India-Bangladesh relations.

[blitz]

Mr. Munshi,

I have been following the discussion between you and other folks here for sometime. Setting all my personal opinions aside, i have a few question for you sir.

1. Why do you think that India and Bangladesh's relations are so tensed ? What is India doing wrong ?

2. As a Bangladeshi, how would you like India to conduct itself when dealing with your country ?

3. What can, in your opinion, be done to have normal, friendly and prosperous relations between India and Bangladesh ?

I might or might not necessarily agree with your opinion, but i want to know what you think is the solution to this.

Thank You

 

[blitz]

Waiting for Mr. Munshi's response. If there is one thing i have learnt in life, it is that you will find a thousand people to blame, ridicule and destroy something, but you will be lucky to find one person who can actually build something or offer an intelligent solution.

To destroy is far easier than to build.

 

[Adux]

Wrong Wrong thing to do son, wait for the onslaught of conspiracy with a twist of jAMES bond

 

[blitz]

Adux, i dont know old you are, but please do not patronize me with condescending words such as 'son'.

Secondly, i am mostly interested in Mr. Munshi's answer to the 2 and 3 questions.

 

[Adux]

Is there something called a humour bone in your system. I aint here to patronize anyone, especially a unknown new member like you with 19 posts.
You can read Munshi's thread, ABC(Adux, Bull, Con) are the RAW gang according to him. This is a guy who doesnt have a clear head, and all of three of us have tried in our own way to understand his views as well as convey's ours. Sadly or in my case I am happy that i didnt understand his crazy mind. Its way ahead of a layman like me. A person who compares economics of a country or its political situation on only Land Mass...I am sorry I dont have time for that kind of Shyt, But I am sure you have otherwise even after reading his thread you woundnt be posting this.

And I am only 25, I am sure you are much above 35 and so on. My apologizes again.

 

[intruder]

Munshi beta where r u ....

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Waiting for Mr. Munshi's response. If there is one thing i have learnt in life, it is that you will find a thousand people to blame, ridicule and destroy something, but you will be lucky to find one person who can actually build something or offer an intelligent solution.

To destroy is far easier than to build.

I apologize for the delay but I only saw this thread today (July 10, 2007). Your questions deserve an answer and I will try my best to provide a few.

1. In reference to your first question the problem in relations between India and Bangladesh is historical. Partly it emanates from a distrust that goes back to the time of partition in 1947. In this regard, Indian policy makers have been under the mistaken impression that the break-up of Pakistan in 1971 necessarily meant a rejection of religion as a defining element of identity in the newly created Bangladesh but this was not so. For Bangladeshis the differences between East and West Pakistan were primarily regional, economic and linguistic. It was also believed that the combination of Bhutto-Indira-Mujib simply did not allow for compromise between East and West with a hostile India in-between. In any case the misunderstanding on the part of India made it believe that Bangladesh would come closer to West Bengal due to linguistic similarities and to the rest of India also. However, after independence in 1971 there were many who saw how the Indian army behaved and that it appeared to support political elements who quickly became despised in Bangladesh and were eliminated in 1975 in the 15th August coup. India was also blamed for pushing Mujib into wrong policies that created famine and his ill fated experiment with dictatorship. Anyway, after 1975 there was a correction in outlook in Bangladesh which was more acceptable to the vast population of the country but was viewed with apprehension by India. From this moment onwards relations became distinctly frosty and suspicious with Bangladesh believing that it was being dominated by India and the latter seeing its neighbour as a future military and economic threat. The seven point agreement signed between Indira and Mujib before India had intervened in the 1971 stated that Bangladesh would not have a standing army and that India would look after its neighbours security and even helping in creating the dreaded paramilitary force Rakkhi Bahini. This did not go down well in many quarters. To cut a long story short India has intentionally slighted Bangladesh on numerous issues such as on the enclaves, water sharing, trade, border disputes, maritime encroachment and many other such matters that would be too long to rehearse here. There is an impression in India that a strong Bangladesh could spell disaster for India’s North-East and other states that have an insurgency problem. More recently the China factor has also become a concern for India with Bangladesh increasing cooperation with that country.

