Indian Railways vs. Chinese Railways...

[Götterdämmerung]

If it was financial problem for us, I would be begging in Germany, and not paying 2000 euros to germany government and uni , monthly for fee.

we will build it when we find it suitable according to our commuter market and if it is profitable. India is not small like germany, and our commuter market is not like china, we must not copy others as it is.

I hope you will go back to India once you finished your study to help your country's progress. With your superior skill in making arguments, I'm sure only the sky is the limit for India's progress.

 

[HeinzG]

buddy, you do not see any photos of their dirty streets and railway stations on google, because google censors it. But when they only show bad photos of our countries. This is the monopoly, and this is why google was banned in China.

Do they really? Anyway truth can't be hidden for ever.

 

[AndrewJin]

I hope you will go back to India once you finished your study to help your country's progress. With your superior skill in making arguments, I'm sure only the sky is the limit for India's progress.

gut gesagt!

 

[Keel]

Indian Railways ruined by populist Budget
Economic Freedom Opinions AUTHOR: TAVLEEN SINGH - JUNE 27, 2014

On the morning of the railway accident near Chhapra last Wednesday, TV news anchors, especially on the Hindi channels, went slightly nuts. They connected the accident, which may have been an act of Maoist terrorism, to the recent rise in the price of railway tickets and freight transport announced by the new Minister of Railways. They charged the Minister with betraying the ‘common man’. Here I quote verbatim what a lady anchor said, “The Government has raised the price of tickets by 14 per cent on the grounds that passengers will be provided with better services and better security but this accident is a proof that the burden of paying more should not be imposed on the common man. He now pays almost as much for a railway ticket as he pays for an air ticket and he cannot even be guaranteed safety.”

What this lady and her comrades on television chose not to mention is that it is because the railways have failed to raise the price of passenger travel and freight for more than a decade that it is unable to provide better services. It is because fares are not increased regularly that they have gone up steeply now. When it comes to Railway budgets, populism always wins. The most famous example of this came in 2012 when the hysterically populist Chief Minister of West Bengal ordered the Prime Minister to sack Dinesh Trivedi as Railway Minister because he dared to try and raise fares by between two paise and 30 paise a kilometre. Her Trinamool Congress was part of the Central Government at the time and the Minister was one of hers. The Prime Minister was controlled by Sonia Gandhi whose populist ideas exceed the wildest dreams of Mamata Banerjee so he was forced to comply. But, the 14 per cent increase was what even Sonia Gandhi would have been forced to order if her Government had been voted back this time. The new Railway Minister has made it clear that he is implementing something that his predecessor had said was necessary.

It is because of populism of the worst kind that the Indian Railways have gone from being among the finest and grandest in the world to being the worst and most unsafe today. Populist Railway Ministers have so mismanaged the Railway Budget that there has not been any money left for expansion, modernisation or anything. So in the 67 years since the British left Indian Railway Ministers have added only a miniscule amount of new track despite passenger travel having gone up six fold since 1947. Independent India inherited 55,000 route kilometres of track and today this figure stands at 63,000 route kilometres to serve 24 million passengers daily. Compare this with China’s record. In 1947 it had 27,000 route kilometres of track and today this figure is 78,000 route kilometres. But, this is only part of the great Chinese railway success story.

On a visit to China in 2010, I took the train from Tianjin to Beijing and got there in thirty minutes (a distance of 130 kilometres) because the train travelled at more than 300 kilometres an hour. China now has trains that travel at such speeds across the length and breadth of the country and this means that in terms of rail travel it is about 50 years ahead of India. It is not just the speed of Chinese trains that fascinated me when I was there but everything about rail travel in that country. The railway stations are more modern than most that I have seen in Europe or America and on par with the newest airports in India in terms of services.

