Indian Air Force News & Discussions

[Bombay]

More of the fiery LCH

Basic design is almost complete and now test flights, and later integrated weapon needs to be done. After that it's ready to roll..

ALso notice the size of the happy team in the first pic.

 

[TheBraveHeart]

More of the fiery LCH

Hey, it seems there are 4 more helos in background, one of which is surely BSF Dhruv, can someone please identify the other three??

Its good to see so many quality pics of the beast...eagerly waiting for IAF colored one now..

 

[KS]

More of the fiery LCH

Basic design is almost complete and now test flights, and later integrated weapon needs to be done. After that it's ready to roll..

ALso notice the size of the happy team in the first pic.

the design is plain superb and add to this the paint scheme...
ahhhhh killer looks...

 

[Kinetic]

More of the fiery LCH

WoW



Looks like a mean killer machine. Indian science and technology came to an edge. They have used a high degree of composite to make it more stealthy, light and better protection against ammunition.

I wish they mount an improved version of BFSR above the rotor.

 

[jha]

what have i heard from a very informative CHAIWALA that two prototypes are ready and both of them are being used for trials...

 

[KS]

Guys which fighter aircraft in the world has the most number of Hardpoints...?

Thx in advance.

 

[KEETARP]

Guys which fighter aircraft in the world has the most number of Hardpoints...?

Thx in advance.

If you take internal weapon bay as well.
PAk-FA has 10 internal + 6 external points

Only external then
Su-35 Fighter + Su-32 Bomber version have 14 ,
Rafale also has 14 , not the marine version though.

And above all F15 have less hard-points than sukhoi but STRIKE-EAGLE version with CFT can have additional bcoz of weapons in its bay inside cft's, look below and missile in this image in cft bay.

F15 can have 15 if configured with CFT's.

Question is how many will you use at a time
F18 growler + A10 used all their always bcoz maneuverability was out of question .

But for fighter well , at a time 4BVR + 2WVR + 1Centerline pod for jamming + 2Wet-Tanks is good for A2A mission.

For strike formation -2BVR + 2WVR + 2-4Ext Bomb stores + 1Targeting pod + 1 Jamming Pod is good + 2 A2S standoff weapon
or Full LGB + Multiple rocket pods

Su-30 in Pune ( my city ) , fly with 2 Jamming pods + 1 Targeting pod + 6 BVR on wings + 3 WVR - I guess that is bcoz of A2A refuelling than use of external tanks.
But in war time , this will change and they will have to carry tanks.

 

[KS]

Guys in th Su30MKI vs Thunder thread in military aviation a member has claimed that the Erieye can guide a missile fired by the JF 17 Thunder and similarly our Phalcon can do the same to the MKI..?
Is it possible..?
Can some learned members clarify..?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Guys in th Su30MKI vs Thunder thread in military aviation a member has claimed that the Erieye can guide a missile fired by the JF 17 Thunder and similarly our Phalcon can do the same to the MKI..?
Is it possible..?
Can some learned members clarify..?

Read about data-linking facility and capability, then may be the concept is cleared to you.

 

[KEETARP]

Guys in th Su30MKI vs Thunder thread in military aviation a member has claimed that the Erieye can guide a missile fired by the JF 17 Thunder and similarly our Phalcon can do the same to the MKI..?
Is it possible..?
Can some learned members clarify..?

Actually its not , possible in theory but not used.
I am not sure which missile is used by JF-17 but in case of su30 ,
non-IR missile like R77, R27t which are either semi-active or completely radar homing missile, give a fire and forget ability bcoz the inbuilt-seeker takes over role after some time.
For that in-phase guidance radar does all work, by tracking and detecting (AWACS does the detection and our radar tracks the target on priority basis and radar only further guides missile.)

Remember why do you need missile codes just to integrate your missile system with jet's radar and avionics. (Launching platform)
If you want to integrate missile's onboard avionics with Awacs then to guide missile indirectly you need very fast ODL (operational data links ).
Its practically possible with very fast system like TIDLS on GRIPEN and NATO-2 std data links but i doubt Russia / Pakistan??? / India have that operational.

Actually if you see that SU-35 promotional video on youtube you will find one of su35 gets jammed , but bcoz of ODL other su-35 gives all info directly on jammed MFD's and subsequently launching the missile by that info, so its possible .
But why you need it ,when Radar guide is much more faster and reliable,
its a matter of seconds outthere for missile with speeds ranging upto 4mach and pulling over 50g .

