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Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make more Tejas Mark-2s & focus on AMCA fighter jets

We don’t underestimate not overestimate our enemy. India has had the help of the entire Western world including Russia. From engines to blueprints and even first hand help. It just hasn’t worked for India. There is no harm in acknowledging these realities.

Now the West is pitching their fighters to India and even those corruption ridden deals are anything, but smooth sailing.
they gain a lots of experience through LCA project and next AMCA or Mark-2 project will be lot better LCA project because LCA project is their first attempt @maximuswarrior
 
Not an expert, but my thinking is that, One should do things in which they are expert and buy non-expert from outside. India is good at Tech, Innovation, Pharma, Service sector. So why not just make huge amount of money in those field and acquire defense from USA, Israel, French.
 
By failing do you mean dreaming about becoming $5T economy? I think they are already near $3T.


Few personnel observation, might not be related to topic. In Silicon valley, Indian CEO are considered smart and they keep moving jobs to India. MSFT, Google itself moved huge amount of American jobs to India. At least in some sector i would say Indian know how to do great things. Aviation might not be the one.


By Arrogance do you mean Doklam? or Balakot?
By arrogance is arrogance.
Arrogance leads to complacency - if the team developing AMCA relies too much on their self-belief in systems they may not have key knowledge on then they will fail.

The same applies to an Indian working in Silicon Valley.
Indians have one Huge advantage over Pakistanis is that in my experience they are generally more sincere to their nation as a symbol of pride. Which lets them push jobs and personnel back.
That doesn’t mean that there arent the same percentage of unscrupulous bad apples same as Pakistan; but that just by sheer population size(1 Billion versus 280 million) they are always going to be doing more good more often for their country than Pakistanis. It is also why they plan for 20 years and see the advantage of exploiting cheaper labor in their country.

Pakistanis by inherent flaw consider themselves to be the contributor of pride and an asset to which many of them consider their patriotism some medal to pin to their chest and show off rather than take actual action on it.
Which is why Pakistanis will not make the same effort as Indians to move knowledge back and prefer to hoard it for personal gains only.
 
By arrogance is arrogance.
Arrogance leads to complacency - if the team developing AMCA relies too much on their self-belief in systems they may not have key knowledge on then they will fail.

The same applies to an Indian working in Silicon Valley.
Indians have one Huge advantage over Pakistanis is that in my experience they are generally more sincere to their nation as a symbol of pride. Which lets them push jobs and personnel back.
That doesn’t mean that there arent the same percentage of unscrupulous bad apples same as Pakistan; but that just by sheer population size(1 Billion versus 280 million) they are always going to be doing more good more often for their country than Pakistanis. It is also why they plan for 20 years and see the advantage of exploiting cheaper labor in their country.

Pakistanis by inherent flaw consider themselves to be the contributor of pride and an asset to which many of them consider their patriotism some medal to pin to their chest and show off rather than take actual action on it.
Which is why Pakistanis will not make the same effort as Indians to move knowledge back and prefer to hoard it for personal gains only.
Aviation is not in the their short term DNA. My personnel observation is that this is just keep things float. India will remain a heavy importer for Aviation.
 
Agreed.

As much as Tejas helped mature the Indian aerospace sector, the time has come to apply that knowledge on a future proof aircraft. 180+ orders are good enough for Tejas series both MK1 AND MK2.

AMCA is the future and we badly need something to replace the MiG-29 UPGs and Mirage 2000s.Not to mention.the MiG-27s too.
 
Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make more Tejas Mark-2s & focus on AMCA fighter jets
The fourth generation MWF will probably be ready by end of next decade. China already has two fifth-generation fighter jets, and it can sell to Pakistan.
Yusuf T. Unjhawala Updated: 19 September, 2019 1:49 pm IST
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Light Combat Aircraft Tejas | PTI Photo/Shailendra Bhojak
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To maintain a qualitative edge over its adversaries, put scarce resources to better use and look at over 50 years at the horizon, the Indian Air Force should drop its plan to make 200 fourth generation LCA Tejas Mark-2 fighter jets and focus on the fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft – AMCA – stealth fighter jets.

Otherwise, the Indian Air Force risks the AMCA becoming obsolete on arrival, while flying an even more obsolete LCA Mark-2 jet into the 2070s. Even the Indian Navy requires the AMCA because the Light Combat Aircraft – LCA – that is currently being tested is not good enough for carrier operations.

