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India is no ally of the US

India is currently unlikely to challenge the existing order. It will prefer the certainty of the unipolar world, over the unpredictability of the multi-polar world. Freedom of seas, freedom of trade become more complicated in a multi-polar world. India wants to ensure its development now at all costs- and international stability is important. India wants US as neither an ally or enemy. Both are equally hazardous.

Whether India should undermine the existing order, or just play along is a question to be asked decades later, when India is one of the top 3-4 economies in the world. It depends on the existing great power relations at the time, what is on offer to play along, and what are the benefits by undermining.
 
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India is currently unlikely to challenge the existing order. It will prefer the certainty of the unipolar world, over the unpredictability of the multi-polar world. Freedom of seas, freedom of trade become more complicated in a multi-polar world. India wants to ensure its development now at all costs- and international stability is important. India wants US as neither an ally or enemy. Both are equally hazardous.

Whether India should undermine the existing order, or just play along is a question to be asked decades later, when India is one of the top 3-4 economies in the world. It depends on the existing great power relations at the time, what is on offer to play along, and what are the benefits by undermining.
It is important to be honest with yourself. If you don't want to challenge the existing order, why do you want to be a permanent UN Security Council member? Why do you participate to create BRICS Bank, AIID, and wanting to join SCO? It is obviously you want power but the existing powers are denying your attempt for to more influence. In the long term, I believe India will want to change the status quo as their power grow. US will never allow you to grab more influence if you haven't earn it.
 
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hmmm, no one ever said US-India is became an allies. It just they have same interest at the moment and cooperate together to pursue that
 
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It is important to be honest with yourself. If you don't want to challenge the existing order, why do you want to be a permanent UN Security Council member? Why do you participate to create BRICS Bank, AIID, and wanting to join SCO? It is obviously you want power but the existing powers are denying your attempt for to more influence. In the long term, I believe India will want to change the status quo as their power grow. US will never allow you to grab more influence if you haven't earn it.

I think UNSC is already over complicated and introducing India/Brazil/Germany/Japan in the mix introduces more uncertainty that other member won't allow. India is not ready for a big international role. It seeks this purely for prestige. It is all a bit of joke and impractical in the short-term. As for the others, they are just start-ups, investments for an uncertain future. Nothing is certain or definite, and India has to be prepared for a future in which US is the dominant power, as also one in which China is. We will of coarse attempt to change the status quo as our relative power increases vis-a-vis other established great powers.
 
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Some people in India think India is a socialist country, is that true?
 
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The question should be, Did US want anymore allies in Asia? The answer is a giant big NO!

As I said on the other thread, which is deleted by Chinese Mod anyway, if what we are talking about is US pivot to Asia and the US policy to contain China, then the current US allies together with US have and can be done more than that already.

Combine US current Allies, allies defined as country in Asia have defence pact AND have US force present in their country (Beside Taiwan). Australia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and US Pacific Fleet. The number of warship has already outnumber PLAN about 1:1.4 (About 30 % more) Together the US current allies and US pacific Fleet have

4 Fleet Carrier - `285 Fighters
8 LHD, LHA/Light Carrier (4 US LHD, LHA, 2 JMSDF LHD,1 ROK LHD, 1 RAN)
12 Cruiser
74 Destroyer (35-40 US, 28 JMSDF, 12 ROKN, 4 ROCN)
74 Frigate (19 JMSDF, 11 ROKN, 12 RAN, 6 RSN, 26 ROCN)
70 + Submarine ( 35-40 US, 12 JMSDF, 13 ROKN, 6 RAN, 7 RSN, 2 ROCN, not counting SSBN)

Compare to the current PLAN strength.

1 Light Carrier
26 Destroyer
47 Frigate
59 Submarine (Not Including SSBN)

On Average, the Current Allies strength is at 150% of PLAN on ship to ship comparison. That's before the Allies outside Asia/Pacific (UK, German etc.) and discounting New Zealand's, and does not count US Atlantic Commands and US Coast Guard.

The question is, if US can effectively contain China with its allies at the moment? Why want more? The answer is, they don't, as i said on the other thread, US does not need both India and Vietnam into US camp, but as long as they stay neutral in the SCS issue, and then the US can effectively trap PLAN within SCS by current Allies asset only.
Another problem why US wanted India and Vietnam to be neutral is very simple, Russia. At present, Russia is a non-party toward South/South East Asia, Russia strength are deployed in North Sea and Black Sea at the moment, the Russian Pacific Fleet is 6 surface ship and some 20 sub-surface ship. If US were to pull India or even Vietnam closer, that would mean certain to push Russia more into Chinese Camp, and that is not something US want to see. No offend to Indian member, gaining India and losing Russian neutrality is not worth it.

