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Indian Missile Systems-Untold Story

Vinay Shankar
Posted online: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 at 0000 hrs IST

It appears that at long last the performance of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) might come under the scanner. It was subjected to some scrutiny after the Kargil war and a few reforms were suggested. Not much was done on those recommendations.
Commenting on the DRDO in isolation, without looking at the higher defence management framework within which it is placed, would perhaps lead to incomplete or even flawed deductions. Besides the services headquarters, the ministry of defence has the defence secretary and three other branches run by secretary-level officers. They are the secretaries, defence production, defence finance and defence R&D. Though they are deemed to be equal in status to the defence secretary, it is the defence secretary who wields the greater authority and who plays the pivotal role. Service chiefs and the other secretaries may interact with the defence minister but all coordination and policy formulation is through the defence secretary.
The point being made is that if the DRDO has not delivered for so many years, the blame must also rest with the higher defence and national security management apparatus to include the political leadership and bureaucrats for having been complicit in the DRDO’s failures. The problems of the DRDO begin from here, in that never has it been really held accountable for its breach of commitments. Occasionally, there may have been the odd adverse comment but beyond that the establishment has continually turned a blind eye to the DRDO’s poor performance.
And this takes us to the next question. Why has our higher defence management not reacted more sharply to the delays and cost overruns of DRDO projects? The part answer is, perhaps, its lack of commitment to the capability requirements that the service chiefs project. It may be contended with some conviction that this absence of serious commitment is the crux of the problem.
National security demands that the country’s defence forces be of a size and potency that dissuades and deters potential adversaries against adventures like Kargil, or for that matter even the ongoing militancy and terrorism in J&K. The conclusion thus to be drawn is that there must be greater sanctity to the requirements that the defence services project together with accountability of those responsible for implementation of procurement plans.
The issues of self-reliance and indigenous production would acquire a clearer perspective if they were viewed against the backdrop of the capability projections of the three services. Against anticipated budgets, the services put up five-year plans for modernisation, expansion and capability accretion. These are within the framework of the desired service profile to be achieved within 15 years. Once whetted, these profiles must become the collective responsibility of all the departments of the MOD, including defence production and finance. The DRDO then must join the chorus instead of singing a different tune all the time. Having said this, it is also true that there would be slippages.
The difference between good and bad organisations often is that a bad organisation frequently forgets the purpose for which it was created. Having lost sight of why it came into being, its focus gets distorted. This distortion is evident in the DRDO’s workings. Instead of working in concert with the defence forces in ensuring that the services get weapon systems and force multipliers that they need within the desired time frames and without having to compromise on cost and quality, its purpose has been to get more projects, more funds, bigger budgets and grander establishments in the name of indigenous production capability. In its pursuit of self-aggrandisement it has also successfully acquired power and clout over the defence establishment.
Consequently, it manages to push quite a few decisions that are patently irrational. One example is the army being compelled to utilise the Arjun tank chassis for its requirement of self-propelled guns. Now these guns do not need the kind of engine power and protection that a tank must possess. Then again the Arjun chassis is overweight and frightfully expensive, yet the army must go along or get involved in a long-drawn battle that would end up further delaying the induction of these guns. We are today the only so-called modern army in the world, which does not have such guns. The case has been in the pipeline since the early eighties.
There are also examples of some needless development projects that the DRDO has undertaken. The outcome is an indifferent 105 mm ‘Indian’ field gun (we could have easily kept the ‘Indian’ out of it), a not-so-reliable family of 5.56 rifles and machine guns, the Pinaka being ordered this year when by the time it reaches the user it would have the dubious distinction of being an almost obsolete system. These are only a few examples.
The compulsions and logic of the DRDO developing long-range missiles or electronic warfare systems are understandable. There are technology denial regimes in place for such systems. Again, there are other technologies where we have no alternative but to vigorously pursue indigenous development. The DRDO thus must concentrate its energies on such projects. Research in growing vegetables, food preservation technologies and the like must be abandoned forthwith.
Some serious in-house introspection and brainstorming is in order. It needs to shed the culture of aping officialdom and the trappings of government. The focus should be on laboratories and workshops. Simultaneously, the DRDO could do well to seek a thorough external audit.
Most of the work currently on the drawing board could be farmed out to the private sector or the defence PSUs. More than half of the current establishment could be slashed. The resources thus generated could be used to focus on core strategic technologies by mobilising the talent needed to conduct such frontier technology research.
An analysis of the comparative achievements of our DRDO with that of other nation’s defence R&D establishments would highlight our dismal performance. It is not that our scientists are not as good or even better than the others. It is just that the system that we have created is not conducive to excellence. We therefore need to change the system, the work ethos and the culture of the DRDO.

