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Indian bureaucracy an obstacle to defence relationship, says US report

kurup

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A respected Washington-based think tank released a report on Tuesday, entitled ‘ US-India Military Engagement ,’ which reflects the American strategic community’s growing — if incredulous — realisation that New Delhi is not as enthusiastic as Washington about a high-profile military partnership between the two countries.

The Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS) report, authored by the Pentagon’s former South Asia director, Sahibzada Amer Latif , describes the period from 2004 to 2008 as “a heady time for bilateral security and strategic cooperation.” But the “stymying of deeper military contact” since 2008 has been ascribed to: India’s policy of strategic autonomy; the Indian defence ministry’s (MoD’s) inability to discuss policy and strategy; and the Indian military’s “capacity challenges.”

According to the report, “the Indian civilian bureaucracy has been the main obstacle to deeper military engagement, despite the Indian military’s desire for greater bilateral cooperation.”

The US strategic community has earlier contrasted India’s “professional” and “highly capable” military, with its relatively slow-moving and cautious bureaucracy. But this report sharply questions the military’s capabilities. It notes “the Indian military is facing capacity challenges through a combination of arms modernisation, serious personnel and discipline matters, and complex national security challenges that will tax the capacity of the Indian armed forces to engage the United States.”

“India, as a strategically developing country, has yet to develop a comprehensive and long-term concept of how and when to employ its military beyond its immediate neighbourhood or on missions other than peacekeeping,” the report says.

The report recommends “the United States needs to maintain reasonable expectations of India as a potential security partner over the near term to midterm, given its reluctance to partner too closely with the United States, which is rooted in a combination of (India’s) foreign policy orientation and capacity limitations.”

Mirroring Washington’s disappointment at Indian reluctance to play a more visible security role in the Asia Pacific, the CSIS report states: “Aside from Washington, the rest of Asia is also waiting for India to wade into the complex security scenarios that confront the Asia-Pacific region… Many Asian countries feel there has been episodic engagement and little demonstration of New Delhi’s intent to exercise more decisive leadership in the region.”

This would be a reality check for US Defence Secretary, Leon Panetta , who described India during his visit in May as a “linchpin” of America’s pivot to Asia. The report quotes Panetta, who said: “Defense cooperation with India is a linchpin in this strategy (of rebalance to Asia). India is one of the largest and most dynamic countries in the region and the world, with one of the most capable militaries.”

The CSIS report, unlike several earlier American reports, highlights the concerns that impose caution on New Delhi in engaging Washington. Amongst these are: Indian concern at the US-Pakistan relationship; domestic politics and the opposition of the Left; India’s impression of US unreliability stemming from “a past history of sanctions”, and the still unknown ways in which “the growing influence of state-based parties” will affect India’s national policies.

Given these constraints, the report recommends formulating a realistic long-term vision; dialogues about issues like Afghanistan and China’s military power; and multilateral cooperation with Asia-Pacific powers like Japan, Australia, Singapore, Indonesia and South Korea. It advocates joint patrolling of the Indian Ocean with the navies like those of Sri Lanka, Maldives and Bangladesh. And, perhaps, most controversially, it recommends that the US and India share Indian Ocean bases like the Andaman & Nicobar Islands and Diego Garcia .

Indian bureaucracy an obstacle to defence relationship, says US report
 
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Get on line, the common man has been suffering for a long time. This report points out to a problem i pointed out in 2001......give me a fuking job.....I do it better.
 
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Didn't read the article but I had the same opinion on US burocrates few year ago :D
 
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Yeah right..sorry I have experienced both and there is no comparsion!

So ??? am I not entitled for my own opinion ???

Comparison is what you do on some benchmark. And I definatly wasn't pointing at efficiency. My aim was at the level of thinking and tendency to see a particular thing with different glasses

And if you want I can tell you a good number of examples that will give the conclusion "US bureaucracy an obstacle to defence relationship with India " Bush try to make better relations with India. He made good progress with it. But guess why he didn't reach to the level he want. Guess why Obama just maintain the state quo than trying to do what bush did ???

There is nothing like a good or ideal bureaucracy.
 
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So ??? am I not entitled for my own opinion ???

