unlike paper or plastic it is not environmentally destructive. Nor does hoarding of gold deprive people of necessities of life unlike hoarding of foodgrains or essential items.

Banks are the biggest ponzi schemes there are. Trusting the banks is what has turned US and Europe into indebted and bankrupt countries. That is not the way for us to go. Neither can military power be a lasting currency. Soon some other power will take over or there will be an equalizer and then what?

Gold WAS the foundation of global currency and that idea primarily came from trading with India.

Modern economics and currency are built on military power and the ability to enforce the nations will and its GDP. Our Gross Product determines our Currency. The problem with currency started after WW-1 when Germany was forced to pay war reparations of about $33 billion.

Since it was virtually impossible for any produce that much actual output, the government's only choice was to print more and more money, none of which was backed by gold. That is how this whole mess started and it has gone on till now.

If tomorrow the world decides against buying gold, then gold will loose its value. It will have value only among Indians and will be backed by our GDP.

Western banks has used their ponzi effectively by increasing their leverage and offering credit to their citizens at low value, helping them increase their gross product and productivity. It was backed by a good education and a strong system that was based in law and its enforcement.

This effectively helped them improve the quality of life of their citizens. How has India helped its citizens have a better life by not being part of this global ponzi ?

Its not a simple black and white issue. It come in all shades of Gray.
 
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Yes, just like we see how vaccinations lead to autism.

Kahneman won the Nobel prize for his work on behavioral finance
Recency bias
Serial position effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh really!!!. Now Nobel prize's are the measure to look behavioral finance? Is that why the world economy is in doldrums? All the economists in the world do not seem to be able to be putting the humpty dumpty of their broken economies back together again.

Remove the WiFi or internet cable and restart your computer.

Then make the physical connection and first go to google.

Then go to proxy and log in to pdf.

See if that works.

Nah it is not working.
 
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So where do precious metals get their value? Their value derives from nothing less than their efficacy as a medium of exchange - as a money. It may sound weird at first, or perhaps tautological, to claim that gold is valuable because it can be used as value, but this is precisely the point. Precious metals, by their natural characteristics, are simply those commodities which are best suited to be used as money. A brief examination readily testifies the point.

Quoting your own post :confused:

We now have electronic credit - which does away the need for having gold.

Oh really!!!. Now Nobel prize's are the measure to look behavioral finance? Is that why the world economy is in doldrums?

All the economists in the world do not seem to be able to be putting the humpty dumpty of their broken economies back together again.

Nah it is not working.

Yes the world economy must be left in the hands of religious institutions and their supporters. I agree.
 
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Modern economics and currency are built on military power and the ability to enforce the nations will and its GDP. Our Gross Product determines our Currency. The problem with currency started after WW-1 when Germany was forced to pay war reparations of about $33 billion.

Since it was virtually impossible for any produce that much actual output, the government's only choice was to print more and more money, none of which was backed by gold. That is how this whole mess started and it has gone on till now.

If tomorrow the world decides against buying gold, then gold will loose its value. It will have value only among Indians and will be backed by our GDP.

The problem with currency did not start with WW-1. You must explain why currency needs to be backed by gold.

If tomorrow world decides against buying gold, which it did, when US govt made it illegal for its citizens to hold gold bullion in any form, gold dropped in dollar value temporarily, but it never lost its value. Gold was fixed to $35 an ounce. Today after all these years what is the value of dollar and what is the value of an ounce of gold? It is the dollar which lost its value regardless of their military might and not gold.

Western banks has used their ponzi effectively by increasing their leverage and offering credit to their citizens at low value, helping them increase their gross product and productivity. It was backed by a good education and a strong system that was based in law and its enforcement.

This effectively helped them improve the quality of life of their citizens. How has India helped its citizens have a better life by not being part of this global ponzi ?

Its not a simple black and white issue. It come in all shades of Gray.

They are robbing their citizens of their money by diluting the value of dollar. What do you think is happening to their savers? What rate of interest are they getting on their hard earned money? They have only 2 options, risk it all in a rigged up stock market or lose the value of their holdings year on year to inflation.

If you were to look at the Gini coefficient of USA, there is no gross inequality anywhere else in the world as much as in USA. The wealth of its middle class as well as common man is being transferred entirely to the 1% rich people.. What education are you talking about? If Americans were so educated, they would not have been importing the world's educated to take up positions in their industries and fill up their universities.

India can never be a part of the global ponzi because we are not the West. They do not care for their own people, and you think they will care for India?

Quoting your own post :confused:

We now have electronic credit - which does away the need for having gold.

No it does not. It is just the latest form of currency which will be exposed for the fraud it is just like bitcoin has been.

Yes the world economy must be left in the hands of religious institutions and their supporters. I agree.

