India and US to talk on giving access to each other’s military bases and ports

[Oracle 33]

I believe its to counter Chinese in the Indian ocean region !!!

Chinese have no bases in the Indian ocean region, we have a island base where most of their shipping oil supply goes through.

 

[SrNair]

India should move its game very carefully in this case .
Whatever it is USA is a Superpower and any relation with them should always under good scrutiny of our public ,Parliament and media.
We should extract maximum benefit from this deal if it happens .And should be always for our own advantage .
An alternative way is to drag these discussion for at least on decade.Then we will have a blue water navy on globalscale .So we can also use US bases .
We should also have assurance from them that this wont use against our friends Russia,.

 

[Abingdonboy]

You can call me whatever from an idiot to may be a war monger or a eternal hater..But all this seems to be a plan with multifold ramifications. Let me explain few of the points

1. USA is now officially putting a contingency plan to undercut and undermine the N arsenal of Pakistan. Several of the folks have stated that US does have a contingency plan to take out Pakistan's N weapon storage and production center. This secret project is now officially put in place with a modified agreement and naming it with a cover like LSA.

2. The sharing of technology will anyway happen as USA is very clear to prop up India and Japan as chief measures to take on China. USA does fear China not in military terms as of now but perhaps in another 2 decades if China could maintain its awesome economic growth. The bigger paranoia comes from the fact that China is heavily invested in USD and many US conglomerates are dependent too much on China. This is why there seems to be an effort to shift industries out of China and more into India and play out a policy where the Chinese investments in USD over time does not make them have a capability to take hard stance against USA on economic front.

3. These agreements seems to be the precusor to few more things.

• Consultancy role of USA for black projects like N ACC and a role requested by USA for India's SSN projects (An article some months back hinted on USA role for N Sub - India may get US, French cos as partners for building nuclear submarines - The Economic Times

Quote: Sources told ET that senior representatives from the submarine branch of a leading US conglomerate have met key Indian defence ministry officials regarding the project. The efforts included a top level meeting in July. The discussions have been kept low key given the sensitivity of the project and details are not available.

• A second line of MMRCA aircraft beyond Rafale. The actual discussion as per my own source is a surprise and shocker for me. The discussion is on F35 numbering 100+ first for IAF and a carrier version for the N-ACC which would be another 50. A special privilege would be direct entry to the F35 consortium, the sharing of tech from Israel (they are the deal backers and first point of discussion with India on this) and a regional MRO for F35s based out of Asian and African region leaving just Japan& Australian MRO work perhaps directly in USA. The PM meeting LM chief was basically a meeting to showcase LM's desire to "assemble" F35s in India.
• In return the famed GE 414 uprated version, its TOT partially, consulting role in Kaveri K10+ and help in AMCA and LCA projects

Another shocker: When DM MP came to know about the same, within few days few more things evolved in Dassault Rafale deal . Chiefly, the Rafale F3R program (a new customised engine uprated with avionics and software version) production plan in Indian MII, the new version initially called F4 may be known as F3R2 with advanced radars and major new upgrades under MLU all of these were preponed in a manner which seems to suggest a far more lucrative Rafale production , planned upgrades etc under MII. On top its clear that F3R or later F3R2 can be back compatible to F3 OT4 (the 36 flyaway which we are buying). All this by 2021-25 timeframe.

• The last but not the least one - USA did offer a more integrated role in Indian BMD development with these above deals. This is where the rumored THAAD/Patriot approach was made (Something which was picked up by PSK but he did not know why it was really offered).

Its imperatively clear that Indian BMD at present is with S300s bought in 90s and S400 purchase scheduled to be deployed fully by 2017-18. The Indian ambition of 4 satellite military surveillance and BMD layer at space is well known to both Russia and USA. USA seems to be of the opinion that they can integrate the Indian Satellite system with their own dedicated satellite system to provide a much more detailed control over India's airspace. Something which MOD is not comfortable as of now as it wants an independent system. Who knows if a compromise is worked out on this too.

++
India needs to tread very carefully here. Its true that its an opportunity but then historically USA folks have never been friends to anyone except the lucrative source of money making markets. These new opportunities needs India to balance out Russia India relations and India USA relations. USA is also very keen to transform India Israel relationship to India Israel USA troika front. Of course Israel and India shares a different relationship but then this troika formation if and when done can be a potentially explosive development.

Downside is the increased risk of India China relationship and a friend Russia who may not trust India like before.