Comparison is what you do on some benchmark. And I definatly wasn't pointing at efficiency. My aim was at the level of thinking and tendency to see a particular thing with different glasses

And if you want I can tell you a good number of examples that will give the conclusion "US bureaucracy an obstacle to defence relationship with India " Bush try to make better relations with India. He made good progress with it. But guess why he didn't reach to the level he want. Guess why Obama just maintain the state quo than trying to do what bush did ???

There is nothing like a good or ideal bureaucracy.


You are entitled to your opinion but if you are incorrect, I think someone should point it out to you. The US is ready to get this ball moving, and likewise Military personnel in India have the same desire, but our bureacracy in India is truely 4th world. Im not saying the US is perfect but trust me comparing India to US in terms of burecracy is ridiculous. I'll even go out on a limb and agree the US has some issue but you are kidding yourself if you think the US is impeding the momentum in this relationship. India has a lot of insecurity and its based on history but times are changing. ANd the US has learned you cant force its way and will on India. But being overly cautious has its downfalls, when you want to gather steam and develop quicker, you got to take opportunity as it comes. Of course place safeguards to protect your interests but many times, its not foreign elements corrupting and impeding India, its our own ppl in local govt. Just ask the common man in India.


"There is nothing like a good or ideal bureaucracy."

Again you are reaching too far.....there are you just haven;t looked hard enough. Would you like me to point a few good ones? But before I do so, what is your defintion of good or ideal? Anything better than India could be good right? This is a characteristic I noticed in many Indians and its very bad. Nothing wrong with blind patriotism but it will lead you to a blind alley. You need to open your eyes to the facts and realize we have a lot to correct and we are not perfect but the reasons for not being should put us to shame.
 
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You are entitled to your opinion but if you are incorrect, I think someone should point it out to you. The US is ready to get this ball moving, and likewise Military personnel in India have the same desire, but our bureacracy in India is truely 4th world. Im not saying the US is perfect but trust me comparing India to US in terms of burecracy is ridiculous. I'll even go out on a limb and agree the US has some issue but you are kidding yourself if you think the US is impeding the momentum in this relationship. India has a lot of insecurity and its based on history but times are changing. ANd the US has learned you cant force its way and will on India. But being overly cautious has its downfalls, when you want to gather steam and develop quicker, you got to take opportunity as it comes. Of course place safeguards to protect your interests but many times, its not foreign elements corrupting and impeding India, its our own ppl in local govt. Just ask the common man in India.


"There is nothing like a good or ideal bureaucracy."

The US is ready to roll when it suites its purpose, India has to keep in mind Russia and China its nearest neighbors.

India has good relations with many countries and is focusing on strengthening itself first before it wades in the murky waters of alignment and Security scenarios.

Obviously, it does not mean India is right in everything, there are pros and cons to everything. However, I feel the current momentum can be spiced a bit, but overall it is good enough.
 
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IMO the so called defense experts may have overlooked one significant point... May be we are not so eager to expand defense co-op with USA because we don't want to blindly trust any country. With USA's history of spectacular 180 degree turnabouts in foreign policies, we are justified to be extra cautious!! E.G. Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Taliban, china... you name it. Better to be slow than to be betrayed!
 
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I think this is a convennient excuse the USG is giving to the fact that India hasn't just lied done and let itself be walked over by the US after so much promise after 2008 Nuke deal. The deal was sold to the US public as a way the US would be able to control an up and coming global power especially against China. The fact is that since then things between INdia haven't gone to the US's script- India and the US are closer but those pesky Indians won't tow the party line on every issue.From watching many US news shows and reading many articles in US paper it seems the US electroate see things in very black and white- either you are with the US or against them. So when the USG is saying the 2008 will herald a new great relationship that will change the course of history to its people the US people start to see India as another Japan,UK or Australia but then when India refuses to impose full sanctions on Iran, doesn't select a US fighter in the MMRCA, doesn't engage in activities to ensure the US energy companies dominate the Indian energy sector, voting against certain US-led movements in the UN etc it seems to confuse the US public and ask the question whether India is a freind or enemy. Things obviously aren't so clear cut-India is a freind of the US as shown by the DRAMATIC increase in military ties (the US holds more military exs with India than any other single nation aswell as US defence companies scoring 10s of Billions in buissness in the past few years), more working groups, closer diplomatic ties, more FDI etc but also is too big and too proud to come under the US's will fully. INdia will do what best suits it and some times that is with the US and sometimes it has to go against it.


