India says Pakistan trial of Mumbai suspects a 'facade'

[Bang Galore]

NEW DELHI — India's home secretary says Pakistan's efforts to prosecute those behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks are a "facade" with Islamabad concerned that senior government officials might be implicated.

In an interview published in the Wall Street Journal on Monday, G.K. Pillai said India had provided Pakistan with extensive information on the identities of key conspirators behind the attacks that killed 166 people.

Some of the most compelling evidence was garnered from interrogating David Headley, a Pakistani-American who pleaded guilty to surveying the hotels and other targets ahead of the assault blamed on Pakistan-based militants.

Pillai said Headley had identified the voice of key conspirators from Indian intelligence intercepts and the information had been passed on to the Pakistani authorities.

"I don't think they're going to do anything about it," Pillai told the Journal, adding that Pakistan's moves to advance the case are a "facade" and ignored the people in the "control room" who orchestrated the attacks.

Pillai argued that Pakistan was wary of cracking down on top militants, for fear they will "sing" and implicate Pakistani government officials in the attacks.

"They just can't do it," he said.

The Mumbai attacks, which began on November 26, 2008, caused carnage as 10 heavily-armed Islamist gunmen stormed India's financial capital, sparking a bloody, 60-hour siege shown live on television around the world.

Nine of the gunmen were killed and the sole survivor, Mohammed Ajmal Kasab, was condemned to death by a Mumbai court in May. He is challenging the sentence.

Seven suspects in Pakistan, including alleged mastermind Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, have been put on trial in the country, but none has been convicted.

The trial process has stalled, with Pakistani officials demanding Kasab be allowed to testify, which New Delhi has refused. Pakistan also wants to send a fact-finding commission to India to gather more evidence.

India sees these moves as stalling tactics and says it has handed over enough evidence to convict the accused men. Pakistan says the evidence is inadmissible in court.

The Mumbai attacks continue to dog relations between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan, whose slow-moving peace process broke down after the assault.

AFP: India says Pakistan trial of Mumbai suspects a 'facade'

 

[Spring Onion]

extensive information? or Indian allegations sans any proof.

Give us the proof. there is none.

we say Indian trial is facade since bharatiyas failed to find out who killed Karkare.

why Karkare was provided fake bullet-proof jacket? and why Indian Hindu militants wanted to Kill Karkare ?

 

[storm seeker]

India is acting like an old women nagging on a stupid thing that nobody admits . why should we ahve to punish our own ppl for wat they havent done .... thats foolish if india has ever thought of it .

 

[Yeti]

extensive information? or Indian allegations sans any proof.

Give us the proof. there is none.

we say Indian trial is facade since bharatiyas failed to find out who killed Karkare.

why Karkare was provided fake bullet-proof jacket? and why Indian Hindu militants wanted to Kill Karkare ?

fake bullet jacket? the jacket could not stop ak47 bullets

Karkare's jacket not bullet-proof for AK-47s: Govt

He was killed by a brainwashed madrassa Pakistani jihadi not a hindu whole world knows it.

 

[Paan Singh]

India is acting like an old women nagging on a stupid thing that nobody admits . why should we ahve to punish our own ppl for wat they havent done .... thats foolish if india has ever thought of it .

ur own FIA admitted that all were pakistanis and went through pakistan

 

[IceCold]

ur own FIA admitted that all were pakistanis and went through pakistan

yeah and at the same time they stayed In Indian waters for GOD knows how many days and yet your coast guards did nothing. So instead of blaming Pakistan for your misery, why dont you guys put your house in order. Calling Pakistani trail a facade aint gonna help the Indian case, infact its going to worsen it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Typical Indian balderdash - promoting hearsay and speculation as 'evidence'.

How on earth is a court in Pakistan supposed the determine the veracity of Indian claims allegedly made by a suspect (Headley) that isn't even in Indian custody, and whose plea agreement with the US authorities has limited access to him.

In any case, US authorities have already directly briefed Pakistani officials on the information provided by Headley when he was arrested in the US, and it doesn' appear to (based on wikileaks) match up with anything the Indians are claiming.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Mumbai Case

-----------

10. (C) Pakistan's prosecution of the seven suspects it arrested in the Mumbai case -- i.e., XXXXXXXXXXXX and terrorism financiers XXXXXXXXXXXX-- is proceeding, though at a slow pace. The defense lawyers have aggressively filed motions challenging varying aspects of the case. On November 25, an Anti-Terrorism Court finally framed the charges against the seven defendants, allowing the court proceedings, which are being held in camera, to move to the trial phase. Four FBI expert witnesses are expected to be called to testify for the prosecution. The government has continually reassured us that the prosecutors will win convictions against all the defendants after a trial lasting several months, though it has a stronger case against the five LeT operatives than against the two terrorism financers. There are concerns that some of the convictions could be overturned at the appellate level, where the courts set an extremely high evidentiary bar. On October 12, a Pakistani court quashed all remaining cases against Hafiz Saeed, the head of LeT alias Jama'at-ud-Dawa (JuD). Those cases were not related to the Mumbai attack. The government has repeatedly told us that it would need much more evidence of Saeed's direct involvement in the Mumbai attacks to move forward with Mumbai-related charges against him.