@Abingdonboy : You are going to get multiple headaches. DM MP visit to ACC and a base was not a demo for N ACC. It was a much deeper ploy to showcase what potential transformations USA India relationships can have. In Ashton Carter, US government has got a man who keeps his words and may make the relationship level deeper then before. But its going to be a costly affair, a possible second marriage and a bigger shocking divorce with proportionate payouts. (I hope you get what i am meaning of whom we may lost while gaining whom)

A headache indeed my friend!

This would mark a HUGE strategic shift across the board and I'm unsure if Indo-US ties are at this level as of yet or if the Indian side even desires for them to be.

BMD alone is a strategically sensitive issue, going for the THAAD would be rather remarkable and doesn't seem to fit with India's ojective of protecting its strategic autonomy and you have already pointed to issues (US seeking to assert some control over Indian space assets).


Let's just hope for the Rafale part to be true, this is perhaps the most pressing- the rest can be addressed in the long term.

 

[mirage]

USA has plan to mess with everybody in this region, wherever it goes it creates chaos to ensure its military presence.
Don't want to turn it into middle east.
Did not you hear about US plan to chain Asia and Pacific region with its 60% naval assets by 2020 ?
when China will see US presence in India, surely will make some aggressive plan, then US will say, see you need me, let me stay

aggressive plans of china @ lol , dont you know , the government has changed in Bharat ?

 

[Dash]

visionary always first see that coming, if you take lesson from history and around the world, it is not happy moment for Indians

Buddy, I would agree with you that we need to take lessons from history. And if we have taken true lessons then we must use those lessons to use to our benifits while not compromising on policies. Right now the time asks us to use the offer at hand to balance the parity that exists between 2 countries in terms of mutual co-operation in defence. While I am fully aware of the direction US will stear it towards, once we enter into handshaking, but let me assure you, from apersonal point of view as I know how GOI operates, that further encroachment by US will not be entertained.

As an example, after we signed nuclear deal with USA, we stuck to our liability clause, that the US wanted to be removed so that their companies can operate in India. We didnt even move an inch, and allowed Russia and France to operfate under the same clause, eventually getting USA to agree to it (on certain terms of cource, but our terms).

We know what we do and we wont let anyone interfere in our policies. Let's be clear on that. I am of the view that we dont loose anything by signing LSA. We tend to gain, on peaceful and military grouns, peacefule grounds more though and it will not be a threat for any neighbour. I am sure godforbid, if there is a disaster in BD tomorrow, you can see Indian and American ships moving faster than today.

And USA does have similar agreements with Germany and France during Iraq qar, I dont see that threatened teh region and I didnt see US achieving any major military gains from such agreement. Its purely logistics and nothing else.

 

[ravi kiran]

I think we should stay away from USA but we are facing enemy like china. So it would be good to have strong allies.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

India does not have the S-300 system as it never purchased it.

I heard the same till in Russian forums i found this .. The operator name includes country names India and sits from RIA Novosti 2008

Posted the same in S-400 thread too..
5 system came in 90s.. 1 is protecting Delhi and 1 in mumbai. The rest 3 in Western border BTW it was another hush hush deal...

 

[SrNair]

USA has plan to mess with everybody in this region, wherever it goes it creates chaos to ensure its military presence.
Don't want to turn it into middle east.
Did not you hear about US plan to chain Asia and Pacific region with its 60% naval assets by 2020 ?
when China will see US presence in India, surely will make some aggressive plan, then US will say, see you need me, let me stay

I dont think so.
Judging from the current modernization in IN ,we dont need US support ot tackle China in IOR .
Unlike in ME .you have Republic of India in here .Trust me , US cant do anything in this area with Indian support.
China wont make any aggressive move , they know about India's neutral policy .Provoking India will undermine their status in this area once and for all.

 

[Dash]

View attachment 281138

I heard the same till in Russian forums i found this .. The operator name includes country names India and sits from RIA Novosti 2008

Posted the same in S-400 thread too..
5 system came in 90s.. 1 is protecting Delhi and 1 in mumbai. The rest 3 in Western border BTW it was another hush hush deal...

Bro..I'm skeptical about that...as far as I know and I have proof.. S300 was rejected coz they failed in hot Indian conditions... We were offered S300 pmu..and to be honest we didn't like it....you need to read between lines why China and India are buying it.....think...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Bro..I'm skeptical about that...as far as I know and I have proof.. S300 was rejected coz they failed in hot Indian conditions... We were offered S300 pmu..and to be honest we didn't like it....you need to read between lines why China and India are buying it.....think...

LOLWA, that news has never been officially confirmed or denied; an d that is the way that its gonna remain. Remember that all that took place before all the Nuclear deals took place, the requirements were different but had to be met anyway

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Bro..I'm skeptical about that...as far as I know and I have proof.. S300 was rejected coz they failed in hot Indian conditions... We were offered S300 pmu..and to be honest we didn't like it....you need to read between lines why China and India are buying it.....think...