Now our Phalcon have fully NATO-compatible ODL and also a russian specific one which are currently active.
India has given contract to Israel and French company to put up our own IODL by 2012 which will be lightening fast and combined with dedicated air-force satellite.

Why METEOR is so talked about-
One thing is fully single stage ramjet motor.
Well important other thing i read abt it few months back its onboard sensors have capability to provide back information to jets regarding change of Target's position+Speed and which can be shared by all linked jets , and regularly in-flight updating of missile as well .

Wait to see the future - May be that what would be trend once Airforce around world have a fast ODL

 

[Dash]

Actually its not , possible in theory but not used.
I am not sure which missile is used by JF-17 but in case of su30 ,
non-IR missile like R77, R27t which are either semi-active or completely radar homing missile, give a fire and forget ability bcoz the inbuilt-seeker takes over role after some time.

Quite true.

However here is what I think...

If the missle is on active radar homing mode then it can receive mid course guidance. I read that AIM 120A can receive mid courese guidance via data link.

However here comes teh little issue. Now if the missile is in active radar homing mode then..

Read about data-linking facility and capability, then may be the concept is cleared to you.

the above theory of Taimi khan changes.
If its in Radar homing mode then its solely controlled by the fighter.
So this missile getting fresh target co-ordinates "directly from an AWACS" is out of question.

Unless the AWACS is locked on to the target and contacts the fighter to change its course.

However if the missile is locked on to the target by its own seeker. then I dont think its possible to change its course.

This is what I think, may be wrong..

and yes the link to the article where it says AIM 120 can receive mid course guidance.

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/amraam.htm

 

[Azam Eagle]

A Pakistani Trainer Jet For The Indian Air Force?
April 13, 2010


Here is a chance that India blew to send a strong message for peace with both Pakistan and China. An Egyptian diplomat based in New Delhi apparently offered recently to help Indian Air Force overcome its shabby pilot training program.

According to a report by the Indian magazine Business Standard, the Egyptian official offered a novel solution: An Egyptian Air Force training crew flown from Egypt to India to train Indian pilots using Karakoram-8, the multirole trainer jointly developed by both Pakistan and China and now used by a growing list of countries, including Egypt, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Malaysia, Zimbabwe, Myanmar, Namibia, not to mention the air forces of both Pakistan and China.

Says the Indian magazine: “Since the offer was not followed up in writing, the Indian Air Force (IAF) was spared the embarrassment of having to reply.”


But the Egyptian diplomat was not playing dumb. He knew what he was saying. The Egyptians are no novices in diplomacy. Maybe he was just hoping to make a small indirect breakthrough in India’s tense relationship with both Pakistan and China. Cairo enjoys excellent relations with Islamabad and Beijing.

It would have been a smart move had the Indian air force accepted the offer. New Delhi has close ties to Egypt and extensive military-to-military relations. So there is no question of trust deficit. Using a trainer developed by Pakistan and China would have said a lot about how confident India is about itself. The move would have also made financial and practical sense. Despite India’s massive military procurement program, it’s pilot training record is downright embarrassing. Again, here’s a quote from the same report: “… the IAF’s notoriously unreliable basic trainer, the HPT-32 Deepak, was grounded after a horrific crash that killed two experienced pilots. In 17 Deepak crashes so far, 19 pilots have died.”

This move would have done good where Indian diplomacy in recent years has done little to improve relations with its two neighbors.

The list of Indian hostile messages to Pakistan and China is long [acquiring Pakistan-specific weapon systems, building Pakistan- and China-specific bases near the two borders, quietly supporting terrorism inside China in Tibet in Xinjiang and Inside Pakistan's Balochistan and in cities close to Pakistan's border with India.

The Karakoram-8, and its several recent upgraded models, is jointly developed and produced by China Nanchang Aircraft Manufacturing Corporation and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. The plane is called K-8 Karakorum after the mountain range that separates China and Pakistan. Although it is a trainer, the jet can be used for light air-to-ground combat roles with easy modifications. [See specifications here].