2. As a Bangladeshi I would prefer that India stop behaving like a big brother and think that it will get everything its own way. India must recognize that Bangladesh is a sovereign nation not to be bullied or intimidated. It cannot expect that Bangladeshi interests and Indian interests will coincide on every single issue or that Dhaka will compromise its own security or independence to accommodate Indian regional fears for which it unfairly blames Bangladesh.

3. To improve relations between the two countries a cooperative regional framework is required. It was for this reason that SAARC was created but due to Indian intransigence after almost two decades the body is still to really take off. While all the other countries in South Asia wish to see SAARC make a bigger impact India has several times stalled progress believing that its own interests would be compromised but this has also created distrust with all its other neighbours. Now India is talking about connectivity which should actually have taken second place to economic matters. Connectivity for Bangladesh means allowing transit facilities which is unacceptable because of security implications which does not seem to register in New Delhi. The same problem also applies to the gas pipeline from Myanmar which also raises security issues for Bangladesh. If India wished to be really sincere with its neighbour it would have made more progress on economic issues instead of on connectivity which is viewed as a threat and a means to solve its insurgency problem using Bangladesh territory but spreading the risk to the latter country.

I have only raised a fraction of the issues bedeviling relations between the two countries but I think you can appreciate the immensity of the problem. I have avoided bringing in the issue of the role of India’s intelligence agency in causing rifts and also propaganda because there are some on this forum who already think that I am paranoid even after all the evidence I have provided. My impression is that they are deliberately avoiding asking the difficult questions and they have no interest in seeking an answer but I sometimes enjoy having ‘verbal’ duels with them which is not meant to be taken seriously although for some inexplicable reason they go over the top but I can give as good as I get.

Anyway I would be interested to know your views on the matter and how you think our two countries may move forward.

 

[Contrarian]

You have not answered blitz's questions Munshi. He asked you for solutions, proper reasons, not just the usual rant that India should not behave like this or that. Allow me to elaborate.

1. In reference to your first question the problem in relations between India and Bangladesh is historical. Partly it emanates from a distrust that goes back to the time of partition in 1947. In this regard, Indian policy makers have been under the mistaken impression that the break-up of Pakistan in 1971 necessarily meant a rejection of religion as a defining element of identity in the newly created Bangladesh but this was not so. For Bangladeshis the differences between East and West Pakistan were primarily regional, economic and linguistic. It was also believed that the combination of Bhutto-Indira-Mujib simply did not allow for compromise between East and West with a hostile India in-between. In any case the misunderstanding on the part of India made it believe that Bangladesh would come closer to West Bengal due to linguistic similarities and to the rest of India also. However, after independence in 1971 there were many who saw how the Indian army behaved and that it appeared to support political elements who quickly became despised in Bangladesh and were eliminated in 1975 in the 15th August coup. India was also blamed for pushing Mujib into wrong policies that created famine and his ill fated experiment with dictatorship. Anyway, after 1975 there was a correction in outlook in Bangladesh which was more acceptable to the vast population of the country but was viewed with apprehension by India. From this moment onwards relations became distinctly frosty and suspicious with Bangladesh believing that it was being dominated by India and the latter seeing its neighbour as a future military and economic threat. The seven point agreement signed between Indira and Mujib before India had intervened in the 1971 stated that Bangladesh would not have a standing army and that India would look after its neighbours security and even helping in creating the dreaded paramilitary force Rakkhi Bahini. This did not go down well in many quarters. To cut a long story short India has intentionally slighted Bangladesh on numerous issues such as on the enclaves, water sharing, trade, border disputes, maritime encroachment and many other such matters that would be too long to rehearse here. There is an impression in India that a strong Bangladesh could spell disaster for India’s North-East and other states that have an insurgency problem. More recently the China factor has also become a concern for India with Bangladesh increasing cooperation with that country.

