India set to ink deal with Korean yard to build minesweeping ships

[dadeechi]

India set to ink deal with Korean yard to build minesweeping ships

• Rahul Singh, Hindusatan Times, New Delhi
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• Updated: Aug 07, 2016 01:15 IST

File photo of INS Kozhikode - the Pondicherry Class minesweepers of the Indian Navy. (Photo courtesy: Indiandefencenews.com)




India is on the verge of closing a deal with a South Korean shipyard to build 12 minesweeping ships locally, a project that is likely to cost more than Rs 32,000 crore.

The mine counter-measure vessels (MCMVs) will be built at Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) in collaboration with Korean yard Kangnam Corporation under the government’s Make in India programme.

Speaking exclusively to Hindustan Times, GSL chairman Rear Admiral Shekhar Mital (retd) said, “We are in the final stage of concluding the contract. It should be done in three to four weeks.”

The navy needs to fill gaps in its mine warfare capability. Its existing mine counter-measures force consists of six vessels bought from the erstwhile Soviet Union in the late 1970s. It requires 24 minesweepers. Mital said infrastructure was being scaled up swiftly at the shipyard to kick off the construction of the ships.

In December 2015, the defence ministry approved Rs 480 crore for infrastructure expansion to build MCMVs. Facilities are being created for construction of glass-reinforced plastic hulls. Such a design reduces the ship’s magnetic signature and allows for safer navigation through waters that may have been mined.

Mines are deployed to limit the enemy’s ability to use the sea. What makes these underwater weapons dangerous is that they can detonate on contact or be activated by magnetic and acoustic signatures.

The ships will use minehunting sonars to be supplied by French firm Thales, mine counter-measures combat management systems and sophisticated equipment to detonate a variety of mines.

Swedish firm Saab will be involved in the project, possibly providing remotely operated vehicle-based mine hunting solutions.

The ships are expected to have 60% indigenous content. Mital said the South Korean firm was selected for the project as it was the only yard that met the navy’s requirements. Italian shipbuilder Intermarine competed for the project, too.

The construction of the first vessel is expected to begin in April 2018, with deliveries being completed between April 2021 and April 2026.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...eping-ships/story-3hvnV31pFDJmpuyOFvR11L.html

 

[Skull and Bones]

Rather than having a separate ship for this role, couldn't we integrate the existing technology to any prevalent warship?

 

[salarsikander]

Rather than having a separate ship for this role, couldn't we integrate the existing technology to any prevalent warship?

No, Not really as you see these mines are activated by acoustic and magnetic signatures of warships. hence, that is why minesweeper hull is made glass-reinforced plastic to reduce the signature

 

[Indika]

Rather than having a separate ship for this role, couldn't we integrate the existing technology to any prevalent warship?

"Facilities are being created for construction of glass-reinforced plastic hulls"
Unless existing frigates/corvettes are made up of fibre glass hulls.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Ankit Kumar 002

Pls join here..

I deleted my thread as news for covered by @dadeechi

@Abingdonboy @anant_s in here.. deleted my thread as its same news.

As I said it's TOT fee cost plus other stuff which makes the ship cost avg 1800-2000 crs .. other than that it's about
"Minesweepers or mine countermeasure vessels are very sophisticated technology products," said Sujeet Samaddar, a retired Indian Navy commodore. "Including hull material, acoustic and magnetic reduced signatures, mine-hunting sonars and remotely piloted vehicles, and also the design methodology are not easy. That said, it is not undoable in India, but that is like reinventing the wheel."

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...lobal-tranfer-technology-build-mcmv/72730048/

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

The one who offerred us complete TOT as I described above is the winner here


The price and TOT by SKorea tilted in itsavour the deal. In fact GSL is already undergoing a modernisation of Rs1200 crores approx constructing various shades to get this agreement done.

Nexter has a 20mm gun for sure
http://www.armyrecognition.com/alme..._of_20_mm_cannon_solutions_at_almex_2011.html

30mm solution I have to check perhaps @Abingdonboy and @Water Car Engineer can point quickly.

The cost of deal has increased bcz 20℅ cost is for TOT fee and a major chunk is for upgrading the infra of GSL to build MCMVs. On top the integration cost of sonars ans RPVs have increased cost.

At the moment per ship comes out to be more like 1800-2000 crs all inclusive but will come down as subsequently more orders will be given using the same technology absorbed by GSL

Complete TOT is vague term here. Except the technique of fiber glass mouldings , every thing else will be from European companies , from its MTU, to its ROV suites from SAAB and Atlas , its Gun Mount Systems,a variable depth Sonar ( most likely from Atlas again ) , Mine Sweeping suites like deep wire sweep system ( which Kangam imports from BAE itself for South Korean Navy. ),some more equipment from Norway's Kongsberg...

The main electronics will not affect the cost , as whichever company we would have chosen , these systems would have remained a standard.

What the companies would have imparted us is the technique to build Fiber Glass vessels of over 600 tons and incorporate various sub systems .

And for that the cost is too much , had Kangam been the best I would have had no problem .

They were to build 11 modern Yang Yang class Minesweepers, for SK navy , but the program was halted over " Financial Constraints for overcoming the design deficiencies ", with only 3 vessels built , probably the last vessel built for SK Navy by Kangam.

