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India’s sea-based nuclear deterrent soon, says Shyam Saran

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India’s sea-based nuclear deterrent soon, says Shyam Saran

India’s nuclear deterrent is based on a credible nuclear doctrine and is sustained by a “systematic drive to operationalize” its various delivery components, including a sea-based one by 2015-16, Shyam Saran, chairman of the National Security Advisory Board, said in Delhi on Wednesday.

Countering critics of India’s nuclear weapons programme that it was driven by notions of prestige rather than considerations of national security, Saran, also a former foreign secetary who was closely connected with the negotiation of the Indo-US civil nuclear deal, said India’s nuclear doctrine is based on the current geopolitical environment, especially with Pakistan actively building up its nuclear arsenal and keeping its aggressive actions and strategies against India in mind.

Giving a talk on “Is India’s nuclear deterrent credible?”, at the India Habitat Centre, Saran said: “India does have a credible theory of how its nuclear weapons may be used and that is spelt out in its nuclear doctrine.”

He said India’s nuclear doctrine, which was formally adopted at a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) in Jan 4, 2003, and the regular checks that are held have strengthened the level of confidence in India’s nuclear deterrent.

While further reforms would be required “to make our deterrent more robust, it is unhelpful to peddle the impression that it is dysfunctional or worse that it is non-existent”, he said at the lecture, held in collaboration with the Subbu Forum and the Society for Policy Studies (SPS).

He said since the May 1998 nuclear tests, India has demonstrated “quite clearly a sustained and systematic drive to operationalize the various components of the nuclear deterrent in a manner best suited to India’s security environment. This is not the record of a state which considers nuclear weapons an instrument of national pride and propaganda”.

“It is expected that a modest sea-based deterrence will be in place by 2015 or 2016,” Saran said and termed the development of the “third leg of the triad (of nuclear delivery systems) which is submarine based” as “work in progress”.

He said Pakistan has given the excuse of the Indo-US civil nuclear deal as the reason for the “relentless build up of its nuclear arsenal”, its refusal to allow the Conference on Disarmament in Geneva to undertake multilateral negotiations on a Fissile Material Cut-Off Treaty (FMCT) as well as its threat to deploy theatre nuclear weapons to meet a so-called conventional Indian armed thrust across the border.

“The votaries of non-proliferation in the West have criticised the Indo-US civil nucear agreement as having allowed exceptionalism in favour of India, which has encouraged a nuclear arms race between India and Pakistan,” Saran said.

The exception provided to India in clinching the deal “rests on India’s universally acknowledged and exceptional record as a responsible nuclear state as contrasted with Pakistan’s equally exceptional record as a source of serial proliferation and in possession of a nuclear programme born in deceit and deception”, he said.

“There is no moral equivalence in this respect between the two countries and this point must be driven home every time Pakistan claims parity. We should not allow such an insiduous campaign to affect our proposed membership of the NSG (Nuclear Suppliers Group) and the MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime)”.

Saran said Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are focused in large part on the threat from India, real or imagined.

In the buildup of its nuclear arsenal, “what Pakistan is signalling to India and to the world is that India should not contemplate retaliation even if there is another Mumbai because Pakistan has lowered the threshold of nuclear use to the theatre level”.

This he said, is “nothing short of nuclear blackmail, no different from the irresponsible behaviour one witnesses in North Korea” and deserves condemnation by the international community as it is a threat not just to India but to international peace and security”.

Saran said Pakistan’s nuclear build-up is “driven by a mind-set which seeks parity with and even overtaking India, irrespective of the cost this entails”.

Islamabad is also driven by the fear that the US may carry out an operation, like the top secret one to kill Osama bin Laden in Abbotabad, “to disable, destroy or confiscate, its nuclear weapons”.

Saran added that “in the current world scenario of multiple nuclear actors, there is pervasive uncertainty about how the nuclear dynamics will play itself out even if a nuclear exchange commenced with only two actors”.

Saran said the “mostly self-serving and misconceived notions” about India’s nuclear deterrent “have much to do with the failure on the part of both the state as well as India’s strategic community to confront and to refute them”.

He termed the “motivated assessments” and “speculative judments” as “deeply troubling”.

He blamed it on an “information vaccum” and hoped the government makes public its nuclear doctrine and releases data regularly on what steps have been taken and are being taken to put the requirements of the doctrine in place.

“It is not necessary to share operational details but an overall survey, such as an annual Strategic Posture Review, should be shared with the citizens of the country who, after all, pay for the security which the deterrent is supposed to provide to them.

Another welcome step would be to hold an “informed and vigorous debate based on accurate and factual information”. The people of the country also need to be taken into confidence about the risks and benefits of maintaining a nuclear deterrent.
India’s sea-based nuclear deterrent soon, says Shyam Saran | idrw.org
 
Good news.

However, I think should should focus on developing a robust missile defense system. We should shoot down missiles even before entering Indian air space.
 
