Indian Brahmos missle crashes in Mian Channo

[Chris Logan]

It just goes to show Pakistan is vulnerable to a first strike, it will take about mins for India to hit our cities with nukes with hypersonic missiles. The EM from the nukes would knock out all the communication lines, power and command and control centers. Time for Pakistan to make or buy nuke subs as a matter of urgency.

yes, but the question is, can you do it financially? Lets say that it wasn't an accident, a Sub takes 100s of Millions of USD. Now would it be in Indias best interest to misdirect Pakistan? Keep it on its toes?

Pakistan is paying the price for abandoning Strategic Depth and adapting Strategic Incompetence.

6 major military escalations in 3 years with only 1 response.

Day	Date	Incident	Location	Response
Tuesday	26 February 2019	India launches air strikes on Pakistan	Balakot, KPK	Operation Swift Retort by PAF
Monday	04 March 2019	Indian submarine intercepted by Pakistan Navy as it tried to enter Pakistani waters.	Pakistani Territorial Waters	None
Monday	05 August 2019	India annexes Indian Occupied Kashmir	Internationally recognised disputed area	None
Saturday	16 October 2021	Indian submarine intercepted by Pakistan Navy as it tried to enter Pakistani waters.	Pakistani Territorial Waters	None
Tuesday	01 March 2022	India's Kalveri Class submarine intercepted by Pakistan Navy as it tried to enter Pakistani waters.	Pakistani Territorial Waters	None
Wednesday	09 March 2022	India fires a cruise missile on Pakistan.	Mian Channu, Punjab	None

Pakistani conventional detterent is being aggressively challenged and it is eroding fast due to lack of appropriate response.

strategic depth doesnt work. The Taliban are no longer dependent on Pak. They will seek other Beneficiaries. You tried it for 30 years and are now the TTP and the BNA are rampant in Balochistan.

 

[The Eagle]

BTW, @The Eagle what is the threshold of profanity where one should get a warning, considering, I got one for saying A**h***. I even used stars to mask the offensiveness.

Same as like that missile was unarmed and fired incidentally but still, it was something not to be ignored. I am sure I have been helpful to explain it simply. Interestingly you have accepted the same way Indians did in this case

 

[GumNaam]

both are your own speculations.. live with them

as you live with your insecurities...

 

[graphican]

Americans blamed us for reverse engineering their tomahawk when it fell in Pakistan and we tested Babur

I wonder when are we going to test Humayoun or Akbar after we have a copy of Brahmos

Not sure how much of missile is left to reverse engineer but we can test Humayoun and Akbar that looks like Brahmoos within a few months. It will be fun to see Indians suffering from mental cramps.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Considering that the Pakistanis were able to track the missile for almost its entire flight,

Assuming that the graphic was in some way accurate, it was seven minutes.

Assuming that the distance traversed was 300 kms., it would have been 300 seconds, or five minutes.

Why impossible?

Using Skyguard III to destroy a Hypersonic target

Is it possible to destroy a .... lets say sea-skimming cruise missile traveling with a speed of 3 km/s (10 mach) ??? In this scenario, the Air Defence System (Skyguard 3) is the actual target of the hypersonic CM. As I understand, the FCR will detect the missile and then the guns will open...

defence.pk

Considering that the Pakistanis were able to track the missile for almost its entire flight, two or three surface-to-air ALCOS guided missiles fired at it should have a good kill probability - that is, unless it performs some sort of evasive manoeuvres. Or at least that is what I understand.

@Joe Shearer

You've made your point.

IF there had been a CIWS at Mian Channu, located AT that spot, it would have been possible to shoot the missile down.

What would be your conclusion if such a incident had happened from Pakistan side.

Deep suspicion.

However, at the risk of seeming abrasive, that would be partly based on appreciating that the Pakistan Army uses 'stealth' as a tactic.

 

[khansaheeb]

yes, but the question is, can you do it financially? Lets say that it wasn't an accident, a Sub takes 100s of Millions of USD. Now would it be in Indias best interest to misdirect Pakistan? Keep it on its toes?


strategic depth doesnt work. The Taliban are no longer dependent on Pak. They will seek other Beneficiaries. You tried it for 30 years and are now the TTP and the BNA are rampant in Balochistan.

