Indian-built Scorpene to carry critical DRDO system

[Mujraparty]

india’s defence establishment will be fully responsible for a DRDO-developed critical propulsion system that will go into the last two of the six Scorpene submarines being built under technology transfer at Mazagon Dock, Mumbai, say the original makers of the submarine.

The system, called air-independent propulsion (AIP), enhances the underwater endurance of conventional (diesel-electric) submarines. Without it, they are forced to surface to periscope depth to recharge their batteries — a position where they are most susceptible to detection — at more frequent intervals.

The French defence shipbuilding major DCNS has put its own second-generation hydrogen fuel cell AIP system on the block. It maintains that the DRDO will be “fully responsible for the process” of the AIP it is developing for fitment on the submarines.

Refusing to entertain queries on the performance parameters and safety of the DRDO’s phosphoric acid fuel cell AIP, which sources told The Hindu would be ready for trials next February, Philippe Berger, former submariner and submarines operational marketing manager of DCNS, said while the company’s first-generation Mesma AIP, powering Pakistan’s Agosta 90B submarines, offered a dived endurance of two weeks, its advanced fuel cell AIP enhanced it to three weeks. “Without AIP, Scorpenes can stay underwater for four days,” he said. “Our scheme is limited to integrating safely the DRDO-developed AIP plug to the submarine. We are working on designing the hull section in detail for this,” Mr. Berger told Indian journalists at the DCNS facility, which houses the “fully tested operational-scale fuel cell AIP.”

Indian-built Scorpene to carry critical DRDO system - The Hindu

 

[Astra-2013]

wow DRDO aip in scorpene.
and i think sonars will also be indian origin.

 

[Sahasranama]

DRDO AIP is supposed to give 3 weeks of underwater operations. This is pretty good by any standard.

 

[Sahasranama]

Indian Navy LPD to feature electric propulsion, upbeat on DRDO Fuel Cell AIPFrontier India | Frontier India

Mumbai: India will feature an electric propulsion for its future LPD (Landing Platform Docks) project and the Navy – DRDO Fuel Cell AIP will be ready for submarine refits, said Indian Navy officials during an SMM India (subsidiary of maritime trade fair SMM Hamburg) hosted event on 4th and 5th April.

Indian Navy had used an electric propulsion for its Hindustan Shipyard Limited built Survey vessel INS Darshak, but it was a Direct Current (DC) unit. The DC is seen in submarines, but it could not be adopted for surface ships. There are plans to adopt a shaft propulsion on LPD instead of a Pod propulsion as in the Mistral class which evinced heated arguments. In its LPD RFI, Indian Navy has asked for information for both twin shaft configuration, with twin rudders and Fixed Pitch Propellers; and shock graded podded propulsion.

Says Commodore (Retd) Ranjit B. Rai “The Indian Navy has always kept up with the “The Jones” and looked ahead . It did enter Nuclear Propulsion for submarines and soon INS Arihant will be at sea on Nuclear power. For surface ships and for futuristic propulsion the IN is looking at Electric Propulsion, which is now in the Type 45 Daring class of UK and and DDX of USA, for its LPDs for which an RFP is being issued. The only argument that took place when the Navy said it planned Shaft Based Propulsion at the SMM Conference instead of direct AC drive to the propeller pod as in the Mistral. Industry and retired Navy experts cautioned that Pod Propulsion was better, cheaper and easier to install. The only reason one could attribute to Navy’s choice is the fear of war and damage caused by a small missile fired in an India Pakistan scenario.”

Rear Admiral DM Deshpande, VSM, DG Project – 75 (Scorpenes) Naval Head Quarters, who spoke about electric propulsion for future Indian submarines, described the Navy – DRDO fuel cell system, which was progressing. He named 10 companies involved in the AIP project led by L&T at NMRL ( Naval Materials Research Laboratory ) Ambarnath. The ten companies involved in Indian AIP propulsion design include Thermax, IOCL, L&T, Texol, Indian Institute of Petroleum, AKSA, CDAC, Gigitronics, ROLTA and MDL. DRDO units involved in the project are NMRL, CEEFES, NSTL, RCI and NPOL.

The Hydrogen based Indian AIP design has no Carbon Dioxide (unique to French MESMA) emission. The waste products are stored in a separate container in slurry form. Since there are no emissions into the water, there are less chances of the submarine being detected. In addition to upcoming Project 75 (I) submarines, DRDO AIP can also be deployed in existing HDW T-1500 submarines (Shishumar Class) in Indian Navy service.

On submarine indigenisation, Rear Admiral Deshpande said a lot Indian systems will be incorporated in the P-75 (I) submarines, including water cooled propulsion system, switchboards, 415 V NES -607 transformer board, 6.6 kv circuit breaker etc, which have been learnt through the Project 75 project.

 

[Sahasranama]

More Information about DRDO AIP Fuel cells.

DRDO working on system to cut submarine vulnerability - The Hindu

Work is apace at the Defence Research and Development Organisation's Naval Materials Research Laboratory at Ambernath in Maharashtra on developing a land-based prototype plug, and subsequently an engineered, operational version of an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system that will significantly cut the ‘indiscretion rate' of diesel and electric submarines.

The ‘indiscretion rate' is the percentage of time a submarine spends snorting when it is most vulnerable.

By eliminating the need for conventional submarines to frequently resurface for recharging batteries by breathing in air, it would considerably enhance their sub-surface endurance.

