Indians-RAW laughing all the way to the bank

[KRAIT]

^ But you can't ignore the fact that India is behind some illegal activities in Pakistan and supporting elements against Pakistan.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Indians-RAW laughing all the way to the bank

As a Pakistani I am just marveling at the masterful strokes of Indians and especially RAW in the past 10 years when dealing with Pakistanis. ...

And yet, Islamsits enjoy wide spread support in Pakistan across all different sections of our society.

FaujiHistorian, thanks for a fresh perspective. But you forget that Islamism was built into Pakistan's DNA. Without it, it would not have been possible to bring about the partition.

 

[rajnikant]

Really, did you activate the other braincell to work that out. Heat is often represented by red which can also translate into danger. ,See if you can activate your Bharti brain to work that out. !!

I know about your fused brain cell...they often do flip flop and as a result you always post an offtopic post here (see the fresh eg).
GENIUS i was talking about the heat on the other side (FOR YOUR INFORMATION i.e Your side) and lol you came running here did a google search get an Image and posted it here..whats this obsession with Red (read China) color...
if you try to use..u dont have to go that far to see RED color (if you love it so much) just turn around and see ...u have lots of i..and it has just started...

and now please dont come up with poverty images ...i beg of you...your mighty highness

 

[Abingdonboy]

^ But you can't ignore the fact that India is behind some illegal activities in Pakistan and supporting elements against Pakistan.

Of course India has certain elements inside Pakistan-just as ISI has assets inside India, but they are nowhere near as powerful or numerous as this opener is making out ie they are not powerful enough to have crippled the nation of Pakistan to such an extent as is being claimed- Pakistan has done this all by themselves.

It is quite cool though how ISI has become well-know throughtout the world but RAW is still a mystery to most- quiet professionals to the last!

 

[Developereo]

Well Pakistan does love its conspiracy theories ( so do I btw).


But I think propagating these lies- yes lies, is more harmful than just passing your time with fantasies as it pardons the real culprits ie politicians, Military, terrorists and society in general of any blame or accountability for their actions and their part in the current situation. The fact is the level of involvement India/RAW would have to have in Pakistan to have caused the issues you talk about and we all know of is just mind-boggling and beyond the capabilities of any intelligence agency on earth. Controlling ones own nation by use of secret agencies and the like is one thing (ie Gastapo/KGB) but controlling another's is something complelty different and really beyond any agencies abilities. Yes RAW, potentially, could do the odd thing here or there but the level of violence,destruction and disaster that exists in Pakistan today is as a result almost entirely by groups Pakistanis themselves be it politicians or PA or others. By making up such fantasies you are taking no blame yourselves nor passing any blame to those responsible and holding them accountable and this is a major reason why Pakistan can't even think about moving foreward if you're stuck in this whole evil "Bhrati/RAW/MOSSAD/CIA" mentality thinking they are responsible for all your ills and you are helpless and faultless victims in it all.



Recommended reading:

A tale of conspiracy: Why can’t we handle the truth? – The Express Tribune Blog

Good post.

You guys should post it on a wall and refer to it the next time you want to blame the ISI for a traffic jam in Mumbai.

Also send a copy to NATO so they can stop shifting the blame for their incompetence in Afghanistan onto Pakistan.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Good post.

You guys should post it on a wall and refer to it the next time you want to blame the ISI for a traffic jam in Mumbai.

Also send a copy to NATO so they can stop shifting the blame for their incompetence in Afghanistan onto Pakistan.

Thanks. I'm not one of those idiots whose go to "boogeyman" is the ISI, in many cases jumping to the default villain of the ISI has hindered investigations and been exploited by others. However in the same breath I do have to be realistic and say the ISI does have a hand in quite a lot of the bad things that happen in the region.

 

[Screambowl]

^ But you can't ignore the fact that India is behind some illegal activities in Pakistan and supporting elements against Pakistan.

well It cannot be proven also if it exists. Basically our ideology is different. We need not to operate so covertly. our democracy and diplomacy does the work.