At Tianjin railway station where I had some time to kill I drank excellent coffee in an attractive café and inspected a menu for fine dining in a nearby restaurant. And, there were bars and shops that I could have explored had I wanted. The Chinese appear to have noticed long ago that railway stations can be used to build more than passenger waiting rooms so there are shops, restaurants and hotels in which travellers can while away the time and add to railway coffers by spending their hard earned money. At Tianjin railway station I remembered sadly our own railway platforms covered in travellers sleeping, eating and waiting with their baggage on the floor and I remembered the smell of human excrement and rotting garbage that hangs over Indian railway stations like a disease filled pall.

It was not always this way. Train travel in India was once long ago a wonderfully, romantic experience but this was before populist railway budgets wrecked everything. Once upon a long ago time, railway hotels provided excellent services and were filled with old-fashioned charm. So travellers, including your columnist, often chose to stay in them instead of seeking out a hotel in the city. Some of these old railway hotels still exist and if they were restored could be as popular as the magnificent railway hotel I visited in the seaside resort of Hua Hin in Thailand. This hotel is run by the Sofitel Group and is so wonderfully restored that it lures more travellers in this former private seaside resort of the King of Thailand than the newer hotels further up the beach.

Why can we not restore our old railway hotels? Why can the railways not make better use of the very expensive urban land that it owns? Why cannot Indian trains at least have proper toilets instead of holes in the ground that scatter excrement and disease across the length and breadth of India wherever our trains travel? Why cannot railway safety standards be improved? Why cannot railway passengers get better food? There is a single answer to all these questions: populism.

The railways cannot be financed by populism and good intentions they need money for maintenance and modernisation. This will only become available when Indian journalists as well as ordinary citizens realise that they cannot become hysterical every time the price of tickets goes up. This is what always happens so Railway Ministers usually end up rolling back fare increases as has happened this time in Mumbai under political pressure. This metropolis has more daily commuters than any other Indian city and these commuters complain routinely of bad services and crowded compartments. Why should they have the right to do this when they are unprepared to pay for better services? It is the same story across India and the result is that Indian railway services are today decades behind the rest of the world.

Clay Figurine Zhang - Tianjin

 

[Yizhi]

@AndrewJin

my trip the other day from Shenzhen to Guangzhou by CRH1. 1h12mins on the train, very crowded.

yup it's not fast at all below 160km/h the whole time. there is definitely room for further upgrading.

this was at one of the mid-stops, Zhangmutou i think. small town station yet lots of people.

out of the train at Guangzhou East Railway Station.

with 10~15mins interval time we still have such crowed situation on Guangzhou Shenzhen line at an ordinary working Tuesday noon, they really should increase the speed to around 200km/h for the sake of upgrading the capacity. also a 45 mins trip would save me 20 minutes which is quite an improvement for people like me hopping between Guangzhou & Shenzhen.

They want berth/compartment, 300km/hr a 2 meals in 11 hours journey and cost not more than 5000 rupees (490 RMB). If China can tell us how to do, we would love to co-operate and build this rail with your help. And I am not trolling I am serious.

The Shatabdi express, 150km/hr max, provides meal and breakfast in 8 hours journey but no berth and hence less famous.

Chinese HSR News And Information：Original Translations | Page 13

京沪穗深间高铁动卧增至9对 票价折后低于二等座 - 行业 - 人民铁道网 - 中国官方铁路门户
Shanghai-Shenzhen/Guangzhou, 2 services for each, 560/630yuan upper/lower berth 11hours
Guangzhou(3 per night)/Shenzhen(2 per night)-Beijing 700/800yuan 11hours

For day-time G-serious
Guangzhou-Shanghai, 4 daily, 793yuan/second class 6-8hours
Guangzhou-Beijing 6 daily, 862yuan/second class 8-9hours

Guangzhou-Beijing is roughly 2000 km, close to what you ask for.
meals are included on sleeper train.

 

[AndrewJin]

railway stations can be used to build more than passenger waiting rooms so there are shops, restaurants and hotels in which travellers can while away the time and add to railway coffers by spending their hard earned money.