Submarines: China Once Again Tries To Get Its Boomer On

This is a article that I found that I think really says something about the Chinese Nuclear Sub program. While I am not sure how accurate it is, it seems to be a pretty good guess for the information available.

Surface Forces: China Forms Its First Carrier Escort Group

This describes the non-existent nuclear sub of the battle group which gives me reason to suspect that the first article is at least somewhat true.

Chinese nuclear submarines found snooping in India : News Night: Headlines Today

At about the 4, 5 minute mark begins our story I think

22 detections by Indian navy may mean that the Chinese Submarines are not ready to enter full service and provide a Chinese ability to strike Washington.

India is on its first generation nuclear subs I believe, does India solve some of the problems faced by the Chinese type 94s? I think I read a Indian story that Indian subs went undetected in China seas.

IF this is true does this mean Indian subs are on par or better at this moment?

What is the current balance?
 
Submarines: China Once Again Tries To Get Its Boomer On

This is a article that I found that I think really says something about the Chinese Nuclear Sub program. While I am not sure how accurate it is, it seems to be a pretty good guess for the information available.

Surface Forces: China Forms Its First Carrier Escort Group

This describes the non-existent nuclear sub of the battle group which gives me reason to suspect that the first article is at least somewhat true.

Chinese nuclear submarines found snooping in India : News Night: Headlines Today

At about the 4, 5 minute mark begins our story I think

22 detections by Indian navy may mean that the Chinese Submarines are not ready to enter full service and provide a Chinese ability to strike Washington.

India is on its first generation nuclear subs I believe, does India solve some of the problems faced by the Chinese type 94s? I think I read a Indian story that Indian subs went undetected in China seas.

IF this is true does this mean Indian subs are on par or better at this moment?

What is the current balance?

bravado and patriotism apart..i dont think indian SSBNs which are about to enter operations soon are a match for china's SSBNs. FACT. China's SSBNs can be totally crap infront of US navy's SSBNs, but that only means indian ones are furthur down..

This is due to two simple public facts.
1. India's SLBMs are wayyyy incapable as of now.
2. India didnt even operationalize it's first SSBN.

THey have a long way to go before they catch up china's SSBNs.
 
Submarines: China Once Again Tries To Get Its Boomer On

This is a article that I found that I think really says something about the Chinese Nuclear Sub program. While I am not sure how accurate it is, it seems to be a pretty good guess for the information available.

Surface Forces: China Forms Its First Carrier Escort Group

This describes the non-existent nuclear sub of the battle group which gives me reason to suspect that the first article is at least somewhat true.

Chinese nuclear submarines found snooping in India : News Night: Headlines Today

At about the 4, 5 minute mark begins our story I think

22 detections by Indian navy may mean that the Chinese Submarines are not ready to enter full service and provide a Chinese ability to strike Washington.

India is on its first generation nuclear subs I believe, does India solve some of the problems faced by the Chinese type 94s? I think I read a Indian story that Indian subs went undetected in China seas.

IF this is true does this mean Indian subs are on par or better at this moment?

What is the current balance?

INS Chakra came undetected from Russia. However, it is a Russian Akula sub, operated by India. Not an Indian made sub. It is probably the second quietest nuclear sub, after the USN's Virginia class subs. And it is an attack sub, not a boomer.

Chinese subs are easily detectable, that is true. That is to be expected, since they are relatively new to the scene of building nuclear subs. About India's Arihant, we don't have any details yet. It is too early to speculate about it, once it enters operational service, we will know if it will have teething issues like China did. Although it is India's first attempt at making a nuke sub, we are getting some help from the Russians, so hopefully the experience will not be too bad.
 
Nice and good news

“It is expected that a modest sea-based deterrence will be in place by 2015 or 2016,”

?????????????????????????

is he hinting that second Arihant will join IN too till 2016
 
Submarines: China Once Again Tries To Get Its Boomer On

This is a article that I found that I think really says something about the Chinese Nuclear Sub program. While I am not sure how accurate it is, it seems to be a pretty good guess for the information available.

Surface Forces: China Forms Its First Carrier Escort Group

This describes the non-existent nuclear sub of the battle group which gives me reason to suspect that the first article is at least somewhat true.

Chinese nuclear submarines found snooping in India : News Night: Headlines Today

At about the 4, 5 minute mark begins our story I think

22 detections by Indian navy may mean that the Chinese Submarines are not ready to enter full service and provide a Chinese ability to strike Washington.

India is on its first generation nuclear subs I believe, does India solve some of the problems faced by the Chinese type 94s? I think I read a Indian story that Indian subs went undetected in China seas.

IF this is true does this mean Indian subs are on par or better at this moment?

What is the current balance?

Sir we had some help from the Russians on on-board safety features and sea-worthy construction practices..also we had help in the designing phase..we also dry ran an exact copy of the nuclear reactor we built and put on our sub on land for a few years to validate, check instrumentation and firm up repair and maintainability requirement. That might be the reason that the Arihant is going without any hitches so far..also because a lot of the manufacturing and construction on it was carried out by the Indian private sector..specially with hull grade steel and anechoic tiles.