Whatever the cost, Pakistan will spend and do whatever it takes to keep the nation secure.

 

[Rollno21]

It has already eroded. Cruise missile attack is highest level of escalation but it's nothing for us. No worries. next time, may be Karachi bombed. No worries. Indian forces in lahore? No worries. probably mistake by India. Whatever we are doing is laughable and excuses are clearly a sign of weakness. Abrogation means end of conflict, Kashmir goes to India. No worries.

Common mate , what do you expect them to do,first they had no clue for sometime as to what happened,then they have to answer why it was nit shot down if it was being tracked as stated.

And most important is does Pakistan have what it takes to escalate the situation.

 

[khansaheeb]

Common mate , what do you expect them to do,first they had no clue for sometime as to what happened,then they have to answer why it was nit shot down if it was being tracked as stated.

And most important is does Pakistan have what it takes to escalate the situation.

Can India stomach an escalation? You tried it on Feb 2017 and you tried an artillery duel on the Kashmir border and both times got a good kicking.

 

[RAMPAGE]

Assuming that the graphic was in some way accurate, it was seven minutes.

Assuming that the distance traversed was 300 kms., it would have been 300 seconds, or five minutes.

You've made your point.

IF there had been a CIWS at Mian Channu, located AT that spot, it would have been possible to shoot the missile down.


Deep suspicion.

However, at the risk of seeming abrasive, that would be partly based on appreciating that the Pakistan Army uses 'stealth' as a tactic.

CIWS does not seem suited to intercept hypersonic missiles. As you must have read, the hypersonic debris by itself could be very damaging. The interception needs to take place at a greater distance. For point defence, I would be very interested in the Swedish RBS-23: an RBS-70 with a booster and ALCOS. Simple, mobile, and effective. Wish we had got those instead of the FM90s.

 

[Rollno21]

Can India stomach an escalation? You tried it on Feb 2017 and you tried an artillery duel on the Kashmir border and both times got a good kicking.

Please don't talk like a kid please ,please ask any sane pakistani expert ,they will tell you that Pakistan can match or some time out match India when the conflict is restricted to a small area,but once conflict spreads pakistans problems will getting bigger and bigger.

What do you mean by can India escalate ,of course we do. Otherwise ,india would not have said they conducted surgical strikes or bomber the pakistani side by crossing over the loc.

 

[Joe Shearer]

CIWS does not seem suited to intercept hypersonic missiles. As you must have read, the hypersonic debris by itself could be very damaging. The interception needs to take place at a greater distance. For point defence, I would be very interested in the Swedish RBS-23: an RBS-70 with a booster and ALCOS. Simple, mobile, and effective. Wish we had got those instead of the FM90s.

True.

I made a mistake in being so categorical about the difficulties of shooting down a supersonic projectile, leave alone a hypersonic one, but duly corrected, the point stands. As of current preparedness, it would not have been possible for Pakistani defensive forces to shoot down a Brahmos.

Even a ballistic missile defence might not have worked.

 

[RAMPAGE]

True.

I made a mistake in being so categorical about the difficulties of shooting down a supersonic projectile, leave alone a hypersonic one, but duly corrected, the point stands. As of current preparedness, it would not have been possible for Pakistani defensive forces to shoot down a Brahmos.

Even a ballistic missile defence might not have worked.

Not in Mian Channu, no.

I think the AD hardware guarding strategic locations is sufficient but, after this incident, more AI automation needs to be carried out. For instance, if the C4ISR picks up a bogey consistently flying at supersonic speed, it should be escalated to a priority target for all AD systems capable of intercepting it no matter their location or the flight path of the missile. As soon as the missile approaches the guarded airspace of a strategic location or the no-escape zone of an AD system, it should be fired at with any number of missiles that result in a high probability of interception.

Of course, all this requires extensive mock drills, which would use expensive, imported SAMs and supersonic ASMs and SSMs (not sure if we have any supersonic surface-to-surface cruise missiles). This is one of the reasons why we need local SAMs and supersonic ASMs and SSMs.

 

[Joe Shearer]

On the lighter side…….

