India Aircraft Tech Proposal May Be Hard To Enforce, Ministry Says

[con]

Its not just Arabs giving bad reputation to the aircraft. The aircraft itself (all of them other than Mig-35 and sufficiently upgraded Mig-29s, which still have to prove themselves) came out to be inferior in all the air to air engagements.

Ever heard of Mig-15s reputation in the korean war? or in the vietnam until the Americans were forced to introduce the popular "Top Gun" course to train their pilots harder?

Where Russians failed in to introduce better weapons on these aircrafts,when they supplied to their client states.

Then of course the pilot training has come into play where Pakistan Air Force has blasted off Soviet and Indian Su and MiG series of fighters.

Haven't IAF Migs ever shot down a PAF aircraft?
If that was the case IAF would never have hundreds of Migs in their inventory.
Most of the Indian SU were downed by ground fire than air action.
And also the largest lose of IAF Migs were on ground,not in air action.

The Soviets in Afghanistan did not even deploy their best weapons. Would PAF even dare to fight with the Soviets in Afghanistan if they had deployed BVR capable Mig-23?

So what reputation are we talking about?

 

[solid snake]

An interesting observation.

Could you please elaborate?

One would like to think that, amongst other factors, it is the pilot's expertise that accounts for the efficiency of the machine.

Ask the Arabs who got their *** kicked by Israel's superior American planes.

 

[EagleEyes]

Yeah, its surprising how the planes remain on either ground or get shot down by SAMs. My point here is that western planes, and their pilots have always taken an edge in the air supremecy, while the soviet planes and its users have always suffered from inferior technology (missiles, avionics, support), training, and so on.

Now again Soviets didn't come off with their BVRs to fight off PAF. I wonder who was stopping them? Getting their planes blown up in the skies didn't lead them to equip their fighters with better missiles. Interesting. By the way, what exact BVR missile are we talking about here? Lets not change the history of what you could possibly do. Give the credit where it is due.

I do feel biased when naming all the MiGs but they all failed to impress in the air battle.

 

[su-47]

Remind you that MiG has the reputation of being blasted off the skies!

That reputation is there coz of inept syrian and lebanese pilots who got shot out of the sky by the israelis.The Indian Air Force has used migs well.

But i'd like to remind that MiGs have higher crash rates, lower combat readiness, more maintenance problems and lower sortie rates than western aircraft like jaguars and mirage 2000s. Also, some migs have short service life due to serious spares problems. The IAF operated the MiG-23 for only about 20 yrears before being forced to retire them.

I think India should choose Rafale for a few reasons

1) India's original plan was to get Mirage 2000s before the production line closed down and france offered rafale. The Rafale, as a replacement for Mirage 2000, would definitely have all its pros, and would be much more high tech.

2) Dassault agreed to integrate kaveri Engine on Rafale once that engine is ready.

3) Not a lot of pressure will be put on India's logistics and infrastructure if rafale is chosen, since india already operates mirage 2000.

4) Rafale will be the France's frontline fighter for some time to come, and thus will receive a lot of upgrades, unlike F-16 (which will be retired soon) and Mig-35 (which the russian airforce is not choosing)

5) Rafale is also a carrier borne aircraft. If IAF chooses it, IN can also choose it (though this is very unlikely)

The problem is the cost and the degree of ToT France is ready to give. If France agrees full ToT, then Rafale would be the best choice.

Personally, i dont think MiG-35 is such a good idea. It might have problems that have plagued all MiG series. it wont receive regular updates coz its not Russias frontline fighter. Also, IAF operates so many Russian aircraft and choosing MiG-35 will make IAF nearly completely dependant on one supplier, so they can put pressure on india if at anytime India is at odds with Russia.

 

[BATMAN]

Lets just compare PAF F-16 with that of IAF Mig-21 Bison.
Mig-21 is BVR enabled,while PAF F-16 are not.

What do you think would the result if they meet? Wouldn't there be a very high chance that a Mig-21 will down a F-16?

Now would you consider Mig-21 are better than F-16?

In Afghan war Pakistani F-16 'blew out of sky' around 10 Russian migs, without loosing a single F-16 to enemy.
Those downed migs were flown by pilots better than IAF. This is a strong indicator, what will happen if Indian mig face Pakistani F-16.
In Kargil war IAF pilots lost few migs without facing F-16.
I'm sure SAM's can blew your BVR enabled migs out of sky, any time.

 

[IceCold]

Isnt the AMRAAM 120c a BVR missle and also the SD-10. What the hell are we comparing here? Forget the past con now if migs face the F-16s they will indeed be blown out of skies before they even see the F-16s on their radars. Its not easy for an aircraft and that too of a 3rd generation to enter a hostle enviroment where they will not only be challenge by the PAF but also by SAMS and besides when PAF jets wouldnt be using their own radars since they would be under the umbrella of the AWACS so no radar siginature. Think about your chances about penitrating pakistan skies.