2. As a Bangladeshi I would prefer that India stop behaving like a big brother and think that it will get everything its own way. India must recognize that Bangladesh is a sovereign nation not to be bullied or intimidated. It cannot expect that Bangladeshi interests and Indian interests will coincide on every single issue or that Dhaka will compromise its own security or independence to accommodate Indian regional fears for which it unfairly blames Bangladesh. .

Your first post is just a general idea of the problems. Now go into specifics.

How exactly is India behaving like a big brother or a bully? If there is a disputed peice of land, that both countries believe that belongs to them rightfully, you expect India to forgo the land, so that it does appear as a bully? Or India claiming what it believes is her, is being a 'bully' to you?

As far as the blame goes for the NE insurgency, Your own government recently admitted that there were some terrorist camps in your country and they would try their best to eliminate them, and they did not have the governments support. And this is teh same govt courtesy of which ties between India and Bangladesh are again warming.

3. To improve relations between the two countries a cooperative regional framework is required. It was for this reason that SAARC was created but due to Indian intransigence after almost two decades the body is still to really take off. While all the other countries in South Asia wish to see SAARC make a bigger impact India has several times stalled progress believing that its own interests would be compromised but this has also created distrust with all its other neighbours. .

If you had read about the SAARC properly, you would have noticed that the problem lies in Pakistan, who is stalling the regional framework and not India. But you are brainwashed and i know you are a Pakistani supporter. The SAFTA was not implemented because Pakistan refuses to give the same rights to India that it is willing to give to other countries. It wants to stick with the old 'positive list' kind of trade. Now that is the complete opposite of an FTA. India has been willing to give the normal concessions it is giving to every country to Pakistan, the same concessions that every country is willing to share and give. Only Pakistan is the thorn in even SAFTA. This is the reason BIMSTEC was created. Dont tell me you dont know about it.

Now India is talking about connectivity which should actually have taken second place to economic matters. Connectivity for Bangladesh means allowing transit facilities which is unacceptable because of security implications which does not seem to register in New Delhi. The same problem also applies to the gas pipeline from Myanmar which also raises security issues for Bangladesh. If India wished to be really sincere with its neighbour it would have made more progress on economic issues instead of on connectivity which is viewed as a threat and a means to solve its insurgency problem using Bangladesh territory but spreading the risk to the latter country. .

If it plans to open up connectivity between India and Bangladesh, then you should be happy, the roads and rail networks that would be built, would be easily monitored rather than any illegal traffic, it would give all the legitimate traders a good route and increase trade between the two countries.

The gas pipeline would have given Bangladesh transit fees, some much needed cash.
How does having a gas pipeline running through BD mean spreading risk to BD?

I have only raised a fraction of the issues bedeviling relations between the two countries but I think you can appreciate the immensity of the problem. I have avoided bringing in the issue of the role of India’s intelligence agency in causing rifts and also propaganda because there are some on this forum who already think that I am paranoid even after all the evidence I have provided. My impression is that they are deliberately avoiding asking the difficult questions and they have no interest in seeking an answer but I sometimes enjoy having ‘verbal’ duels with them which is not meant to be taken seriously although for some inexplicable reason they go over the top but I can give as good as I get.

Anyway I would be interested to know your views on the matter and how you think our two countries may move forward.

Please give answers now. And proper technical answers, not the general statements about INdia being this and doing that, etc, etc.

 

[Adux]

No rail and No other connection with Bangladesh, let them live there happily built a wall or something
I am against illegal bangladeshi's in my country

 

[blitz]

self deleted

 

[BanglaBhoot]

How exactly is India behaving like a big brother or a bully? If there is a disputed piece of land, that both countries believe that belongs to them rightfully, you expect India to forgo the land, so that it does appear as a bully? Or India claiming what it believes is her, is being a 'bully' to you?