Further if I take your assumption for out of 32000 crores for 12 vessels include ~8,000 crore for TOT and Infrastructure, rest 24,000 crore , means 2000 crore per vessel , this figure is more than the combined price of 3 better Minesweepers for Finland built last year.

I am all for a minesweeper for Navy , but our choice is very wrong here.

 

[dadeechi]

but our choice is very wrong here

Note that SK is a NSG member.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Note that SK is a NSG member.

They are to get a similar contract for Fleet Support Ship also. Minesweepers are an important asset and should be one of the best ....

Ignoring every thing else I will still be happy for this , but the super huge cost , which is more than 3xtimes a better one...

 

[RISING SUN]

@Ankit Kumar 002

Pls join here..

I deleted my thread as news for covered by @dadeechi

@Abingdonboy @anant_s in here.. deleted my thread as its same news.

As I said it's TOT fee cost plus other stuff which makes the ship cost avg 1800-2000 crs .. other than that it's about
"Minesweepers or mine countermeasure vessels are very sophisticated technology products," said Sujeet Samaddar, a retired Indian Navy commodore. "Including hull material, acoustic and magnetic reduced signatures, mine-hunting sonars and remotely piloted vehicles, and also the design methodology are not easy. That said, it is not undoable in India, but that is like reinventing the wheel."

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...lobal-tranfer-technology-build-mcmv/72730048/

What everybody missed in this deal is that this deal is not for the minesweepers as folks are discussing here. Rather it's for the boats which can not only clear mines but its unique capabilities in deploying the same in a targeted area where type of boats can't reach. Its two in one type deal with offensive as well defensive weapon suite. That's why it's cost is very high. However I would suggest to increase the number to 18 or above ships to achieve economy of scale thus decreasing overall cost. Anyways our coast is too long with many ports and defense installation around it. More numbers will allow us to increase overall on station time with proper planning.

They are to get a similar contract for Fleet Support Ship also. Minesweepers are an important asset and should be one of the best ....

Ignoring every thing else I will still be happy for this , but the super huge cost , which is more than 3xtimes a better one...

It's costly because it's not a minesweeper class boat. Please check for its details internally.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

What everybody missed in this deal is that this deal is not for the minesweepers as folks are discussing here. Rather it's for the boats which can not only clear mines but its unique capabilities in deploying the same in a targeted area where type of boats can't reach. Its two in one type deal with offensive as well defensive weapon suite. That's why it's cost is very high. However I would suggest to increase the number to 18 or above ships to achieve economy of scale thus decreasing overall cost. Anyways our coast is too long with many ports and defense installation around it. More numbers will allow us to increase overall on station time with proper planning.

That's no cost addition , the Finnish boats have capability to not only deploy mines , but also depth charges.

They are Mine Countermeasures vessels , ok ?

 

[RISING SUN]

No, Not really as you see these mines are activated by acoustic and magnetic signatures of warships. hence, that is why minesweeper hull is made glass-reinforced plastic to reduce the signature

It's not a minesweeper rather it's specialized in twin role equally.

That's no cost addition , the Finnish boats have capability to not only deploy mines , but also depth charges.

They are Mine Countermeasures vessels , ok ?

Please understand the difference in being primary role against secondary role of deploying mines kr depth charges.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

It's not a minesweeper rather it's specialized in twin role equally.

The capability to deploy mines is not a big cost addition.

@Penguin

It's not a minesweincludes r it's specialized in twin role equally.


Please understand the difference in being primary role against secondary role of deploying mines kr depth charges.

The EOI issued by GSL to which Kangam response was made didn't even included a word about capability to deploy mines.

 

[RISING SUN]

The capability to deploy mines is not a big cost addition.

@Penguin



The EOI issued by GSL to which Kangam response was made didn't even included a word about capability to deploy mines.

Buddy throwing mines or depth charges is not the specialty, even a not specialized can also deploy these offensive weapons.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

@RISING SUN
This https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hämeenmaa-class_minelayer is presently one of the few modern dedicated platforms for deploying mines.

All it needs to make any vessel like a Mine countermeasures vessel to be able to deploy mines is a dedicated rail. Nothing else.

And this won't cost 180million USD.

 

[Penguin]

The MCM vessels of the South Korean navy are (unlicensed) derivative of the ITALIAN Lerici design, with the Yangyang-class apparently an enlarged version of the Ganggyeong-class. These are minehunters, which means they use remote-operated submersibles for mine investigation and clearance. Sweeping gear, if any, is secondary ate best.

While the Lerici/Gaeta class based Finnish Katanpää-classis said to be armed with depth charges, I srtongly suspect these to be the Saab Elma ASW-600 9-tube ASW mortars, since these are also used on Rauma and Hamina class FACs. These are especially usefull in shallow waters as found in the Baltic. 'Dumb' depth charges probably less so. The latter FACs can also be used to lay mines, if at the cost of dismounting some SSMs in Rauma, and the RIB in Hamina. Their high speed and relatively comprehensive armamant makes them suitable for offensive mine laying. However, the Finnish navy operates several larger ships specifically for minelaying, so it is a secondary role for the FACs.

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_old_pdf.cfm?ARC_ID=1713
Typically mounts forward of the main gun.

Rauma and Hamina stern, with rail (which can be used to deploy depth charges)

Hamina FAC and Katanpää MCMV sterns: in the middle of the stern of the MCMV there appears to be a rail.

Such a rail could be used both for mine laying and/or depth charges. Though I suspect that is not the primary use in either class.