The US public and to some extent the USG seem to have mis-read the situation and are a little surprised/shocked at some of India's actions. This is a pretty weak excuse to try and give an explanation for why India just isn't turning into the UK ie a US poodle.
 
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IMO the so called defense experts may have overlooked one significant point... May be we are not so eager to expand defense co-op with USA because we don't want to blindly trust any country. With USA's history of spectacular 180 degree turnabouts in foreign policies, we are justified to be extra cautious!! E.G. Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Taliban, china... you name it. Better to be slow than to be betrayed!




I agree with that 110%. India has to look out for its benefit first and foremost. Im just saying that sleep thru it.......as we all know ....India;s govt can move at snail;s pace.

The US is ready to roll when it suites its purpose, India has to keep in mind Russia and China its nearest neighbors.

India has good relations with many countries and is focusing on strengthening itself first before it wades in the murky waters of alignment and Security scenarios.

Obviously, it does not mean India is right in everything, there are pros and cons to everything. However, I feel the current moment can be spiced a bit, but overall it is good enough.


I agree with your assessment. India just need to keep focused on its core interests first, I just hope they don;t squander away a great opportunity
 
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I agree with that 110%. India has to look out for its benefit first and foremost. Im just saying that sleep thru it.......as we all know ....India;s govt can move at snail;s pace.




I agree with your assessment. India just need to keep focused on its core interests first, I just hope they don;t squander away a great opportunity

Yes, we might be missing a great opportunity if we move slow. But, when we are talking about a country which will looks at its own interest first and has started courting us because we are growing fast should ring some alarms.

We can take it slow and US knows this, if they want us to run with them then it is better to forgo an opportunity which can potentially let us fall in a ditch. And frankly, the urgency shown by US is unsettling when some economic and military co-operation seems enough..
 
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I think this is a convennient excuse the USG is giving to the fact that India hasn't just lied done and let itself be walked over by the US after so much promise after 2008 Nuke deal. The deal was sold to the US public as a way the US would be able to control an up and coming global power especially against China. The fact is that since then things between INdia haven't gone to the US's script- India and the US are closer but those pesky Indians won't tow the party line on every issue.From watching many US news shows and reading many articles in US paper it seems the US electroate see things in very black and white- either you are with the US or against them. So when the USG is saying the 2008 will herald a new great relationship that will change the course of history to its people the US people start to see India as another Japan,UK or Australia but then when India refuses to impose full sanctions on Iran, doesn't select a US fighter in the MMRCA, doesn't engage in activities to ensure the US energy companies dominate the Indian energy sector, voting against certain US-led movements in the UN etc it seems to confuse the US public and ask the question whether India is a freind or enemy. Things obviously aren't so clear cut-India is a freind of the US as shown by the DRAMATIC increase in military ties (the US holds more military exs with India than any other single nation aswell as US defence companies scoring 10s of Billions in buissness in the past few years), more working groups, closer diplomatic ties, more FDI etc but also is too big and too proud to come under the US's will fully. INdia will do what best suits it and some times that is with the US and sometimes it has to go against it.


The US public and to some extent the USG seem to have mis-read the situation and are a little surprised/shocked at some of India's actions. This is a pretty weak excuse to try and give an explanation for why India just isn't turning into the UK ie a US poodle.



Good assessment and overall spot on. I also think we are fogetting we have one major common foe. India;s size and leadership is an asset any nation in the world would want to have on its side. I think the biggest issue is the indian govt is formed by so many players its hard to appease everyone. And everyone has their own insights as to what kind of relationship they want with the US. The US shouldn;t force itself coz cheap politics in India will accuse each other of kowtowing to US interests, especially the COmmunists. India needs to realize our political system is not free of foreign influence as we have seen how our very own Communists can be manipulated by other interests regardless of India;s security. Im not saying India should have to bend over backwards to every US demand. In fact doing so would destroy indian credibility on the world stage which is something our enemies are hoping for so they can jump on that. In fact, since we have embraced the US more than usual you can see positives and negatives but that is inevitable. Our military realtionship should not be compromised and that;s what I am saying. The US allies that great access to their tech have stuck by the US for decades. This is not an overnight issue but we INdians have a lot of pressures with certain neighbors. Keep our eye on the ball. And as for the news in the US, you are right they tend to portray certain views which I find appalling since there should be free media. The fact is that we have more in common than ppl think, and naturally we will join foces easier if we stop pushing it too hard.
 