 

[gogbot]

India Develops Requirements For AMCA



India’s Aeronautical Development Agency is evaluating Indian air force requirements for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

The weight of the AMCA will not exceed 25 tons. The twin-engine configured aircraft will have a higher thrust being in the bigger weight category than the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), with an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

The Defense Research & Development Organization (DRDO) had announced earlier this year that the AMCA program would be launched in 2010. While unofficially work has started on the design, according to an official, the AMCA will be officially announced in 6-8 months. “There is nothing official about it… It is currently not a sanctioned project from the government. We are looking at the technical requirements submitted by the Indian air force,” the official told Aerospace DAILY.

The AMCA was earlier called the Medium Combat Aircraft. This [AMCA] is very different from the design of the MCA,” an official says.

The Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) that India is currently evaluating bids for is a 4.5-generation aircraft, an official says. “None of the contenders fall in the stealth configuration, which is the most important consideration for the AMCA.”

India hopes to develop stealth technologies indigenously. “We are looking at stealth features even for the LCA,” the official says. “We believe it can be developed here.”

Not having chosen an engine as yet, it is likely that the Kaveri Mk-2 engine presently being developed by Snecma and Gas Turbine Research Establishment will be used for the AMCA.

Kaveri was first conceived as an engine for the LCA developed by ADA. The LCA is currently powered by General Electric-404 engines with technical evaluations ongoing for a bid for 99 engines. The contenders are the F-414 and EJ-200.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[KEETARP]

Quite true.

However here is what I think...

If the missle is on active radar homing mode then it can receive mid course guidance. I read that AIM 120A can receive mid courese guidance via data link.

However here comes teh little issue. Now if the missile is in active radar homing mode then..

the above theory of Taimi khan changes.
If its in Radar homing mode then its solely controlled by the fighter.
So this missile getting fresh target co-ordinates "directly from an AWACS" is out of question.

Unless the AWACS is locked on to the target and contacts the fighter to change its course.

However if the missile is locked on to the target by its own seeker. then I dont think its possible to change its course.

This is what I think, may be wrong..

and yes the link to the article where it says AIM 120 can receive mid course guidance.

AMRAAM

Actually its not like that -
Mid course guidance is only for missile to reach the the terminal homing mode, then its own Active seeker or passive receiver takes up job to actively guide the missile.

All BVR missile can receive the mid-course guidance either thru pulses/datalinks/inertial navigation system , its nothing like only AIM120 has one , even R77LR has it.

As for terminal phase , you dont require guidance otherwise FIRE and FORGET thing will be a joke . Its useless all guidance stops only missile onboard sensors work.( baring the proximity fuze situation)

See my last post - Why METEOR is so talked about , bcoz it can update information in back-channel to jet/AWACS even in terminal phase.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Here is how data linked missiles may or will work.

Lets suppose, a fighter has a 100KM range active guided missile which has data link and fighter's own radar is off and its being guided by the AWAC where ever required. All of a sudden the AWAC picks up an enemy fighter which is around 80KM away from the fighter which has the missile but as its radar is off due to any of the reason. So now the AWAC may provide the fighter the coordinates of the target and direct it to fire, as the fighters own radar is off, so it can now take over the guidance of the radar through data link and provide it updated coordinates of the target and guide the missile to reach the target close enough from where the missile's own seeker or its own radar in the nose cone takes over and goes for the target.

Other scenario can be, the fighter locks on a target with its own radar which is 90KM away, fires its missile, but to save itself from any possible launched missile from the targeted aircraft, it takes a U-turn and goes for its own safe airspace or outrun the incoming missiles, so if the aircraft takes a U-turn, the launched missile will lose its mid course guidance from the aircraft which had launched it and whose radar had locked on the target, so here the data link of the missile and AWAC can play a role. The fighter when launched the missile, can hand over the or the AWAC can take over the missile and give it mid course guidance towards the target aircraft, while the friendly aircraft would have U-turned and running away from the incoming enemy missile.

"The first option is command link guidance. In this instance the launch vehicle's or site's radar would accurately track the target and launched missile, a computer would find the required flightpath corrections for the missile, which would then be transmitted via a data link to the missile's flight control system. When in range for an effective lock on with the onboard radar, the weapon would initiate its terminal guidance phase using its own radar and computer, no longer requiring guidance commands. This type of system is often used in surface-to-air missile systems. "

A good read to understand the types of missiles and how they work.

ACTIVE AND SEMIACTIVE RADAR MISSILE GUIDANCE