 

[Fazlu]

^ But you can't ignore the fact that India is behind some illegal activities in Pakistan and supporting elements against Pakistan.

Like what "dude" ?

Instead shooting off your hip, why dont you post any meagre evidence you can summon ?

 

[OrionHunter]

In my estimation, I think that RAW is given too much importance and credence to any successes that the GoI has had vis-a-vis Pakistan's troubles over the past 10 years.

I've always said that the GoI has played a blinder on the diplomatic front, and dealt its cards incredibly well. That for some is overlooked. Sound bites transcend global politics, and magnify certain situations or the profile of countries. We saw the impact of sounds bites such as "mad dog" (Reagan on Ghadaffi), "axis of evil" (Bush on NK, Iran and Iraq) etc. These lend governments around the world, and people to understand those countries in a certain (negative) light.

The blinder that GoI played was using the word "cross-border terrorism" (CBT) to define Pakistan's activities in Kashmir, and then allowing this phrase to be applied to Afghanistan.

In the aftermath of 9/11, with no takers in the world for the "Kashmiri freedom fight", India rammed home CBT over and over again, in ever single fora, every single meeting, with every single Western dignitary who visited Delhi until the point was made clear.

In addition to that, the restraint India has shown despite incidents like the attack on Parliament in 2001, or 26/11 has given them a lot of credit in foreign capitals.

They've contributed to Afghanistan in a positive fashion from what the Afghan's say, as well as their govt, despite us failing to grasp or acknowledge that. The real problem has been the fractured nature of our politics and decision making since 2008.

I have no complaints under the Musharraf era, as I can see progress towards peace was being made. Even pre 9/11, Musharraf was clamping down on jihadi collection boxes at mosques, and did a lot to cool tensions as well as introduce a mutually agreeable solution to Kashmir.

However, the internal dysfunctional nature of our corrupt politicians, the lack of domestic and foreign policy foresight is just a reflection of how bad we are with governance, and making progress on even the smaller things.

All the while that India advances. In education, in health, economic, defence, with the US, in relations with China ($75 billion annual trade vs. Pakistan's $11 billion), we are left behind in all spheres.

RAW has been better perhaps on the chess board, it hasn't needed to do a great deal because we've imploded and handed the mess we're in on a plate to India.

However, India has upped the propaganda machine to malign us (and quite rightly so), and used terms like CBT to leave us flat-footed, weak, isolated and desperate.

I can't blame India, if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd do exactly the same. But my God, we've made it terribly easy for them.

Wow! That was a very well thought out post! However I kinda disagree with you when you say that "India has upped the propaganda machine to malign us." That is far from the truth. It's not to malign Pakistan but to put pressure on it to bring to heel people like Hafiz Saeed and bring to justice the perpetrators of the Mumbai pogrom.

There is also the Zia doctrine of 'bleeding India with a thousand cuts' that continues even to this day without let or hindrance. Infiltration into Kashmir continues unabated helped by Pakistan's security forces deployed along the border and LoC. 42 terror training camps still exist in Pak administered Kashmir and there are no plans to shut them down. This is a fact and cannot be refuted, never mind the vociferous denials to the contrary.

The question is, would it be possible to dismantle this infrastructure? Not until there is a paradigm shift in Pakistan's foreign policy which depends on perpetuating instability by proxy in neighboring countries.

But it's really a cat and mouse game. Pakistan suspects India of helping the BLA and some even mention TTP! The impression is that the Indian consulates in Afghanistan are helping forces inimical to Pakistan. Can this needless tit-for-tat ever end? That's the million dollar question.

And for that question to be answered both countries need statesmen of the highest caliber, which unfortunately are sorely lacking. Vested interests in both countries will perhaps never let detente come about. And that's the sad truth.

 

[ice_man]

Thanks. I'm not one of those idiots whose go to "boogeyman" is the ISI, in many cases jumping to the default villain of the ISI has hindered investigations and been exploited by others. However in the same breath I do have to be realistic and say the ISI does have a hand in quite a lot of the bad things that happen in the region.

alot of bad things that happen in the region? like what? MMS not being able to wake up on time in the morning?