The writer was director-general, artillery, during the Kargil conflict
 
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LCA: By its new deadline 2010 (thrice revised), project would have cost Rs 4000 crore extra; radar, engine still not in place, IAF says it’s not ready to certify LCA’s technology until 2008 clearance

New Delhi, November 14: At its last meeting in December 2005, the General Body of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the society developing the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, recorded one fact: the Indian Air Force, despite official plans to ultimately buy 220 LCAs, would order only 20 aircraft.

And that the IAF had refused to push the order up until it’s convinced that the new 2010 deadline, the project’s third consecutive time over-run, would be met.

The IAF had more than a reason.

According to latest official figures that will shortly be tabled by the Standing Committee on Defence in a report for Parliament, available with The Indian Express, DRDO’s 23-year-old indigenous fighter aircraft programme, taken as a whole — including the radar, jet engine and Naval variant — would have wiped away a minimum of Rs 9444.5 crore by 2010. Aggregate cost over-run: Rs 4,094 crore. Delay: 12.5 years and counting.

By DRDO’s own testimony in June to the same committee, there are still “certain complexities,” although it claims it will produce the 20 LCAs on order from the IAF by December 2011. But that would still be understandable if the LCA was in any way ready.

Five months after the ADA meeting, Air chief S P Tyagi communicated in no uncertain terms to then Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee that his force could not depend on the programme in the short term. Shortly thereafter, he told The Indian Express: “We have to see if it is a suitably modern aircraft when it is complete. Right now we just cannot take any decisions. We can only wait for initial operational clearance (in 2008).”

The implication: the IAF is not sure if the LCA would have slipped down a few generations by the time it’s inducted. But the Standing Committee only had this to say: “The Committee are constrained to note that, keeping in view the ever-increasing delay in operational clearance of LCA, early induction of the same as IAF squadrons seems to be an unrealistic proposition.”

Just how unrealistic it is is something that has come to characterize the LCA programme ever since its inception in August 1983, and culminating now in a gravely unready fighter aircraft that the IAF could have no choice but to induct in large numbers from 2012.



Consider the following: Despite a battery of nine test pilots who have been embedded with the LCA programme, the IAF has refused to officially certify any technological aspect of the LCA apart from its structural strength, until initial operational clearance (IOC). Air Headquarters said so, in a written reply to this newspaper. The clearance should have been achieved by 2007 but its new schedule is 2008.

After a four-year wait following the rollout of the LCA technology demonstrator in 1997 for a first flight, former Air chief S Krishnaswamy made out an official case in 2003 for a “limited series induction” of the aircraft to give the IAF a chance to familiarize itself. He told The Indian Express, “The LCA is not full in any way, each prototype is different. I was a staunch supporter of indigenisation but am also very critical. How long can you keep on developing a product?”

The eight promised Limited Series Production fighters, envisaged as a part of the Rs 3,301.78 crore second phase of the programme, are nowhere in sight. The LCA, which should have undergone weapons trials by 2003, will now only undergo “dummy” trials in December 2007 according to DRDO chief M Natarajan, putting a big question mark on the possibility of IOC by 2008.

The real problem: the HAL-DRDO multi-mode radar, the very brain that will guide the LCA’s weapons, is not ready. After spending Rs 166.8 crore since 1997, HAL has decided to bring in a foreign technical partner to bail it out. The radar has been tested on an HS-748 Avro, but persistent problems with software and its signal processor have forced HAL and DRDO to admit their failure.

DRDO has justified the delays and their impact on the IAF’s preparedness by pointing to a revision of the development strategy because of a foreign exchange shortage in the 1990s, US sanctions, re-designing composite wings for weapon definition after January 2004 and extensive on-ground and independent evaluation.

After a cost and time overrun of Rs 2,456 crore and 13 years since 1996, DRDO admitted to the Standing Committee in June that it could complete the Kaveri engine only under a foreign joint venture. Problems that have crippled the Kaveri, according to the latest DRDO testimony, include critical glitches in aerodynamic, aero-mechanical, combustion and structural integrity.

Most significantly, DRDO has admitted to the Committee that to improve performance and safety issues, a JV could be attempted. Former DRDO chief V K Aatre said: “When I retired (in August 2004), there were some loose ends in the programme involving the radar and jet engine. But I am surprised they have still not been resolved.”