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Yes, we might be missing a great opportunity if we move slow. But, when we are talking about a country which will looks at its own interest first and has started courting us because we are growing fast should ring some alarms.

We can take it slow and US knows this, if they want us to run with them then it is better to forgo an opportunity which can potentially let us fall in a ditch. And frankly, the urgency shown by US is unsettling when some economic and military co-operation seems enough..



The US is not jumping on us coz we are growing economically which is great btw, even though that has become an issue also. Its the Chinese position. Nobody is trying to ring alarms but the writing is all over the wall. Who is supporting failed states? Who is providing nuke tech and missiles? Who is hiding behind secrecy. What is their intent? Im sure you all know whom I am referring to. Everytime India bends over backwards and trys to fix the relationship it gets hit back hard. You don;t have to believe me, you can clearly see it yourself. Just like at the visa issue and border claims. In order to be prepared, the time is now. Waiting and taking a snail pace on key military issues will slow our preparedness. These are issues that require planning and effort now. The Chinese can implement change almost immediately at a notice. Democracies like India cannot. We are not there yet. Kargil was won coz of US /Israeli cooperation and their allies, don;t forget that.
 
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Yes, we might be missing a great opportunity if we move slow. But, when we are talking about a country which will looks at its own interest first and has started courting us because we are growing fast should ring some alarms.

We can take it slow and US knows this, if they want us to run with them then it is better to forgo an opportunity which can potentially let us fall in a ditch. And frankly, the urgency shown by US is unsettling when some economic and military co-operation seems enough..



Bill Clinton made the first substantial move back in 1996-1997. Even then it wasn't moving anywhere due to the nuke blasts. NSA woke up to the reality that China was prepping Pakistan to have an advantage over anything we India did. That is a fact. Of course, nobody wants to jump the gun so India opened more dialogue with the US but kept a close eye on Chinese-Pak relations. This is stuff that is not spoken openly. The Chinese counted on India's NAM to undermine it. It felt it would never open up to the West and was counting on it.
 
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You are entitled to your opinion but if you are incorrect, I think someone should point it out to you. The US is ready to get this ball moving, and likewise Military personnel in India have the same desire, but our bureacracy in India is truely 4th world. Im not saying the US is perfect but trust me comparing India to US in terms of burecracy is ridiculous. I'll even go out on a limb and agree the US has some issue but you are kidding yourself if you think the US is impeding the momentum in this relationship. India has a lot of insecurity and its based on history but times are changing. ANd the US has learned you cant force its way and will on India. But being overly cautious has its downfalls, when you want to gather steam and develop quicker, you got to take opportunity as it comes. Of course place safeguards to protect your interests but many times, its not foreign elements corrupting and impeding India, its our own ppl in local govt. Just ask the common man in India.


"There is nothing like a good or ideal bureaucracy."

Again you are reaching too far.....there are you just haven;t looked hard enough. Would you like me to point a few good ones? But before I do so, what is your defintion of good or ideal? Anything better than India could be good right? This is a characteristic I noticed in many Indians and its very bad. Nothing wrong with blind patriotism but it will lead you to a blind alley. You need to open your eyes to the facts and realize we have a lot to correct and we are not perfect but the reasons for not being should put us to shame.
Just ask the common man in India ??? You are talking to one

Someone should point out ??? . What ??? You have pointed out nothing. Did you read my first statement ??? You are thinking only in current perspectives. I write I had same opinion about US burocrates few years ago. And nobody is blindly following anything. USA isn't anybody's friend except its interests. India should get as much as it can before their point of interests change. I agree that

Now do you really want me to post the things done by US bureaucracy that didn't allow India to trust US ???
And why are you dragging the plane argument. Point out where I am wrong and NOT the theory that how should India get its benefits. I made a simple statement I stand correct there. Prove me wrong by giving any example that US bureaucracy had helped to improve defence relation with India in past. situation is changing though so you would find some in next few years


As I said earlier go ahead point out something I don't know.

Out of context but a worthy mention:
India has maintained a good depolmatic relation with many countries which are enemy of each other. USA has yet to achieve that. So I guess Indian burocrate +1 here ;) even though I know they suck in many domestic issues
 
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