India had signed a treaty with Bangladesh to hand over certain lands that were inside their territory from the time of partition in 1947 and Bangladesh would do the same in the case of Indian territory. Mujib went through with his part of the agreement but after 36 years India is still stalling and making excuses. India recently encroached on 19000 sq miles of Bangladesh maritime territory to claim bidding blocks for gas and oil exploration. India is also pursuing river linking projects but not considering the environmental affects on Bangladesh although India has the same complaint against China and calls it bullying. BSF constantly uses Bangladeshis as target practice and kills scores every year.

Is this enough or do you want more!

As far as the blame goes for the NE insurgency, Your own government recently admitted that there were some terrorist camps in your country and they would try their best to eliminate them, and they did not have the governments support. And this is the same govt courtesy of which ties between India and Bangladesh are again warming.

The BD government never admitted that there were terrorist camps inside the country. The Foreign Affairs Advisor merely noted that he would look into the issue and if they existed it would be dealt with. That is not an admission.

If you had read about the SAARC properly, you would have noticed that the problem lies in Pakistan, who is stalling the regional framework and not India. But you are brainwashed and i know you are a Pakistani supporter. The SAFTA was not implemented because Pakistan refuses to give the same rights to India that it is willing to give to other countries. It wants to stick with the old 'positive list' kind of trade. Now that is the complete opposite of an FTA. India has been willing to give the normal concessions it is giving to every country to Pakistan, the same concessions that every country is willing to share and give. Only Pakistan is the thorn in even SAFTA. This is the reason BIMSTEC was created. Dont tell me you dont know about it.

I think Pakistan has every reason to be wary about India but I cannot comment on the details of this issue which would require a Pakistani to properly answer.

If it plans to open up connectivity between India and Bangladesh, then you should be happy, the roads and rail networks that would be built, would be easily monitored rather than any illegal traffic, it would give all the legitimate traders a good route and increase trade between the two countries. The gas pipeline would have given Bangladesh transit fees, some much needed cash. How does having a gas pipeline running through BD mean spreading risk to BD?

Bangladesh now has the means to build roads and rail networks itself and we do not need Indian money to do it. Also the money we would get from transit fees for the gas pipeline would be severely reduced due to the security costs for maintaining the line. Really not worth it for us. Too much hassle. This would be worth our while if India allowed power import from Bhutan and Nepal into Bangladesh but it has consistently said no. So why should we say yes to India’s proposal.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Bangladesh and India

"Viewpoint"

Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal

NFB - July 10 2007

As a self-imagined super power of South Asia, India has always attempted to project itself as a great power that its neighbors should fear and oblige. New Delhi tried, though quite unsuccessfully, snatch the international positions and power for itself to the detriment of its neighbors. As a result, India's relations have been badly strained not only with Pakistan, but also with its another neighbor Bangladesh. India's obnoxious ties with Pakistan are fairly known to the world, but not the ill-treating relations with Bangladesh. As New Delhi’s strenuous efforts to snub the Pakistani leaders and isolate Pakistan failed miserably, it turned to Dhaka to slam it on issues that are common to both.

Emerging Indo-Pakistan relations seem to have replaced the so-called “cross-border-terrorism” with cross-border trade and oil pipelines. New Delhi looks down upon Dhaka, as it did on Pakistan for a long time, in a sustained manner and all high level talks between the two have not, therefore, yielded any significant improvement. India's repeated claims for credit for the creation of Bangladesh by separating former East Pakistan from Pakistan can not be doubted. But the real cause and the amount of sincerity in creating independent states by India as a noble principle can certainly be doubted and questioned. New Delhi, like Russia and many others, uses different yard-sticks in measuring virtues of independence for freedom loving peoples or nations.