The DRDO was pulled up in January by the Standing Committee to explain how the LCA’s delays would impact the IAF’s modernization. Their reply: “IAF only can state the possible impact of delay on modernization exclusively due to LCA.”

But at Air HQ, an unofficial and approximate damage analysis of the LCA’s delay, shared with The Indian Express, is to the tune of Rs 11,440 crore in forced upgrades (some variants of the MiG-21 that the LCA was to replace will be forced to serve till 2019-2021 at least) and stop-gap acquisitions.

This does not include the purchase of 126 fighters potentially worth Rs 30,000 crore that the IAF will shortly begin an acquisition process for. In an unusual move, the Naval LCA will use air data systems from Russia’s state-owned Rosobornexport, which will also create a shore-based test facility for the Rs 948.90 crore development. MiG Corporation will conduct a design review and be DRDO’s chief consultant.
 
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i think i can say, we dont have the best brains working for DRDO.

Bull
Can you or anybody else analyze why DRDO is repeatedly failing. Is there a basic flaw in the thought process? After all Indians in US and EU are in top positions in the defence related industry and do well.So why do they fail repeatedly when in Indian ventures. I think excessive reliance on home grown products without actually having the know how is a major factor. But honestly, you may be in a much better position to evaluate the situation further.Thanks in advance.
Araz
 
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The new Ixpress article has been busted in orkut completely.
with mr shiv discussing in forum ...
anyways not to say DRDO delayed a lot but then again making Arjun type MBT from scratch that is compared to type 98/99 of china in some cases better is definitely tuff.
The first few articles completely ignored a lot of things.

some points like
Army wanted a MBT and MBT's are always > 50 tonnes and Arjuns ground pressure is less than T90.
about LCA, after 1998 nuclear blasts we were denied everything and had to redesign our own FBW and flight control Laws.

Indian buerocracy is responsible for this more than DRDO.
 
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Araz DRDO is not failing.. its burocracy.
Ordering more T90's means you dont have to upgrade rail tracks to carry heavy tanks also u'll get some kickbacks from backdoor as always indian corruption at its best.

similarly a lot articles are foreign funded written to demoralize and stuffs like that, some are here to change MODs mind push them to go for foreign weapons....

india = endless corruption.
DRDO had done some EXCELLENT THINGS! And i'll post the list later.
 
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does this means DRDO is always successful no, brain drain lack of motivation etc etc are definitely some things which demoralisess the newly joined scientist and he leaves DRDO and joins a foreign MNC.
Plus constant acquisition of foreign stuffs made DRDO more prone to lousy work.
we shud induct something in numbers but our armed forces wants the best...
we dont understand u cant build best within a day u induct it use it again develope a next version like this.

DRDO so far has mixed failures and successes with many many successes but not enlisted.
 
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Still waiting for the success stories..........

The simple fact is this......when a process is subject to a business model it will run smoothly because Money is at stake. When it is run to govnt models then there will be the problems that DRDO is having.

Rather than simply "giving" tasks to the DRDO maybe they should be allowed to offer tenders like any other business. With any overruns being taken out of their overall budget.
 
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Still waiting for the success stories..........
Heard about the sonar suites developed by the DRDO. And avionics developed by DARE. The Malaysian AF placed an order with DARE for Su-30MKK mission computers. The Arjun's development lead to the Kanchan armor and a brilliant main gun. There are some Armour and rifling techniques which Isreal has taken from India as they were truly impressive.
 
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Still waiting for the success stories..........
surprise, surprise..

- Agni 1 and Agni 2
- Prithvi 1 SS-150, Prithvi-2 SS-250
- Nagan, HUMSA, HUMVAD, Mihir sonars
- Homi, Kite, Hawk and Tarang ESM systems
- INSAS
- Indra-1 and Indra-2 radars
- BFSR radars
- Tempest/Tusker EW
- Complete Mission suites for the Su-30MKI, Jaguar DARIN-II, MiG-27ML upgrade
- Lakshya PTA
- Nishant UAV
- Sujav EW
- SV-2000 radars
- Ajanta and Ellora EW
- Light Weight Torpedo
- Brahmos

What of ARDE with its INSAS [5,00,000 ordered]/Pinaka " 2 regiments ordered for 2002-07plus a couple of regiments for each year"?

What of DMRL?
http://indiannavy.nic.in/dna.pdf

What of DEAL with its CNR (over a 1000 required), DLRL with its Ajanta, Ellora EW systems or for that matter the KITE, HOMI, and several other ESM systems?