Another factor is, being an allies, that mean troop rotation and ship rotation in and out of those country, even if US and India say yes to alliance, what do US station India or Vietnam with? The US force have 5 overseas station thru out Asia Pacific already, getting another 2 would mean stretching out the already strain resources to redeploy US force in yet again different region, I would have say NO to station troop and ship in Philippine, let alone in Vietnam and India, which is a lot larger than Philippine.

The US policy in the area is, play nice and strength relationship and power of the local country, and have keep a neutrality and status quo in the region, the US could effective contain China with the current asset on hand, why need more?? Until US lose some of the current allies in the region, US is not looking at new blood in the area
 
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This article really sums it up nicely. I seen previous articles that talks about Indo-US alliance to take on China, and how it's over.

They forget this, aside from the fact Indian-Russian alliance is far stronger, India cannot be a status quo power. Not unless she wants to have the exact same influence as a minor economic and military power forever.

Evidence of this is clear, India will not go on record to condemn Russia on Ukraine or sanctions, India is part of BRICS, India is part of AIDB, and India has plans to join SCO, and is probably in already.

India is also frustrated at the lack of voice in the UN, IMF, and other such institutions, pretty much every institution China has been marginalized, India has too, which gives it the exact same reason to want to not be part of the American led order and have no say.

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In the continuing debate between Hugh White and Shaskank Joshi regarding US-India strategic cooperation, I would associate myself closely with the views of White and what he sees as the eventual limits of the relationship.

image.axd


But I would take it one step further. In the long-term, an anti-US coalition consisting of China, Russia and India cannot be discounted.

India presently fears China's growing power. Accordingly, India hedges by deepening relations with the US and status quo middle powers such as Australia. However, India does not perceive itself as a status quo power, but as an emerging great power. As India's confidence grows it will be acting in its own interests, not those of the collective West.

Of course there are clear areas of strategic tension in the bilateral China-India relationship. These include unresolved border disputes, China's patronage of Pakistan and China's growing maritime presence in the Indian Ocean region. But these issues are being managed between the parties and may well be resolved, probably in that order, over the next 10 to 20 years.

It is very hard to see a similar outcome between China and the US.

Last September, Prime Minister Modi and President Xi said they would 'seek an early settlement to the boundary question,' with both countries subsequently appointing new envoys to help manage the dispute. Despite a recent setback, negotiations continue, and there is no reason to believe they will not ultimately succeed. After all, China has settled its land border with 12 of the 14 countries on its periphery, sitting in stark contrast with increasing Chinese maritime assertiveness in the East and South China seas.

As for Pakistan, India's view of China's patronage is complicated. India holds grievances over such issues as China's support for Pakistan's nuclear program, yet it is dangerous for India if Pakistan feels overly threatened. Making Pakistan feel secure is extremely challenging, especially as India's power grows. Thus a transparent Chinese role in Pakistani affairs is in India's long-term interest – transparency that will depend highly on India improving bilateral relations with China.

Finally, China's naval presence in the Indian Ocean is another major concern for India; an expansion due mainly to China's dependency on energy imports from the Middle East. The long-term trajectory of this issue depends on a combination of China reducing its reliance on sea-borne oil imports, and on the improving strength and assertiveness of India. As China has no maritime claims in the Indian Ocean, maritime tension will likely be a consequence of fissures in the broader relationship, not a cause.

As for India and the US, I find it astonishing that after more than 50 years of being repeatedly burned, some Americans still have not learned their lesson (though many have), and continue insisting that China and India are 'natural competitors'. This is false. China and India are historical competitors, but such competition is not necessarily 'natural' and certainly nothing like the strategic competition that exists between China and the US. After all, any Chinese expansion in the Western Pacific will be at America's expense. It is hard to argue that India's expansion into the Indian Ocean is being actively resisted by China.

India is not a pro-Western democratic bulwark, and never will be.

India has one true strategic partner – Russia. That relationship is deep, multifaceted and as old as ANZUS. Modi calls Russia 'a pillar of strength' and India's 'most important defence partner.' Russia has supplied a significant portion of India's military hardware, is supplying most of India's nuclear reactors, and continues to play a significant role in India's military-industrial complex, including submarine and ballistic missile programs. Likewise, Russia's relationship with China is 'the best it's been in 450 years.'