I know the reason for this Indian cruise missile misfire! russia has disabled all these weapons and sent a dud to Pakistan as Proof!

When Imran khan went to Russia there was a personal and more important reason as stated by the PM “he is excited to be there”

Recently Vladimir Putins second daughter Katerina Tikhonova was divorced and Putin like any good father wants the best for her!

View attachment 823669

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katerina_Tikhonova

What better man than the handsome sportsman prime minister of Pakistan Imran Khan. You can see this closeness by how close Putin sat to imran khan in their meeting!
View attachment 823668


The dowry imran asked for is the Indian military and now Russia has disabled all of India’s Brahmose missiles and as proof of this has remotely fired a dud towards Pakistan.


Please leave a laugh if you agree with my sound reasoning

@Joe Shearer can you please confirm this news!!!



K

It is distinctly possible.

Not in Mian Channu, no.

I think the AD hardware guarding strategic locations is sufficient but, after this incident, more AI automation needs to be carried out. For instance, if the C4ISR picks up a bogey consistently flying at supersonic speed, it should be escalated to a priority target for all AD systems capable of intercepting it no matter their location or the flight path of the missile. As soon as the missile approaches the guarded airspace of a strategic location, it should be fired at with any number of missiles that result in a high probability of interception.

Of course, all this requires extensive mock drills, which would use expensive, imported SAMs and supersonic ASMs and SSMs (not sure if we have any supersonic surface-to-surface cruise missiles). This is one of the reasons why we need local SAMs and supersonic ASMs and SSMs.

I should imagine that an even more important pre-requisite is an electronic blast proof very high speed buried optical fibre network that connects all defence weaponry to decision sites to sensor locations.

Without that, you can put gadgets and shiny new machines till the cows come home, and nothing will have improved.

On the lighter side…….

I know the reason for this Indian cruise missile misfire! russia has disabled all these weapons and sent a dud to Pakistan as Proof!

When Imran khan went to Russia there was a personal and more important reason as stated by the PM “he is excited to be there”

Recently Vladimir Putins second daughter Katerina Tikhonova was divorced and Putin like any good father wants the best for her!

View attachment 823669

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katerina_Tikhonova

What better man than the handsome sportsman prime minister of Pakistan Imran Khan. You can see this closeness by how close Putin sat to imran khan in their meeting!
View attachment 823668


The dowry imran asked for is the Indian military and now Russia has disabled all of India’s Brahmose missiles and as proof of this has remotely fired a dud towards Pakistan.


Please leave a laugh if you agree with my sound reasoning

@Joe Shearer can you please confirm this news!!!



K

I am sorry to inform you that an alternative theory is going the rounds.

Please don't talk like a kid please ,please ask any sane pakistani expert ,they will tell you that Pakistan can match or some time out match India when the conflict is restricted to a small area,but once conflict spreads pakistans problems will getting bigger and bigger.

What do you mean by can India escalate ,of course we do. Otherwise ,india would not have said they conducted surgical strikes or bomber the pakistani side by crossing over the loc.

I'm afraid he is right.

The only factor that has protected Pakistan (militarily) has been the inability of the Indian military to integrate all its assets and to act in a coordinated manner.

The day it has integrated all its assets and has the leadership trained to move in a coordinated manner will be a day of serious introspection for Pakistan - the phrase is not intended to convey sarcasm or hostility, please do not take it to be such.

 

[RAMPAGE]

It is distinctly possible.


I should imagine that an even more important pre-requisite is an electronic blast proof very high speed buried optical fibre network that connects all defence weaponry to decision sites to sensor locations.

Without that, you can put gadgets and shiny new machines till the cows come home, and nothing will have improved.


I am sorry to inform you that an alternative theory is going the rounds.

Yep, that's the C4ISR. Your side used to have an upper hand in the ISR sphere, with your satellites and all, but we came up with an indigenous C4ISR a few years ago. There were hints that we developed something similar to Link-16.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yep, that's the C4ISR. Your side used to have an upper hand in the ISR sphere, with your satellites and all, but we came up with an indigenous C4ISR a few years ago. There were hints that we developed something similar to Link-16.

All this is theoretical now, as far as I am concerned.