Indian L&T in race for Rs 2000cr howitzer tender

[Abingdonboy]

Have bought some shares..

I just feel that we should not assume by default everything is hunky dory and perfect in the private sector world.

Of course not! But they are starting from 0 so these kind of deals and JVs are an effective way of building this kind of capacity into Indian pvt defence players. There is an open window right now for the PVT defence scene in India to go 2 ways- either they see the commercial benefits of entering into this sector or they see it as a waste of their time and investment. These are PVT entities and as such have share-holders to answer to, they're not going to do India any undue favors- if they get orders they will expand their presence, invest in R&D themselves and create products themselves or they'll pull out complelty and let PSUs and foreign defence giants scrap it out.

 

[itachiii]

Defence forces need not be biased and should have best of the available system., think of a situation if the guns we reject today ends up against us on Chinese border.

jst because we buy a foreign product doesnt mean that the company will be restricted to sell the same product to china...

 

[sancho]

License production will also bring technology. If OFB can produce upgraded Bofors on its own, L&T will surely be able to deliver better.

Which still doesn't make any of the SPHs they offer in the competition anywhere close to be indigenous! It's just the usual hype, that whenever an Indian company is involved, we say it's indigenous tech, but neither the K9, nor the Cesar, or even the Denel howitzer in TATAs offer are indigenous only because they are licence produced.
LCA is indigenous, since it was designed and developed from us and for our needs, which shows the difference. So when Karan 21 says indigenous should be prefered, TATA has to win both, the tracked (Bhim) and the wheeled procurements, since it might be the manufacturer with a reasonable ammount of indigenous parts in their offer, even it the gun itself isnt.

 

[MST]

Of course not! But they are starting from 0 so these kind of deals and JVs are an effective way of building this kind of capacity into Indian pvt defence players. There is an open window right now for the PVT defence scene in India to go 2 ways- either they see the commercial benefits of entering into this sector or they see it as a waste of their time and investment. These are PVT entities and as such have share-holders to answer to, they're not going to do India any undue favors- if they get orders they will expand their presence, invest in R&D themselves and create products themselves or they'll pull out complelty and let PSUs and foreign defence giants scrap it out.

Exactly! That is what I meant. So no reason why MOD should do any undue favors to them. They should compete in a fair trial with other vendors and win on their own merit.

 

[sancho]

Exactly! That is what I meant. So no reason why MOD should do any undue favors to them. They should compete in a fair trial with other vendors and win on their own merit.

The best for India actually would be, if we had 2 seperate evaluations for manufacturers. One for the foreign howitzers, based on capability, ToT and offsets, the other one for indian companies that wants to produce the winning SPH in India, based on cheap production costs, quality of production and timely delivery estimates. By letting the companies choose their partners, we miss the chance to get the best, since KMW for example has a JV "only" with Ashok Leyland and can't team up with Tata anymore, which might have been able to to provide a better wheeled platform, or to produce cheaper and faster than Ashok Leyland.

 

[MST]

The best for India actually would be, if we had 2 seperate evaluations for manufacturers. One for the foreign howitzers, based on capability, ToT and offsets, the other one for indian companies that wants to produce the winning SPH in India, based on cheap production costs, quality of production and timely delivery estimates. By letting the companies choose their partners, we miss the chance to get the best, since KMW for example has a JV "only" with Ashok Leyland and can't team up with Tata anymore, which might have been able to to provide a better wheeled platform, or to produce cheaper and faster than Ashok Leyland.

You make a fair point. At the same time I feel govt can only encourage two companies (foreign and domestic) but weather they decide to work together or not will still depend on their compatibility and their requirements.

 

[sancho]

You make a fair point. At the same time I feel govt can only encourage two companies (foreign and domestic) but weather they decide to work together or not will still depend on their compatibility and their requirements.

Of course, especially when you deal with private companies, that mainly have a focus on financial benefits, it will be difficult, but still would be the best solution for India.
Anyway, just like you I hope for an inbiased evaluation and decision, there should be no preference for any howitzer and the technical/operational benefits should be the most important factors.