Talking to The Hindu here recently, J. Narayana Das, DRDO's Chief Controller, Research and Development (Naval Systems, Materials and Human Resources), said the Navy was satisfied with the DRDO's proposal. “We are first having a land-based demonstrator. And, as we progress, we will concurrently start an engineered version because engineering anything for a submarine platform is a completely different ballgame.”

(Incidentally, The Hindu has learnt from sources in the Navy that it has asked the DRDO to come up with a fully engineered fuel cell AIP by 2014 for possible use in the last two of the six Scorpene submarines being built in Mumbai's Mazagaon Dock. The Navy has also given sanction for the land-based prototype AIP in August this year.)

Asked about the recent offer of French defence major DCNS to install its MESMA AIP in the last two Scorpenes, Mr. Das said he wouldn't want to commit on the platform that would have the indigenous AIP fitted. “It depends on which platform will be ready and which will come in then.”

With the Navy

“We are working in tandem with the Navy as we don't have any other customer for the project. It will be ready in four to five years from now. The technology development is going on, and at an appropriate time, we will start marinisation and engineering for submarine quality. We are going to have industrial partners with us... Whatever we install will be on an operational submarine,” Mr. Das said.

Safety ensured

Explaining the technologies available for improving the sub-surface endurance of conventional submarines, he said the AIP being developed by the DRDO also ensured a higher level of safety to the submarine.

“In our technology, we generate hydrogen online on an as-needed basis. If you need more hydrogen when you are going fast, you produce more hydrogen and if you need less hydrogen, you produce less of it. The policy is ‘do not store hydrogen on board,' which ensures a higher level of safety to the platform. Also, we use fuel cells of a different type — phosphoric acid fuel cells — as they can tolerate slightly impure hydrogen. This is because when you produce hydrogen on board, you cannot have very pure hydrogen whereas other companies making fuel cell-based AIP are using PEM (proton exchange membrane) fuel cell, which necessitates hydrogen to be of ‘five-nines' quality, meaning 99.999 percent pure,” he said.

Hydrogen

“The AIP developed by the DCNS, on the contrary, worked on combustion of fuel using a steam turbine and producing electricity,” Mr. Das said. “Some other companies are using fuel cells themselves. They keep hydrogen stored on board. But if you want to be underwater for longer durations, you need larger quantities of hydrogen. Oxygen is required, but both systems use oxygen which is stored as [cryogenic] liquid oxygen…. And when you talk of a submarine's power system, the hydrogen you need is in the order of a couple of tonnes. Further, it has to be carried either in metal hydrides or in compressed cylinders. But high-pressure hydrogen is a potential explosive hazard.”

 

[GURU DUTT]

so DRDO is agin going to screw indian defence big time

 

[Sahasranama]

so DRDO is agin going to screw indian defence big time

What ? The article posted above show that DRDO made AIP is FAR better than any other foreign made AIP.

 

[GURU DUTT]

What ? The article posted above show that DRDO made AIP is FAR better than any other foreign made AIP.

janeman thing is if thatthing was so good why dint DRDO .. khair jane do u know what i mean

 

[Sahasranama]

janeman thing is if thatthing was so good why dint DRDO .. khair jane do u know what i mean

No. I have NO idea what you mean. Why don't you elaborate ?

This is the photo of the early model of Phosphorous Acid Fuel Cell developed by DRDO right back in 2000.

 

[GURU DUTT]

No. I have NO idea what you mean. Why don't you elaborate ?

the truth of the pudding is in eating it and we all know DRDO/chai biskit organisation is onli good at two things

1. delays , dealsys and more delays

2.making bigger announcements than they could ever fufill

and at last the same old story = import it from vendor (now at twice the cost)

 

[Sahasranama]

the truth of the pudding is in eating it and we all know DRDO/chai biskit organisation is onli good at two things

1. delays , dealsys and more delays

2.making bigger announcements than they could ever fufill

and at last the same old story = import it from vendor (now at twice the cost)

Do not include me in your "WE".

DRDO does much more than people who post in pdf. Delays are normal with people who actually do some work. People who has never done anything, suffer no delays.

So far EVERY DRDO announcements they have made has been fulfilled. Why don't you give me an example of what they have not full filled ?

 

[Sahasranama]

www.abdulkalam.com

As per Sri. Abdul Kalam, Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cell (PAFC) technologies and fuel cell are also used in an electric car company in collaboration with DRDO, a hybrid vehicle which can be run with a fuel cell and the cost per kilometre will be just 40 paise which is less than one cent, in addition to the pollution free operation of the car.

I

 

[sancho]

so DRDO is agin going to screw indian defence big time

More or less, the fact that the first 4 won't have AIP clearly is based on the DRDO development and is a crucial capability gap for IN. What's more interesting now is, how good, reliable their system is and how difficult it will be to implement it into the Scorpene, which wasn't designed for the DRDO system. So we have to wait and see how the trials in Feb and the design changes of the hull will workout, to see if it was worth it to limit IN to just 2 AIP subs.

 

[Abingdonboy]

the truth of the pudding is in eating it and we all know DRDO/chai biskit organisation is onli good at two things

1. delays , dealsys and more delays

2.making bigger announcements than they could ever fufill

and at last the same old story = import it from vendor (now at twice the cost)

Don't make sweeping generalisations like this. The DRDO is starting to produce more and more successes as its budget is being ramped up and thus its ability to deliver. They are slowly but surely eroding their image of constant delays and failures.