What of LRDE with its BFSR-SR (1,176 ordered), 3-D CAR (7+2 for the IAF and Navy, with more per the INs corvette plans), SV-2000 (10 for the Navy)?

I posted this from a site...
include.. Different medicines special life saving electrothermal bags for siachen...

Infact Arjun is a success after so many years the MKII version...then there is new prithvi tested today with new radars and datalinks.

Unmanned Ground Vehicle
Unmanned Water Vehicle
etc etc etc i can go on and on the list is endless.
 
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I can literaly go on if you want me to....
There are lots of JV's as well the Mayawi ECCM suite co developed with israel will go in their JSF and our LCA/MRCA as well.
so you can think how advanced will it be.

We replaced the sovermenny class sonar with our sonars as our performed better.

There are huge things for net centric warfares and stuffs...as well.
 
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DRDO gets it right when it’s unlike DRDO
Delayed Research, Derailed Organisation
AMITAV RANJAN / shivarror
Posted online: Saturday, November 18, 2006 at 0000 hrs IST
NEW DELHI, NOVEMBER 17
For all its defences against non-performance, the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO), ironically, has only to look within for ready templates of distinction. Programmes that have met targets are an isolated few but they worked well because their ethic symbolizes a fundamental breakaway from the tedium of the larger organisation’s default approach. Self-reliance, a term battered by DRDO’s track-record on showpiece programmes, shines beneath the hood in the Navy’s sonars, avionics and electronic warfare systems on IAF fighter aircraft and missiles developed under corporate foreign joint ventures.
The first two were developed on time because of the labs linking up with the armed forces right from the initial stages and, significantly, leadership that keeps young scientists on their toes. The latter, because international partnerships mandate a more professional approach to programme completion.
One of the most successful DRDO laboratories is also one of the least known, tucked away silently in the Trikkakara suburb of Kochi, fomenting applied research and technology to give the Navy real self-reliance in critical sensor systems.
The Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), the only DRDO lab to win both the Silicon Trophy and Titanium Trophy for excellence, has, in the last two decades, given the Navy an impressive 87 per cent self-reliance in acoustic sensors for warships and submarines. All Navy warships, including foreign ones, as a result, are fitted with DRDO sonars like the APSOH, HUMVAD and HUMSA, and the Navy does not need to import. Now, it is putting its finishing touches to the USHUS sonar for the Navy’s Kilo-class submarines and the Mihir dunking sonar for HAL’s Advanced Light Helicopter, all well within their projected timeframes.
Vice Admiral Madanjit Singh, formerly the Navy’s Southern Commander at Kochi, said, “The NPOL’s success is from user involvement right from the word go. The steering panel is headed by a serving Naval commander who sets the agenda, efforts between the DRDO and Navy are joint.”
VK Aatre, former NPOL director who went on to become DRDO chief, agrees. “When I was there, we could not distinguish between designers, Navy personnel and production engineers,” he said. “We shared an excellent rapport. The difference here was that the user was part of the design team.”
The lab’s current director V Chander, an IIT-IISc alumnus, has espoused applied research like no other DRDO establishment, working not for idealistic invention, but delivering quality, fool-proof sonar systems to the Navy. How?
First, he’s rechristened the HR cell as People, Academics, Research & Training. He’s made sure young scientists get to spend time with the Navy for extended periods of time rather than labour away only in their laboratories. Third, he’s made sure that the level of involvement with warships and the Navy is so high that projects are either completed or prudently foreclosed before despondence and lassitude can set in.
Vice Admiral Singh, as DG Defence Planning in 2000, recommended to the Task Force on the Reorganization of Higher Defence Planning, that the country’s R&D labs be rationalized on the lines of NPOL. What ensued, another story entirely, was a turf war that saw the idea quietly dissipate. Another area where DRDO has shone despite itself is avionics and electronic warfare systems for IAF fighter aircraft.
The IAF’s most advanced fighter, the Sukhoi-30 MKI, flies with avionics developed by the Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) in Bangalore, and has proved so good that the new British Hawk advanced jet trainers and the license-produced units of the upcoming contract for 126 foreign fighters, will be armed with DARE avionics and electronic warfare systems.
For now, in addition to the Sukhois, these arm IAF Jaguars and MiG-27s which, combined, have over 30 DARE electronic systems, including mission computers, electronic warfare suites, laser rangers and multifunction advanced cockpits.
A testimony to DARE’s work: in 2003, the Royal Malysian Air Force ordered radar computers worth Rs 21.15 crore (75 per cent of DRDO’s officially declared export value of Rs 27.93 crore) from DARE for its Sukhoi-30MM fighter fleet, and is interested in buying more.
Air Marshal JS Gujral, formerly IAF Central Air Commander and Deputy Chief in charge of acquisitions, feels DARE has done an excellent job in a world where such technology is simply too advanced to share. “DARE’s projects have succeeded also because of deep interfacing with the IAF. They have maintained a high mark in defence output and timeframes compared to DRDO’s other not-so-successful ventures. Across the board, the avionics and electronic warfare systems by DARE match up with the best in the world. The IAF has been very happy with what they have provided us,” Gujral said. DARE Director RP Ramalingam said, “DRDO has realized that if there is a WW III, the winner will be the side that can best control the electromagnetic spectrum, and has therefore placed India as a competent force in the world map of avionics.”
Foreign joint ventures, on the other hand, have compelled DRDO to put out more realistic predictions on time and cost. The BrahMos missile project, which began development in 1998 as a corporate joint venture with Russia and resulted in a world-class cruise missile that other countries now want to buy, was completed in just six years at a cost of Rs 667 crore - no time and cost overruns.
Similarly, the new generation Barak-II surface to air missile for the Navy, being developed by DRDO in a JV with Israel, is officially to cost Rs 2, 606.02 crore and be ready by May 2011, a far more realistic predictive frame than any other missile project under the indigenous IGMDP.
The defence sector does not have a policy for foreign direct investment, but DRDO open to joint ventures with foreign partners. No wonder then, that on June 7, the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence said, “BrahMos model should be followed in other projects also. Private sector should be given more opportunities in defence production and user participation should be encouraged from R&D stage.”
 