Yes. Transportation hub, commercial centre, business centre, high-tech industry, all interrogated in to a transportation CBD.
Hankou Station, Central China (My hometown)

Shanghai Hongqiao Station

Hangzhou East

@AndrewJin

my trip the other day from Shenzhen to Guangzhou on CRH1. 1h12mins on the train, very crowded.

View attachment 213516

View attachment 213517

View attachment 213518

View attachment 213519

View attachment 213520
yup it's not fast at all below 160km/h the whole time. there is definitely room for further upgrading.

View attachment 213523
this was at one of the mid-stops, Zhangmutou i think. small town station yet lots of people.

View attachment 213531
out of the train at Guangzhou East Railway Station.

with 10~15mins interval time we still have such crowed situation on Guangzhou Shenzhen line at an ordinary working Tuesday noon, they really should increase the speed to around 200km/h for the sake of upgrading the capacity. also a 45 mins trip would save me 20 minutes which is quite an improvement for people like me hopping between Guangzhou & Shenzhen.


Chinese HSR News And Information：Original Translations | Page 13



Guangzhou-Beijing is roughly 2000 km, close to what you ask for.

P.S. 300km/hr in 11hrs=3300km. i checked the map Indian territory is not even that large.

You know, select the right train....
Shenzhen-Guangzhou, 2 types of bullet trains
1, C-series, on the old line, 1h10min-1h20min
2, G-series, on the new Beijing-Shenzhen HSR, 35min-50min
REMEMBER, second class for C is 79.5yuan and for G is 74.5yuan!!!
(new line is slightly shorter than the old one, they are based on the same price per kilometre)
But G starts and ends in HSR stations, and C starts from old stations. It depends on where you live since they are all connected by Metro in Shenzhen or Guangzhou.

 

[Yizhi]

You know, select the right train....
Shenzhen-Guangzhou, 2 types of bullet trains
1, C-series, on the old line, 1h10min-1h20min
2, G-series, on the new Beijing-Shenzhen HSR, 35min-50min
REMEMBER, second class for C is 79.5yuan and for G is 74.5yuan!!!
(new line is slightly shorter than the old one, they are based on the same price per kilometre)
But G starts and ends in HSR stations, and C starts from old stations. It depends on where you live since they are all connected by Metro in Shenzhen or Guangzhou.

yes i've tried G-series before.
my place in Guangzhou and my home in Shenzhen are rather close to the old stations, it makes more sense for me to use the old line. besides the C-series is popular coz the old Shenzhen Station is right at the Hong Kong border, so it's not just Shenzheners like me, most HKers use this line too.... more reason for them to do the upgrading i think.

 

[AndrewJin]

yes i've tried G-series before.
my place in Guangzhou and my home in Shenzhen are rather close to the old stations, it makes more sense for me to use the old line. besides the C-series is popular coz the old Shenzhen Station is right at the Hong Kong border, so it's not just Shenzheners like me, most HKers use this line too.... more reason for them to do the upgrading i think.

How about a new Intercity HSR(200-250km/h)?
Old line for freight and long-distance overnight trains?

 

[Yizhi]

How about a new Intercity HSR(200-250km/h)?
Old line for freight and long-distance overnight trains?

a new line sounds great. i'm sure we have both the demand and money to make it work.

 

[AndrewJin]

a new line sounds great. i'm sure we have both the demand and money to make it work.

NPC members from Guangdong Province have already proposed a new one in the next 5-year plan.

 

[Keel]

Yes. Transportation hub, commercial centre, business centre, high-tech industry, all interrogated in to a transportation CBD.
Hankou Station, Central China (My hometown)
View attachment 213534

Shanghai Hongqiao Station
View attachment 213533

Hangzhou East
View attachment 213539

I think all of China's transportation terminals/ stations (air sea bus trains) have been doing these big or small business on the sides for a long time and many years in operation before the running of HSR As a matter of fact, these are common practices ALL over the world

The situation with India is their train stations are either too old and crowded so there no rooms for running these businesses or the people can't afford to spend anything more after paying their tickets!