"The reactor consists of 13 fuel assemblies each having 348 fuel pins. Several companies supplied components of the reactor. High grade steel supplied by Heavy Engineering Corporation, Ranchi was used to build the reactor vessel. The steam generator was provided by BHEL; and Audco India, Chennai built the pressure valves.


Hindustan Shipyard at Visakhapatnam
Separately, infrastructure for testing the reactor subsystems was set up at the Machinery Test Centre in Visakhapatnam. Facilities for loading and replacing the fuel cores of the naval reactors in berthed submarines were also established at the Ship Building Centre.
Once the design was finalized, detailed engineering was implemented at Larsen and Toubro's submarine design centre at their Hazira shipbuilding facility using 3D modelling and product data management software. Tata Power SED built the control systems for the submarine. The steam turbines and associated systems integrated with the PWR were supplied by Walchandnagar Industries."
 
Submarines: China Once Again Tries To Get Its Boomer On

This is a article that I found that I think really says something about the Chinese Nuclear Sub program. While I am not sure how accurate it is, it seems to be a pretty good guess for the information available.

Surface Forces: China Forms Its First Carrier Escort Group

This describes the non-existent nuclear sub of the battle group which gives me reason to suspect that the first article is at least somewhat true.

Chinese nuclear submarines found snooping in India : News Night: Headlines Today

At about the 4, 5 minute mark begins our story I think

22 detections by Indian navy may mean that the Chinese Submarines are not ready to enter full service and provide a Chinese ability to strike Washington.

India is on its first generation nuclear subs I believe, does India solve some of the problems faced by the Chinese type 94s? I think I read a Indian story that Indian subs went undetected in China seas.

IF this is true does this mean Indian subs are on par or better at this moment?

What is the current balance?

Being realist,I don't think our first boomer will be neither world beater in stealth,nor in weapons.but thats a good step forward.I think our subs will have that kind of stealth whats Russian subs from 80s and 90s would have(still inferior,but good nonetheless).our subs are somewhat comparable with Akula-I( SSBN Arihant Class Submarine - Naval Technology ) and Charlie class (Charlie-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) with modified features.while Arihant was merely tech demonstrator that is inducted into survice,next subs of this series will have more serious punch and better stealth(I hope)..

as for Chinese subs,no doubt they are far ahead in this field.but their subs are claimed to be noisy and no doubt easier to detect by Indians and Americans with better submarine detection techs and all..
 
So what holding what ???
Arihant holding K-15 or K-15 holding Arihant back ???
 
Nice and good news



?????????????????????????

is he hinting that second Arihant will join IN too till 2016

yes its already going through quality testing phase platform trials might start by the end of this year

Being realist,I don't think our first boomer will be neither world beater in stealth,nor in weapons.but thats a good step forward.I think our subs will have that kind of stealth whats Russian subs from 80s and 90s would have(still inferior,but good nonetheless).our subs are somewhat comparable with Akula-I( SSBN Arihant Class Submarine - Naval Technology ) and Charlie class (Charlie-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) with modified features.while Arihant was merely tech demonstrator that is inducted into survice,next subs of this series will have more serious punch and better stealth(I hope)..

as for Chinese subs,no doubt they are far ahead in this field.but their subs are claimed to be noisy and no doubt easier to detect by Indians and Americans with better submarine detection techs and all..

i dont think thats correct.even though we're new to the construction of subs.russians experts are directly involved in it..and l&T to which contract is awarded i think is no less compared to anyother proffessional org in the world and tries to get the best tech.IN wouldnt comporomise in its requirements especially when the contract is given to a private org
 
i dont think thats correct.even though we're new to the construction of subs.russians experts are directly involved in it..and l&T to which contract is awarded i think is no less compared to anyother proffessional org in the world and tries to get the best tech.IN wouldnt comporomise in its requirements especially when the contract is given to a private org

I'm not saying its inferior..but its inferior that what world is currently operating.and there is no shame in it.Akula is a quite sub when comparable.of course you don't think that in the first attempt,we'll reduce the noise at the level of Los angeles class or seawolf class,Virginia or Astute class,would you??even Russia is using Akulas and Yasen class is only in sea trial.so,its not bad either..
 
I'm not saying its inferior..but its inferior that what world is currently operating.and there is no shame in it.Akula is a quite sub when comparable.of course you don't think that in the first attempt,we'll reduce the noise at the level of Los angeles class or seawolf class,Virginia or Astute class,would you??even Russia is using Akulas and Yasen class is only in sea trial.so,its not bad either..

a friend of mine is associated with it and according to him arihant 2 its a fine sub.not the one of the best in the world but good enough to support our needs.or let me put it this way the tolerances used for chinese subs are pretty higher 4-5 times of what we use in our navy..cant say about stealth but our quality is on par with any of the best in the world.so i dont think we need to worry
 
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