Like what "dude" ?

Instead shooting off your hip, why dont you post any meagre evidence you can summon ?

so what is RAW incompetent? is that what you trying to say? or are they a Monk group?

 

[KRAIT]

Like what "dude" ?

Instead shooting off your hip, why dont you post any meagre evidence you can summon ?

I would lie you you to do some research on RAW and its activities.....Then may be we can talk about it....I have read many articles etc. and i am too lazy to present it to you. Better start with wiki......

 

[ice_man]

Wow! That was a very well thought out post! However I kinda disagree with you when you say that "India has upped the propaganda machine to malign us." That is far from the truth. It's not to malign Pakistan but to put pressure on it to bring to heel people like Hafiz Saeed and bring to justice the perpetrators of the Mumbai pogrom.

There is also the Zia doctrine of 'bleeding India with a thousand cuts' that continues even to this day without let or hindrance. Infiltration into Kashmir continues unabated helped by Pakistan's security forces deployed along the border and LoC. 42 terror training camps still exist in Pak administered Kashmir and there are no plans to shut them down. This is a fact and cannot be refuted, never mind the vociferous denials to the contrary.

The question is, would it be possible to dismantle this infrastructure? Not until there is a paradigm shift in Pakistan's foreign policy which depends on perpetuating instability by proxy in neighboring countries.

But it's really a cat and mouse game. Pakistan suspects India of helping the BLA and some even mention TTP! The impression is that the Indian consulates in Afghanistan are helping forces inimical to Pakistan. Can this needless tit-for-tat ever end? That's the million dollar question.

And for that question to be answered both countries need statesmen of the highest caliber, which unfortunately are sorely lacking. Vested interests in both countries will perhaps never let detente come about. And that's the sad truth.

1000 cuts & 42 "terror camps" who told you all this ZEE NEWS or STAR???? or Sunny deol movies? or was it something you guys are taught in school & BR?

 

[T-Faz]

Is it not true that the creation of Pakistan was based on the premise the Hindu and muslim are two different civilisations and that they can't co-exist ? This premise is communal and a bit racist as well to be honest.

Don't get me wrong anyone , I am happy that partition happened like most of my countrymen .

The premise was that great distinction had occurred between the two communities whereby everything was looked through the prism of religion. Muslims and Hindu's rather being one as Indians were known as Indian Muslims and Indian Hindu's. Although Jinnah was a great proponent of Hindu-Muslim unity, but the reality dawned on him that the ever increasing hostility between the communities would result in great catastrophe if India remained united.

Its not a matter of co-existing but instead the dominating mentality of South Asians, everyone here is always competing to get to the top rather than working together and being content with what they have. Muslims and Hindu's would also remain in competition in a single environment but a partitioned country would have helped both co-exist.

The ideology behind Pakistan was very different to what it is perceived to be.

 

[Screambowl]

alot of bad things that happen in the region? like what? MMS not being able to wake up on time in the morning?



so what is RAW incompetent? is that what you trying to say? or are they a Monk group?

may be you are right , our intel. is not comparable to ISI because the way ISI has spread its arms in middle east, afghanistan, turkey, north africa, it could be next to CIA.

 

[funtoosh]

The premise was that great distinction had occurred between the two communities whereby everything was looked through the prism of religion. Muslims and Hindu's rather being one as Indians were known as Indian Muslims and Indian Hindu's. Although Jinnah was a great proponent of Hindu-Muslim unity, but the reality dawned on him that the ever increasing hostility between the communities would result in great catastrophe if India remained united.

Its not a matter of co-existing but instead the dominating mentality of South Asians, everyone here is always competing to get to the top rather than working together and being content with what they have. Muslims and Hindu's would also remain in competition in a single environment but a partitioned country would have helped both co-exist.

The ideology behind Pakistan was very different to what it is perceived to be.

it is only the muslim mentality to feel this way. muslims are the invading force. devoid of muslims the subcontinent would have remained hindu.