Also read: Rajnath Singh becomes first defence minister to fly in indigenous Tejas fighter jet

MWF is a bad bet
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has to consider the timeline and the investments being made from an ever-shrinking budget. The LCA is a fourth generation fighter jet and the LCA Mark-2, which is now being converted to the Medium Weight Fighter (MWF) programme, is an entirely new fighter jet that is expected to first fly around 2023. That is if the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and others involved in the project manage to deliver on time, something they are not known for.

Even the LCA Mark 1A, which the IAF wants 83 of, is expected to fly only by 2022.

Although the MWF will draw on the experience and technologies developed for the LCA Mark 1 and the LCA Mark 1A, it is going to be a new fighter jet and will undergo rigorous testing, which will last several years before it is ready for induction and mass production – probably at the end of the next decade.

This is simply not good enough for the IAF, which is grappling with both a drop in its squadron strength and its qualitative edge over adversaries.

China has two fifth generation fighter jets. The twin-engine heavy fighter, the J-20, is already in service and in squadron strength in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF). China is also developing a medium weight fifth generation fighter, the FC-31, which is likely to be exported to potential customers. Pakistan could be its first.

The LCA programme development has already cost India over Rs 10,000 crore. The cost of the LCA Mark 1A has shot up. The 83 Mark 1As are going to cost Rs 45,000 crore, which is about Rs 542 crore each, or $77 million. Compare this to the production cost of the American F-35 fifth generation fighter jet. By leveraging economies of scale, advanced and efficient production methods, the cost of the F-35 has been brought down to less than $80 million each. The LCA Mark-2 is likely to cost much more, probably close to $90-$100 million – very expensive for a homegrown fourth generation fighter jet. The comparable SAAB Gripen E, costs about $85 million.

Investing further into the programme for a jet that will only be ready by the end of the next decade is not wise. The IAF should instead cancel the MWF programme and focus on the AMCA.

Also read: India to receive Russian S-400 Triumf missiles by 2023, despite threat of US sanctions

Focus on AMCA
The AMCA has already been shelved once because the entire focus was on the development of the LCA. However, work on its design has been going on. The IAF should define the qualitative requirements and throw its weight behind the AMCA instead of funding the fourth generation MWF.

Barring the Su-30 MKI and the Rafales that are going to be inducted soon, the entire current inventory of MiG-29, Jaguar and Mirage in the IAF will be phased out by 2035-2040. That is about 250 fighter jets. Even first of the Su-30s will be over 40 years old and start getting phased out. Inducting a fourth generation MWF to replace them will not give the IAF a qualitative advantage and makes no sense as the timeline suggests its service life running through to the 2070s.

After India backed out from the joint development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia, because the IAF was not satisfied with both quality and the work share that was proposed, and uncertainty over whether the US will offer the F-35 to India after we bought the Russian S-400 air defence system, the IAF needs a fifth generation option quickly.

The development of the MWF will take away all the money and attention from the critical fifth generation fighter that the IAF needs, and push its introduction beyond the 2030s and induction sometime into the 2040s. By this time, many countries, which are already working on sixth generation fighters, will start its introduction, making the Indian AMCA a generation behind its contemporaries.

Also read: Even after Rafale and other inductions, IAF will have only half of 42-squadron target by 2042

The Indian Navy, which has rejected the LCA for carrier operations, will likely prefer the twin-engine AMCA. The twin-engine jet will give it the requisite power to take off from its ski jump carriers and also carry the sufficiently useful payload, while also giving it stealth capabilities, rather than a naval MWF, which will still be underpowered for carrier operations and not carry sufficient payload.

What the IAF can do in the meantime is increase the order for the Rafale, for which India has sunk in costs for India-specific enhancements. Probably order another 36-54 jets to cover the falling squadron numbers along with the 40 LCA Mark 1 and the planned 83 LCA Mark 1A. India should also cancel the fourth generation MRCA 2.0 programme, which is likely to cost over $15 billion for 110 jets.

If the IAF does not throw its weight behind the AMCA now, it will likely end up with a situation where the development of the AMCA is lagging and it is forced to buy the Russian fifth generation PAK-FA, which it has already declared as not suitable for its requirements. That will set the AMCA programme back and repeat the cycle of imported fighter jets over indigenous ones well into the middle of the century.

The author is editor of Defence Forum India. He is a commentator on defence and strategic affairs. He tweets @YusufDFI. Views are personal.

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What F 35 only at $80 million?
 

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