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Bull
Can you or anybody else analyze why DRDO is repeatedly failing. Is there a basic flaw in the thought process? After all Indians in US and EU are in top positions in the defence related industry and do well.So why do they fail repeatedly when in Indian ventures. I think excessive reliance on home grown products without actually having the know how is a major factor. But honestly, you may be in a much better position to evaluate the situation further.Thanks in advance.
Araz

Well the main reason they say is not in understanding what the buyer wants.DRDO comes out with something and user throws it back to them saying its useless, they again work on it and is again thrown back at them.

Indian Navy has done a better job in getting things work in DRDO by assigning officers to DRDo and making dure the end product is what they want.
 
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Ok I had a long reply to the "success stories" unfortunately everything crashed when i tried to post it......damn ISP's:angry:

Anyway with a lot of the projects which were non-partnership based i kept running into the same phrase "due to delays"

i will throw a few examples in the pot till i get more time to write the long mail in detail.

The Lakshya PTA -project started in 1977 ----aw hell just read the link 23 years plus, it seems is the normal project timing.:rolleyes:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/lakshya.htm

Nishant UAV-- I will suffice with the following quote--
"The unduly long delay in the development of the Nishant forced the Indian army to sign a deal with Israel for the acquisition of the highly versatile Searcher-II Unmanned aircraft"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/nishant.htm

I will go through the rest later but I would suggest that you do not mention the Arjun as being a success. Every report i have read (from sources on both side of the fence) has labeled it as a white elephant.After this much time the tank should be able to fly as well......
 
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Key No, Arjun is a success.....
124 has been ordered.

Its late as hell but if you want a analysis what Arjun has from a former us army tanker i can show you :)
I can even show you someones post whos working on it as we speak.

Army's problem first was with heat and stuffs which has been resolved.
now it weights more, 58 tonnes no MBT weighs in class of 40 tonnes so it was justified but there was a transportation problem.

so to reduce a but weight some ERA is replaced with NERA.
do you even know even with its weight its gorund pressure is less than T90? yes thats what counts.
its not a russian tank its completely a western design.
if you want further analysis let me know.
 
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Ok I guess we should define what we all mean by success.....

If you say that the tank is being inducted I will take your word for it. However since the issue at the heart of the thread is regarding the DRDO.

Can any of the "successes" be regarded as such if the deadline for such developments is decades past? And as i was saying there are a number of times when the Indian forces have had to purchase equipment to make up for this shortfall. (T90, Israeli UAV's etc etc).
Now the point is that this would be regarded as grossly negligent in most countries, so how is it that because it is the DRDO it becomes acceptable?

That is the heart of the question........
 
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