I do not see how that can be so bad considering what the bankers have been up to, giving themselves million dollar bonuses for running the bank to ground and then getting the govt to bail them out with taxes from ordinary people.
 
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Its a way of Monetizing Temple gold and help the temple make a profit (interest) on it. It will be backed by the gold held by the federal govt. of India.

A part of this gold will find its way back to the temple too.

Its a win win situation in most cases. It should be avoided when the gold artifacts have more value that the gold itself due to its historic value and artistic value. Then it can be auctions in India, gold brought for the money and then the temple trust can hand over that gold to the govt. for safe keeping and a healthy interest.
This will actually help the temples build more temples and other charitable institutions and help counter the missionary Lure tactics of Conversion.
The Temple boards should be removed from State Governments control, twice a year audit should be done by Government officials of the temple wealth, but the management of wealth should be left to The temples itself, so that they become self sustained units which have a far outreach in changing lives of people.
 
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Modi or who ever is in government I as a devoted Hindu dont trust in any one...

Its High time all the State and central government Handover the TEMPLE administration to Hindus and the governing body be Headed by only a Devoted Hindus...

We want to Use our Temple Funds to Built new Temples , for bringing more non-Hindus into Hindu religion and apart from helping poor Hindu Devotees...
Modi can go for a PPP venture, where the temple money could fund the government project and then in turn the temple gets the profit, which it can use to propagate Sanatana Dharma and build charitable organizations and new temples.
But for that to happen he should first remove the State Boards control over Temples and give the authority and administration of temples to Hindus themselves.
 
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The problem with currency did not start with WW-1. You must explain why currency needs to be backed by gold.

I am trying to say the today the currency need not be backed by Gold. The global system is too large to fail permanently. There can be a dip and a crash, but the sytem will be put back in its place. Nobody can afford it to fail.

Not US, not Europe, not China with its huge USD reserves. Not India with US as its largest trading partner.

If tomorrow world decides against buying gold, which it did, when US govt made it illegal for its citizens to hold gold bullion in any form, gold dropped in dollar value temporarily, but it never lost its value. Gold was fixed to $35 an ounce. Today after all these years what is the value of dollar and what is the value of an ounce of gold? It is the dollar which lost its value regardless of their military might and not gold.

You don't get it.

The value of gold was held down artificially thus making holders of physical gold POOR. That means Majority Indians, not Americans. This continues till date and is unlikely to change unless we have a WW-3.

The value of USD is HIGH and has become the standard for global trade making the US RICH. If Indians with our GOLD need to do global trade, we need to PURCHASE US $$$$.

Do you see how absurd the reality is ? The value of gold, in reality has a very small VALUE. The Paper currency of US has the real value. IT has been so for the last 60 years and will remain so in our Lifetime. What good is gold then ?

What good is Gold who's actual value is 10,000 points but trades at 100 points ? The man with the GUN calls the shots.

You can cry hoarse about all this being "unfair", but the world don't give a $hit.

They are robbing their citizens of their money by diluting the value of dollar. What do you think is happening to their savers? What rate of interest are they getting on their hard earned money? They have only 2 options, risk it all in a rigged up stock market or lose the value of their holdings year on year to inflation.

Think about it.

They have a better quality of life than us. Their children get better education, better food, better clothes and better toys to play with. They enjoy better life styles.

Who is the real victim here ? Us or them ? Who's children starve to death in-spite of having all this "gold" ? Who's children get deprived of education or equal opportunity and are forced to become Coolies ?

They do not get a high FD, but they get social security. Which is better ? They get compulsory health care. Which is better? Higher interest on your FD or a longer life span and a life filled with comfort ?

What is the Risk for an average Indian ? what is the risk for an average european or American ? Who has higher Risk ? Who gets better insurance coverage (a measure of Risk) ?

If you were to look at the Gini coefficient of USA, there is no gross inequality anywhere else in the world as much as in USA. The wealth of its middle class as well as common man is being transferred entirely to the 1% rich people.. What education are you talking about? If Americans were so educated, they would not have been importing the world's educated to take up positions in their industries and fill up their universities.

I accept all the realities include the gross inequality. Also the inequality in India, which is not so alarming, but alarming enough. The real inequality is lack of opportunity.

End of the day the wealth has to translate to a better life style. Where do we stand w.r.t that ? That is the only real parameter.

Education represents access to equal opportunity. Not ambition or capacity or capability. US provides that. Better than India. (better by a long shot)

India can never be a part of the global ponzi because we are not the West. They do not care for their own people, and you think they will care for India?

As I said, its not black and white. Its Gray. So far the reality is we have not cared for our people. We appear to care for gold more. Which is more dangerous ?