If it was financial problem for us, I would be begging in Germany, and not paying 2000 euros to germany government and uni , monthly for fee.

we will build it when we find it suitable according to our commuter market and if it is profitable. India is not small like germany, and our commuter market is not like China, we must not copy others as it is.

That is the problems with India - a big country (by population) but very poor governance ([ls read post #305) and I can say finance is your biggest problem if not why India has only built 8,000 km railways since independence in 1947 when 55,000 km was inherited from the Brits

" It is because of populism of the worst kind that the Indian Railways have gone from being among the finest and grandest in the world to being the worst and most unsafe today. Populist Railway Ministers have so mismanaged the Railway Budget that there has not been any money left for expansion, modernisation or anything. So in the 67 years since the British left Indian Railway Ministers have added only a miniscule amount of new track despite passenger travel having gone up six fold since 1947. Independent India inherited 55,000 route kilometres of track and today this figure stands at 63,000 route kilometres to serve 24 million passengers daily.

Indian Railways ruined by populist Budgets"

Your case of education fees blah blah ,,, is irrelevant to the issue at hand

Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

 

[Screambowl]

I hope you will go back to India once you finished your study to help your country's progress. With your superior skill in making arguments, I'm sure only the sky is the limit for India's progress.

yes, I am not staying here either even when I am getting an offer to give lectures in one of the TUs. I would rather go to US for work and then return to India.

Do they really? Anyway truth can't be hidden for ever.

i took photos of a dirty lake here.. ducks are inside and bottles of beer, and oil .too .. damn

Chinese HSR News And Information：Original Translations | Page 13

The price is very high per ticket, even the rich people will avoid this, you are not aware of Indian mentality, we are stingy by nature, and this is the reason we care less about standard of living. Other wise market is full of investments and projects.

 

[Echo_419]

Why the hell is this thread even open

 

[Screambowl]

I think all of China's transportation terminals/ stations (air sea bus trains) have been doing these big or small business on the sides for a long time and many years in operation before the running of HSR As a matter of fact, these are common practices ALL over the world

The situation with India is their train stations are either too old and crowded so there no rooms for running these businesses or the people can't afford to spend anything more after paying their tickets!

That is the problems with India - a big country (by population) but very poor governance ([ls read post #305) and I can say finance is your biggest problem if not why India has only built 8,000 km railways since independence in 1947 when 55,000 km was inherited from the Brits

" It is because of populism of the worst kind that the Indian Railways have gone from being among the finest and grandest in the world to being the worst and most unsafe today. Populist Railway Ministers have so mismanaged the Railway Budget that there has not been any money left for expansion, modernisation or anything. So in the 67 years since the British left Indian Railway Ministers have added only a miniscule amount of new track despite passenger travel having gone up six fold since 1947. Independent India inherited 55,000 route kilometres of track and today this figure stands at 63,000 route kilometres to serve 24 million passengers daily.

Indian Railways ruined by populist Budgets"

Your case of education fees blah blah ,,, is irrelevant to the issue at hand

Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

when you say finance is the problem, which is not actually a problem, we have already spent more than 100 million on just studying the HSR. The HSR does not suit our commuters. We can build it, but this will not generate profit. There is no guarantee that if it has generated profit in China it will do in India. WE do not have that economic system which requires HSR as of now.

 

[UPer]

And this is NYC

you think you are the only one who has seen the world... now F*** Off!

Though we have differences in opinion on how to improve Indian Railways; I can attest that condition of US public transportation is sub-par and I have seen many stations. NYC metro is really old and dingy. When the Sandy storm hit NYC area, there were reports of rats coming out of subway stations

I have seen other parts too, nothing to write home about. Though to their credit, because of geography and population spread, public transportation is not preferred choice to majority.

by78 is a troll with agenda.