India keen to induct 5th-Gen stealth fighter by 2017

[gogbot]

Despite this, I do not expect to see a Chinese FGFA prototype before a Russian one. However, I expect China won't be too far behind, they've already started making their way into the 4.5th Generation market. The thing about both the Russian and the Chinese industries is that they are both highly secretive, and are both highly goal-oriented. Unlike the Western defence industry, all the resources are employed to meet specific targets, since financial profit is secondary to defence capability. This makes for an interesting contest for sure, as similar markets go after a similar prize.

I say it again, I find it highly unlikely that India will be inducting any FGFA in 2017.

Even with Sukhoi stating a test flight for the prototype in the next 3 months. You expect China to have the test flight before that.

and why cant India make the 2017 date for Induction of first aircraft?

 

[xukxuk]

Even with Sukhoi stating a test flight for the prototype in the next 3 months. You expect China to have the test flight before that.

and why cant India make the 2017 date for Induction of first aircraft?

you see my friend
i don't trust russia 100%
you should already learn some experince from the aircraft carrier project

 

[raveolution]

you see my friend
i don't trust russia 100%
you should already learn some experince from the aircraft carrier project

Agreed that there have been glitches as of late, but it does not undermine traditional defence ties of both countries which have stood strong for decades.

China, of all should be thankful to the Russians, as the entire Western world has imposed military sanctions on China post 1989, and Russia was the only country which stood by your side.

 

[aimarraul]

Agreed that there have been glitches as of late, but it does not undermine traditional defence ties of both countries which have stood strong for decades.

China, of all should be thankful to the Russians, as the entire Western world has imposed military sanctions on China post 1989, and Russia was the only country which stood by your side.

so wrong ,it's Pakistan and Cuba with us at that time,china and russia official resumed diplomatic relations after the disintegration of the soviet union ,without china's money during that time ,lots of their military enterprises couldn't have even survived,china and lots of chinese are still very thankfull to soviet union because of their help between 1949-1959,even though they almost N china in 1969

 

[gogbot]

you see my friend
i don't trust russia 100%
you should already learn some experince from the aircraft carrier project

So when times are rosy we are friends, but as soon as something unpleasant happens we have to turn on each other.

Why you only mention AC deal, it is the low point of the relationship.
But why dont you mention the same of Su-30 aircraft. which turned out to be a blazing success

Or Brahmos missile
or the assistance provided in helping India miniaturize Nuclear reactors
or Mig-29
or frigates Russia makes for India
or T-90 battle tanks

The list goes on, Russian priorities may be different than that of India's but they see value in good relations with India and to that end they have not let us down overall.

Russia will loose more than it gains by alienating India and thus pushing it into the US corner.

In fact what incentive is there for the Russians to betray India ?

 

[gogbot]

even though they almost N china in 1969

Didn't china also have Nukes in 1969
Wiki says your test was in 1965

Or was China crippled by cultural revolution at the time?

 

[aimarraul]

Despite this, I do not expect to see a Chinese FGFA prototype before a Russian one. However, I expect China won't be too far behind, they've already started making their way into the 4.5th Generation market. The thing about both the Russian and the Chinese industries is that they are both highly secretive, and are both highly goal-oriented. Unlike the Western defence industry, all the resources are employed to meet specific targets, since financial profit is secondary to defence capability. This makes for an interesting contest for sure, as similar markets go after a similar prize.

I say it again, I find it highly unlikely that India will be inducting any FGFA in 2017.

most chinese don't expect that either,but building our own strong defence industry is much more important ,even if it means we have to service our J-XX couple years later , it's always dangerouse doing business with russia,india wasn't the first country they blackmailed

 

[aimarraul]

Didn't china also have Nukes in 1969
Wiki says your test was in 1965

Or was China crippled by cultural revolution at the time?

having nukes doesn't mean "having actual combat capability"
N.K have nukes too，without mobile missile at that time,USSR could easily destroy china's arsenal before we had a chance to use it

 

[sudhir007]

 

[gogbot]

Who made that speculation

they seem fake,

 

[PAFAce]

Even with Sukhoi stating a test flight for the prototype in the next 3 months. You expect China to have the test flight before that.