Once you remove the immediate barnacles in the China-India relationship, an interesting coalescence of interests emerge between China, India and Russia.

All three countries have a strong preference for a multipolar world order and the dilution of American hegemony. All three countries consider the principle of state sovereignty to be the pre-eminent norm of international relations, have a mercantile bent to their economic policies and already cooperate on many of these issues through the BRICS grouping.

There are certainly significant pitfalls and risks in the China-India relationship. But should those be navigated successfully, the US may well find itself with a worse relationship with India, Russia and China than the three have with each other. This is because strategic tension between India and China is finite, while their shared interests are broad and enduring.

Photo courtesy of Flickr user Mat McDermott.

No bro... No ally ally game... just bussiness... we are just capitalizing on US hatred for china... but i reallu hope we (india china russia) sometime in future can make an alliance EU type....BRICS is kind of failure...
 
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The question should be, Did US want anymore allies in Asia? The answer is a giant big NO!

As I said on the other thread, which is deleted by Chinese Mod anyway, if what we are talking about is US pivot to Asia and the US policy to contain China, then the current US allies together with US have and can be done more than that already.

Combine US current Allies, allies defined as country in Asia have defence pact AND have US force present in their country (Beside Taiwan). Australia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and US Pacific Fleet. The number of warship has already outnumber PLAN about 1:1.4 (About 30 % more) Together the US current allies and US pacific Fleet have

4 Fleet Carrier - `285 Fighters
8 LHD, LHA/Light Carrier (4 US LHD, LHA, 2 JMSDF LHD,1 ROK LHD, 1 RAN)
12 Cruiser
74 Destroyer (35-40 US, 28 JMSDF, 12 ROKN, 4 ROCN)
74 Frigate (19 JMSDF, 11 ROKN, 12 RAN, 6 RSN, 26 ROCN)
70 + Submarine ( 35-40 US, 12 JMSDF, 13 ROKN, 6 RAN, 7 RSN, 2 ROCN, not counting SSBN)

Compare to the current PLAN strength.

1 Light Carrier
26 Destroyer
47 Frigate
59 Submarine (Not Including SSBN)

On Average, the Current Allies strength is at 150% of PLAN on ship to ship comparison. That's before the Allies outside Asia/Pacific (UK, German etc.) and discounting New Zealand's, and does not count US Atlantic Commands and US Coast Guard.

The question is, if US can effectively contain China with its allies at the moment? Why want more? The answer is, they don't, as i said on the other thread, US does not need both India and Vietnam into US camp, but as long as they stay neutral in the SCS issue, and then the US can effectively trap PLAN within SCS by current Allies asset only.
Another problem why US wanted India and Vietnam to be neutral is very simple, Russia. At present, Russia is a non-party toward South/South East Asia, Russia strength are deployed in North Sea and Black Sea at the moment, the Russian Pacific Fleet is 6 surface ship and some 20 sub-surface ship. If US were to pull India or even Vietnam closer, that would mean certain to push Russia more into Chinese Camp, and that is not something US want to see. No offend to Indian member, gaining India and losing Russian neutrality is not worth it.

Another factor is, being an allies, that mean troop rotation and ship rotation in and out of those country, even if US and India say yes to alliance, what do US station India or Vietnam with? The US force have 5 overseas station thru out Asia Pacific already, getting another 2 would mean stretching out the already strain resources to redeploy US force in yet again different region, I would have say NO to station troop and ship in Philippine, let alone in Vietnam and India, which is a lot larger than Philippine.

The US policy in the area is, play nice and strength relationship and power of the local country, and have keep a neutrality and status quo in the region, the US could effective contain China with the current asset on hand, why need more?? Until US lose some of the current allies in the region, US is not looking at new blood in the area
No. US can't afford to add any more allies because of their massive debts.
 
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No. US can't afford to add any more allies because of their massive debts.

幾有道理, but why US pay for it themselves when they can ask other to buy US treasury bond and pay for it by others

Thank You Uncle Xi for paying for USS Zumwalt

Hoq much China into US treasury bond now? 2 trillions? That can Easily be all the Ship worth from the whole US Navy, lol, so in a way Chinese financing all the ship the US used against China?
 
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A very good article.

Thanks for posting this.
 
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