Although the division of Pakistan into two parts was unbearable for Pakistani leadership initially, Islamabad did come to accept the reality of Bangladesh existing as a sovereign nation. The fact that as a smaller country it could concentrate on its economic and other issues better was realized in due course in Pakistan and Islamabad began to worry less about loss of East Pakistan and focused on its developmental activities. But for New Delhi the creation of Bangladesh has become a worry in due course, as it has to now face two Muslim nations, one on either side. India thus over years had made Bangladesh an opponent and a potential enemy as much as Pakistan is treated as an enemy on par with China.

Following a bloody Indo-Pakistan war initiated by India, ostensibly to teach a lesson to Pakistan, Bangladesh became a sovereign state during the Congress regime in India. As India, all of sudden, claims credit for the birth of Bangladesh now, it opens up a few issues regarding India's responsibilities and its attitude to the concept of independence. As the chief architect for the creation of Bangladesh, India also has to shoulder the chief responsibility to assist it to become a strong nation as well by enhancing its economic and security environment. World perhaps had expected that India would even share its scientific and nuclear facility with Bangladesh, since Pakistan also has acquired it, and involve Dhaka in India’s space research efforts as well. However, India neither shares nor terminates its nuclear facility so as to prove itself either as a dependable neighbor or as a responsible and respectable member of world community interested in world peace and disarmament.

Unfortunately, instead of helping Bangladesh overcome its socio-economic difficulties and advance its legitimate technological requirements, New Delhi behaves quite indifferently. India, an established anti-Muslim and anti-democratic country, track Muslims both in India and Bangladesh as so-called terrorists, and questions, like US does it with regard to Middle East for energy reasons, the democratic frame of that country.

Indian policy to Dhaka pursued over years reveals that with the creation of Bangladesh, New Delhi only quenched its blood thirst by starting war with Pakistan, taking revenge by dividing Pakistan. From the stand point of a credible supporter of regional stability and development, India should have viewed further development of Bangladesh essential for peaceful development of the region and guide that nation as an elder brother dies, and not to behave like a big brother, as it seems to be doing right now. That puts unnecessary stains on New Delhi’s regional policy. After all, as a leader of the region as well as a former NAM leader, India was viewed as a staunch supporter of the cause of future of Bangladesh.

However, Bangladesh indeed has made progress on its own. According to a brief by World Bank (2005), among Bangladesh’s most significant obstacles to growth are poor governance and weak public institutions. But despite these hurdles, the country has achieved an average annual growth rate of 5% since 1990. Bangladesh has seen a dramatic increase in FRI. A number of multinational corporations, including Unocal Corp. and Tata have made major investments, with the natural gas sector being a priority. In December 2005, the Central Bank of Bangladesh projected GDP growth around 6.5%.

Bangladesh is poised to overtake India in garment exports at the end of current fiscal year in the wake of an appreciating rupee, leaders and experts of Indian Textile Industries projected on Thursday. Last year, India exported garments worth US $ 8 billion, whereas Bangladesh notched up around US $ 7.8 billion. With low manufacturing costs coupled with several incentives in the overseas market, Bangladesh apparel exports have continuously been rising at a rate of 20-25 per cent.

Despite India’s accountability for the miserable position of Bangladesh, the nation has made tremendous progress. A recent report reflects that Bangladesh has secured the 16th position pushing India to a far away the 100th. It seems Bangladesh is surging ahead amid turbulences and chaos. Led by an brilliant economist and a former top civil servant, Dr Fakhruddin Ahmad, the caretaker government has taken all right steps to stem corruption and reduce the impact on the e national development by political infighting between two political rivals — Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina. However, if the political parties refuse to let democracy work in pursuit of their old goals of corruption and nepotism, Bangladesh may not be freed from any dangerous situation.

Now that Pakistan is fast developing New Delhi can do very little to restrain it in any way, despite the “nuclear deal” and “strategic partnership” it is trying with USA and, therefore, it seems India is taking it on Bangladesh, a weak nation being crushed by political instability and rampant corruption. Strange though it may seem, while it seeks foreign aid and loans and other favors from developed nations and economic institutions by seeking sumptuous free lunches, at times on its own terms, New Delhi often reminds Dhaka that there is no "free lunch" in international politics.