Perhaps you may be correct but what i do know is that 300s In India were very very limited in numbers.. I mean in terms of missiles and the whole system.. TBH the rest 3 systems were initially placed in Punjab and 2 in Rajasthan. The Rajasthan ones were again shifted out as the heat proved too much for actual system performance and open desert environment made detection way too easier (few people know that American satellites do take a picture of Rajasthan almost daily compiling a database of movements and tracking any changes for fear of N explosions testing..)... The re allocation to where is unknown. Some pointed out movement closer to Delhi giving more coverage within India and using dual usage of protecting Delhi as well..

Unfortunately the new purchase beyond all the usual is also bcz of one small mystery. The S-400 system are suppose to come by 2017-18. The reason of new purchases is not any country specific rather it arises from the most basic need based issue, - SHelf Life of missiles which are bulky, inferiro and limited in range but costing almost he same ones as modern missiles which are sleeker, longer in range and far more advanced. IN fact i am not even sure if the version we have in 300, is having a range beyond 100-150 odd kms.. (lol) of course due to being earlier vintage systems. The upgradation and missile numbers pucrhase is ineffective as compared to say a new purchase of S-400 system with some capability bought of S-500 Especially as 300 we have is sureshot pre 1998 bought implying almost 20 years of life used up for missiles and implying very fag end of shelf life

 

[illusion8]

This is really worrying issue for regional peace

The peace is actually being disturbed by china with all its a aggressiveness moves in its entire surrounding regions.

 

[Oracle 33]

View attachment 281138

I heard the same till in Russian forums i found this .. The operator name includes country names India and sits from RIA Novosti 2008

Posted the same in S-400 thread too..
5 system came in 90s.. 1 is protecting Delhi and 1 in mumbai. The rest 3 in Western border BTW it was another hush hush deal...

My reports say it is just a rumour and no system has been purchased.

Life of Soldiers: The Mystery of S 300 in India

Russia has offered India its S-300V SAM anti-missile system with a capability of destroying and intercepting aero-ballistic and tactical ballistic missiles in a heavy jamming environment. It comes at a time when India is negotiating with the US for the supply of the upgraded patriot anti-missile and the Israeli Arrow system.
Industry sources said that this showed that New Delhi was keeping options open on multi-dimensional missile attack protection programme.
Russian officials attending the third Defepxo 2004 have offered India an investment stake in the development of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft on the pattern of jointly developed supersonic Brahmos cruise missile.

 

[Dash]

LOLWA, that news has never been officially confirmed or denied; an d that is the way that its gonna remain. Remember that all that took place before all the Nuclear deals took place, the requirements were different but had to be met anyway

They are just rumors and nothing. If I am correct then you are referring to a timeline around 1995. There were unconfirmed reports that India will buy S 300 after Pakistan baught M-9 and M-11 ballistic missiles from China to protect Delihi and 5 batteries were discussed. But they failed the test, however I will leave upto the reader to make up his mind in favor of it or not. I however think it was denied by MoD too, but I cant find a link. Anyway Iam going offtopic.

Perhaps you may be correct but what i do know is that 300s In India were very very limited in numbers.. I mean in terms of missiles and the whole system.. TBH the rest 3 systems were initially placed in Punjab and 2 in Rajasthan. The Rajasthan ones were again shifted out as the heat proved too much for actual system performance and open desert environment made detection way too easier (few people know that American satellites do take a picture of Rajasthan almost daily compiling a database of movements and tracking any changes for fear of N explosions testing..)... The re allocation to where is unknown. Some pointed out movement closer to Delhi giving more coverage within India and using dual usage of protecting Delhi as well..

Unfortunately the new purchase beyond all the usual is also bcz of one small mystery. The S-400 system are suppose to come by 2017-18. The reason of new purchases is not any country specific rather it arises from the most basic need based issue, - SHelf Life of missiles which are bulky, inferiro and limited in range but costing almost he same ones as modern missiles which are sleeker, longer in range and far more advanced. IN fact i am not even sure if the version we have in 300, is having a range beyond 100-150 odd kms.. (lol) of course due to being earlier vintage systems. The upgradation and missile numbers pucrhase is ineffective as compared to say a new purchase of S-400 system with some capability bought of S-500 Especially as 300 we have is sureshot pre 1998 bought implying almost 20 years of life used up for missiles and implying very fag end of shelf life

That sums up nothing. However we will go off topic beyond this point. We will take it up later. I am sure @Capt.Popeye will join