You misunderstood my post. Read the first sentence of my post again, carefully this time.
"I do not expect to see a Chinese FGFA prototype before a Russian one"

Also, first prototype in 3 months? Even if we do see something of this sort (I doubt it very much), it won't be far off from a Su-35 with maybe a few modifications to the structure and/or avionics. That's it.

why cant India make the 2017 date for Induction of first aircraft?

Read my first post again. I deduced from the words of your very own Chief of Air Staff. AK Antony has recently made some very stupid statements regarding Pakistan and Pakistani affairs, I simply can't trust that guy's intelligence anymore. But hey, you elected him, you are welcome to trust him all you want.

Next time, read carefully and think before you post, or I might have to report you to the Mods. If you think that, just because I am a Pakistani, I can't be objective about Indian affairs, then you think wrong. I do not criticize for the sake of it, I know a little bit about this stuff.

Lastly, like I've said, with the Russians and the Chinese, the programs are so secretive, our analyses and predictions could be very off. Let's wait and see.

 

[oct605032048]

russia got more experiences but china are better equipped with funds, electronic devices, facilities such as over 50000 ton hydraulic press as well as human resources.

 

[oct605032048]

So when times are rosy we are friends,
Or Brahmos missile
or the assistance provided in helping India miniaturize Nuclear reactors
or Mig-29
or frigates Russia makes for India
or T-90 battle tanks
...
In fact what incentive is there for the Russians to betray India ?

those items do not measure up to china's standards.

the range of bramos is too short to be a threat.
mig-29 is not comparable to su-27,
and russian frigates? well there are already 8 or 9 054A waiting to join the navy join the navy.
when it comes to tanks, i have to admit that T90 is a far more better choice over arjun for india.

 

[sancho]

I say it again, I find it highly unlikely that India will be inducting any FGFA in 2017.

I am also a bit doubtful with 2017, but not because it is not possible, more because delays are normal in Indian and Russian developments. Anyway the main point that you have to keep in mind is, that this is not a 5. gen MCA fighter development, where India develop everything from the scratch. Pak Fa development had started years before (before India gets involved) and like Storm Force said, many of the Russian techs are ready in the early versions (S117 engine, Irbis/Bars radars) and now gets tested in the Su35. Not to forget that 3 prototypes of Pak Fa are ready now to make the first flight at the end of this year.
So if the design with the stealth features is ready, as well as the major techs like radar, or engines and the firstflight will be really this year, there is not much more time needed for further developments right? Even the next gen weapons, that are designed to fit in the internal weapon bays are shown now and can be ready till 2016 (Pak Fa induction date).
FGFA will have the same stealth features, the same radar, engine and weapon techs. I don't expect that Russia will need so much time to redesign the airframe to be a two seater and maybe a bit smaller in size, because they did that so often with their UB varients.
Russia and it's experience is the main advantage in this development, China in ccomparison might started a 5.gen dev (just like India with MCA), but both countries are still trying to catch up with Russia in terms of engine and radar developments. China is maybe on par with the AL 31 engine and the Su 30 MKK radar and techs, but still behind Russia and India alone is even more behind.
However, the firstflight and possibly the new capabilities of upg MKIs will give the best hints if 2016/17 can be realistic.

 

[PAFAce]

So if the design with the stealth features is ready, as well as the major techs like radar, or engines and the firstflight will be really this year, there is not much more time needed for further developments right? Even the next gen weapons, that are designed to fit in the internal weapon bays are shown now and can be ready till 2016 (Pak Fa induction date).

First flight of the YF-22 was in September 1990, the first flight of the F-22 was in September 1997, IOC began in 2003 and FOC was achieved in 2007. Now, remember that the first YF-22 that flew in 1990 was actually the completed initial design put forward by LM in the ATF contest, which had been in development since 1986. Initial flight testing of technologies had been done before that for risk reduction purposes. Before even that, they had F-117 and SR-71 experience. On the other hand, the Russians claim first flight of the first prototype by the end of this year, which could really mean anything, not necessarily the completed initial design.

So, with all their experience, technical-know how and technology base, it took LM 17 years from YF-22 initial flight to FOC and induction. And some guys here think that Sukhoi can match all that in 7.

I won't comment on the MCA as I know very little about it. The LCA should be priority 1 for now, and for your sake, I hope it really is "designed from scratch in India".