This will actually help the temples build more temples and other charitable institutions and help counter the missionary Lure tactics of Conversion.
The Temple boards should be removed from State Governments control, twice a year audit should be done by Government officials of the temple wealth, but the management of wealth should be left to The temples itself, so that they become self sustained units which have a far outreach in changing lives of people.

The question then is who appoints the Temple board ?

The earlier system of having brahmins and their community in charge of temples did not fare too well for the rest of the Hindus. Its a tricky question and needs a carefully thought out answer.
 
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That is a good idea. The religious places should be for worship only not a vault for gold and riches.
 
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The question then is who appoints the Temple board ?

The earlier system of having brahmins and their community in charge of temples did not fare too well for the rest of the Hindus. Its a tricky question and needs a carefully thought out answer.
They should have equal representation of every hindus on a rotational basis of 1 or 2 years, that formula can be worked out or is already being worked at as several mutts and Temples are coming together to form a unified command in Goa recently in VHS summit.
But first things first, is getting the Temples out of State boards grip.
 
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I am trying to say the today the currency need not be backed by Gold. The global system is too large to fail permanently. There can be a dip and a crash, but the sytem will be put back in its place. Nobody can afford it to fail.

Not US, not Europe, not China with its huge USD reserves. Not India with US as its largest trading partner.

Central Banks Are Boosting Their Gold Reserves - Bloomberg Business

Why are the central bankers of every country hoarding up on gold? Should not USD be enough? Why is BRICS Bank coming up when all can just be happy with USD?
You don't get it.

The value of gold was held down artificially thus making holders of physical gold POOR. That means Majority Indians, not Americans. This continues till date and is unlikely to change unless we have a WW-3.

The value of USD is HIGH and has become the standard for global trade making the US RICH. If Indians with our GOLD need to do global trade, we need to PURCHASE US $$$$.

Do you see how absurd the reality is ? The value of gold, in reality has a very small VALUE. The Paper currency of US has the real value. IT has been so for the last 60 years and will remain so in our Lifetime. What good is gold then ?

What good is Gold who's actual value is 10,000 points but trades at 100 points ? The man with the GUN calls the shots.

You can cry hoarse about all this being "unfair", but the world don't give a $hit.

It is the USA which held most gold in 1970s. It was the Americans who has the most bullion of any other people in the world. The Brits had made settlement of War debt to USA with Gold. So it was the US public which was made poor. It was the artificial price of gold which made it possible for Indians to buy it back!!!

The value of USD is high because it is petrodollar. USA was backed by oil rather than gold. This and the fact that it held the Arabs by their balls is what made US rich. Yes, we need to purchase USD now, this does not mean it will be so for all perpetuity.

As I said in 1970s, one ounce of gold cost 35 dollars. It costs upwards of 1200 dollars today. So has the value of dollar held up against gold? The paper currency of US is being challenged even now when it has lost 40-50% of its international reserve function. The more nations start dealing with their own currencies and have swap deals, the more dollar loses its status as reserve currency. The dollar's relevance is only as long as oil is sold at premium.
What good is Gold who's actual value is 10,000 points but trades at 100 points ? The man with the GUN calls the shots.

You can cry hoarse about all this being "unfair", but the world don't give a $hit.


http://www.businesstoday-eg.com/eco.../world-bank-predicts-death-for-us-dollar.html

The Silent Death Of The U.S. Dollar | Investment Research Dynamics

If the world does not give a shit, why is the world hoarding up on Gold?

I accept all the realities include the gross inequality. Also the inequality in India, which is not so alarming, but alarming enough. The real inequality is lack of opportunity.

End of the day the wealth has to translate to a better life style. Where do we stand w.r.t that ? That is the only real parameter.

Education represents access to equal opportunity. Not ambition or capacity or capability. US provides that. Better than India. (better by a long shot)

Our quality of life had nothing to do with gold in the temple or with public. It had everything to do with the communism/socialism practiced by the govt.

Education has not provided Americans with equal opportunity. As of today, India provides the same opportunity as US does. As of today more Indians educate out of our colleges free of debt than Americans do. This despite their long military arms.

As I said, its not black and white. Its Gray. So far the reality is we have not cared for our people. We appear to care for gold more. Which is more dangerous ?

Wrong conclusions. We have not cared about our people because we did not understand our people. Our people understand their immediate needs and their financial security more than the govt does. It was the govt's attempt at being caring with its socialism and confiscation of public property which caused the perpetuation of poverty in the first place.

The question then is who appoints the Temple board ?

The earlier system of having brahmins and their community in charge of temples did not fare too well for the rest of the Hindus. Its a tricky question and needs a carefully thought out answer.

They are already working on it and by and large it wont be secular Hindus but religious ones.
 
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