Even as India and Pakistan are seen to be coming closer day by day, the Indo-Bangladesh ties suffer from a lot of bottle-necks. When people freely cross borders among India, Nepal and Bhutan for socio-economic reasons, India makes a big hue and cry when a few Bangladeshis come to India for social reasons or to earn their bread. It looks as if New Delhi is keen to keep Bangladesh a weak country that should salute and fear India, obviously for economic and strategic reasons. The steps taken by India to check so-called cross border terrorism and "illegal immigration" have been resented by Bangladesh. The result has been regular skirmishes between the border guards of two countries and constant tensions among the border relatives.

It is difficult to know, when Bangladesh could be easily created by bifurcating Pakistan with a deadly war, what stops India from making Tibet independent as well and see that a sovereign Tibetan state with a government, which India houses at present in Himachal Pradesh, is established in Tibet itself to fulfill the cherished aspirations of Tibetans. That way Tibetans can live in peace, both in Tibet as well. The Tibetans in India have been pressing the Government of India to obtain their independence from China.

Then the question of freedom for Kashmir which was virtually annexed by India soon after it became free from England. For the last two decades or so Kashmir valley has been deadly militarized in great tempos and peace is totally lost in the state. Should not India consider freeing Kashmir at least now after killing people en-masse and properties destroyed unrelentingly, so that it can once again become independent country?

New Delhi should alter its “enemy” mindset. By establishing soft borders as well as visa-free regime between Kashmir and India, New Delhi could have good neighborly relations with Kashmir, if it so desires. Initially, then, Kashmir could have a pro-India Prime minister/President, if government of India insists, so as to ensure peaceful transition of power a legitimate government. But the best option could be to leave the matter to the UN which could over-see the transfer of power as well the establishment of the new State with an elected government.

India should at least be seen to be serious and sincere in addressing the question of Independence in a larger perspective so that Tibet and Kashmir issues could be positively resolved in an amicable manner and, if necessary, by taking lead in freedom struggles of the nations seeking independence. That will certain add credibility to its claims of being the largest democracy. In doing so, India could make its claim of independence of Bangladesh a sincere case for international reference.

If, however, India still refuses to use its diplomatic and security as well as trade resources to free Tibet and grant independence to Kashmir, the claims it stakes for Bangladesh's independence looks farce and ridiculous. Independence is indeed a noble concept and it should not be, in consideration of the so-called national interest, clean-bowled just like that, please! There needs to be cooperation among the nations in South Asia and for which India's constructive, proactive role is inevitable. Other wise all efforts for a strong SAARC or an Asian Union like EU, are meaningless! Indian Media could be kind to India's neighbors too.

_________________

Dr. Abdul Ruff Colachal

Research Scholar, School of International Studies
India
http://www.bangladesh-web.com/view....&hidType=HIG&hidRecord=0000000000000000165364

 

[Contrarian]

God damn, they call the fcuking huge/massive/superduper influx of BD'is into India a 'small group' of people crossing over!

In AP, the intial population of Muslims was 4%, now its 40% and guess what, 90% is Bangladeshi. They come in hordes !

The author calls the 71 war as India intitated ! heh and sees the indo us nuke deal as being against BD !
WTF? Since when has BD become a strategic threat for India !

 

[intruder]

The seven point agreement signed between Indira and Mujib before India had intervened in the 1971 stated that Bangladesh would not have a standing army and that India would look after its neighbours security and even helping in creating the dreaded paramilitary force Rakkhi Bahini.

Munshi, can you please provide us link(s) for above issue (seven point agreement ) .. i not able to find any details on web

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Munshi, can you please provide us link(s) for above issue (seven point agreement ) .. i not able to find any details on web

A 2006 book by Dr. Kalidas Baidya (a former RAW officer) discloses the contents of the 7 point agreement.