David Coleman Headley

---------------------

11. (S) In December, an FBI-DOJ team briefed Pakistani officials from the ISI, Ministry of Interior, FIA, IB, and MFA on the David Coleman Headley investigation, providing them with tear-line information on Headley's statements to U.S. authorities. ISI officials said they had very little information to identify the Pakistanis mentioned in the statements. They discussed their investigation into First World Immigration Service, a business front used by Headley and his co-conspirators. The ISI said while they would not grant direct FBI access to co-conspirator Major (retd.) Abdurrehman Syed, who was in ISI custody, the FBI could submit questions for Syed through the ISI. The FIA and Ministry of Interior informed the FBI that it would be difficult to introduce Headley-related evidence in the government's prosecution of the Mumbai defendants, including because Headley's statements to U.S. authorities would be treated as hearsay with little evidentiary value in court.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...kileaks-diplomatic-cables-20.html#post1306503

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Typical Indian balderdash - promoting hearsay and speculation as 'evidence'.

How on earth is a court in Pakistan supposed the determine the veracity of Indian claims allegedly made by a suspect (Headley) that isn't even in Indian custody, and whose plea agreement with the US authorities has limited access to him.

In any case, US authorities have already directly briefed Pakistani officials on the information provided by Headley when he was arrested in the US, and it doesn' appear to (based on wikileaks) match up with anything the Indians are claiming.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

The point is, had your people really wanted to act, they would have acted.

Pakistan's approach has been one seeking to obfuscate right from the very start.

First you did not accept that the terrorists were Pakistanis.

Then you did not accept role of Hafiz Sayeed and gang.

Then you were reluctant about acting over JuD. In fact, even now there have been reports of JuD functioning freely under the garb of charity for flood victims.

It's not that you cannot act. It's just that you don't want to act. Hence the 'Indian balderdash'.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Where there is a wil, there is a way.

The point is, had your people really wanted to act, they would have acted.

That's absurd - the court has to follow proper process and weigh the evidence against the accused. You are basically arguing for a sham trial where the outcome is predetermined.

Pakistan's approach has been one seeking to obfuscate right from the very start.

First you did not accept that the terrorists were Pakistanis.

That has already been discussed in its own thread and there were valid reasons for the position Pakistan took, given Indian refusal to cooperate and share evidence and the war mongering hysteria promoted by some in its government and media.

Then you did not accept role of Hafiz Sayeed and gang.

There is still no evidence to implicate Hafiz Saeed in the Mumbai attacks, so what is there to accept?

Then you were reluctant about acting over JuD. In fact, even now there have been reports of JuD functioning freely.

Actually the wikileaks suggest that LeT is possibly raising most of its funds in Saudi Arabia.

Pakistan has largely complied with the limited measures mandated by the UNSC sanctions, and if India disagrees, take it up at the UN.

It's not that you cannot act. It's just that you don't want to act. Hence the 'Indian balderdash'.

One cannot prosecute a case without evidence, hence, 'Indian balderdash'.

 

[ajtr]

trivia....choose the people responsible for 26/11..

1.Indians and Govt of india
2. pakistanis and Govt of pakistan
3.usa and its agencies
4. all of the above.

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

That's absurd - the court has to follow proper process and weigh the evidence against the accused. You are basically arguing for a sham trial where the outcome is predetermined.

As a matter of fact, I'm arguing against.

There is still no evidence to implicate Hafiz Saeed in the Mumbai attacks, so what is there to accept?

All the evidence we had, has been given to your govt. now it was the job of your govt. to investigate properly since the plot was actully hatched in your country.

We are yet to see a positive response from your govt on that.

GoI has repeatedly requested the voice samples of the accused but still your govt. is reluctant to provide them.

Pakistan has largely complied with the limited measures mandated by the UNSC sanctions, and if India disagrees, take it up at the UN.

See! That's the attitude I'm talking about. Fine, but you know what will be and has been our response to this attitude?

1. We won't talk.

2. We won't normalise relations.

3. We won't try to resolve any issues.

Go, take up your grudges with the UN!

Mind you, we are not the ones losing out from this impasse.

The UN will not come to your rescue on kashmir, we will.

The UN will not come to your rescue on Siachen, we will.

The UN will not come to your rescue on Sir Creek, we will.

The UN will not come to your rescue on bilateral trade, we will.

Now go and talk to the UN!

 

[Awesome]

The thing these people should answer is that the Supreme Court is in on it? The courts that can't go a day without duking it out with the government suddenly came together to launch this big conspiracy against India?

How can Pakistani courts be manipulated by the government?

 

[meleszenawi1111]

really good conversation

 

[jayron]

The thing these people should answer is that the Supreme Court is in on it? The courts that can't go a day without duking it out with the government suddenly came together to launch this big conspiracy against India?

How can Pakistani courts be manipulated by the government?

I agree with you that the courts cannot be manipulated. But just check the speed in which your blasphemy trial proceeded and the speed in which the Mumbai case is proceeding. Don't you think they work faster when there is a necessity?