IDN TAKE: Ordanance Factory Board's Dhanush: The POWERFUL Indigenous Howitzer

[Red bull]

There are
1. Dhanush 155/45
And 2. Dhanush 155/52 guns from OFB

And
ATAGS by DRDO along with TATA and L&T the main partner.

114 Dhanush 155/45 guns + 300 Dhanush 155/52 guns will be procured.

ATAGS will have a separate production line either with OFB or with a JV of TATA and L&T.

Was stating the same.


In Towed Artillery section , the plans for new procurement are
1. 114 Dhanush 155/45
2. 300 Dhanush 155/52 by OFB
3. 645< M777
4. 1000< ATAGS
5. 1000< Foreign Towed gun either from Israel or France.
6.Unspecified number of 105mm ultra light field guns.

I doubt the future of M777. It's in limbo with latest reports on it. The picture may get clear after DM returns from US but I don't think it will materialize. Even if it does the number will be limited with in 150 pieces.

M777 is 155/39. OFB should try making cheaper and same caliber howitzer with same or less weight of M777. Mountain strike corps is not raised yet so we have time. A 155/45 dhanush costs $2 million a piece and 155/39 M777 costs $5.1 million a piece.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

I doubt the future of M777. It's in limbo with latest reports on it. The picture may get clear after DM returns from US but I don't think it will materialize. Even if it does the number will be limited with in 150 pieces.

M777 is 155/39. OFB should try making cheaper and same caliber howitzer with same or less weight of M777. Mountain strike corps is not raised yet so we have time. A 155/45 dhanush costs $2 million a piece and 155/39 M777 costs $5.1 million a piece.

I am quoting the figure 645 from 2 sources , 1 was about a MoD source telling that India could order upto 500 additional guns if , a substantial investment by the concerned company is made. And the second about the retired army personal remark in a news paper for the deal that the requirements are more than twice the present orders. Both the incidents can be looked up in Google , with a little pain as few had reported it.

Myself , I would personally prefer a Indian product any day...

 

[Red bull]

@Water Car Engineer

ATAGS is an advanced OFB Dhanush according to the defence expert author of this article.

I was going through the ATAGS part of the article. I found - "This 'parallel programme' OFB has undertaken on it's own and will 'COMPETE' with te ATAGS..."
So the author is not saying that both are same. He couldn't frame it properly. The sentence "ATAGS is the highly advanced version of Dhanush" The author may saying that it's highly advanced than Dhanush version 2 which is 155/52 IMO. I just picked up when I saw the word 'compete'. If the author mean ATAGS and Dhanush v2 both are same then how a product can compete with itself ? Moreover, if the programmes are same then why the term 'PARALLEL PROGRAMME' ?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

I was going through the ATAGS part of the article. I found - "This 'parallel programme' OFB has undertaken on it's own and will 'COMPETE' with te ATAGS..."
So the author is not saying that both are same. He couldn't frame it properly. The sentence "ATAGS is the highly advanced version of Dhanush" The author may saying that it's highly advanced than Dhanush version 2 which is 155/52 IMO. I just picked up when I saw the word 'compete'. If the author mean ATAGS and Dhanush v2 both are same then how a product can compete with itself ? Moreover, if the programmes are same then why the term 'PARALLEL PROGRAMME' ?

Maybe , maybe not. I pointed it out as a lot of portals have done the same.

 

[Red bull]

Maybe , maybe not. I pointed it out as a lot of portals have done the same.

Can you send me the link of those portals ?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Can you send me the link of those portals ?

From the diplomat to TOI... just search for articles on OFB45 or DRDO 155mm gun between 2013-15.

 

[Red bull]

From the diplomat to TOI... just search for articles on OFB45 or DRDO 155mm gun between 2013-15.

Well media is known for its propaganda or half literate knowledge. Be it misinformation on Excalibur rifle or 7.62x51 which is originally an RFI for amphibious rifles and not for entire troops or to replace INSAS1B1/2. I must say indian media are having a tough time.
Thanks my friend.

 

[MilSpec]

One thing is for sure to be understood. Its Army and MoD backing together the ATAGS project as it has no linkages with Bofors and is an entirely new system built from scratch by a joint collaboration between PSU and Private sector. And this gun will be Next Generation in true sense , cutting down weight , increasing mobility , very high sustained rate of fire and is to be the back bone of Indian Army for decades to come. But the first gun delivery to Army is at least 2-3 years away. @Water Car Engineer

This is where the upgunned Bofors by GCF comes into play.One more thing is to be understood is that once present 45caliber gun is upgraded to 52 successfully, it will make no sense for Army to keep procuring 45 caliber guns. And by the time full 400+ Dhanush guns are delivered , the production of ATAGS will be in full swing.

So deleting either of two will hurt only the Army. The OFB Dhanush 52 is ultimately a modernised Bofors, ATAGS is altogether a different beast.

Coming to the foreign line , Nexter and Soltam both have conducted rigorous successful trials here and are positive about the tender.
I would personally here want our MOD to either go for a duplicate line of ATAGS or give Kalyanis Bharat 52 a chance.

@PARIKRAMA @anant_s @Abingdonboy @MilSpec @hellfire

It's already being done, A big no to bharat 52, If i recall correctly kalyanis and TATA Pow SED will get a stake in ATAGS.

Correction: Don't recall if it's Kalyani, might be L&T and Tata Pow Sed

 

[R!CK]

It's already being done, A big no to bharat 52, If i recall correctly kalyanis and TATA Pow SED will get a stake in ATAGS.

Correction: Don't recall if it's Kalyani, might be L&T and Tata Pow Sed

"The development trajectory of ATAGS aims at establishing indigenous critical defence manufacturing technologies with the active participation of ordnance factories, DPSUs and private industries, including Bharat Forge Limited, Tata Power Strategic Engineering Division and Mahindra Defence Naval System, to meet the aspiration of 'Make in India' initiative in defence sector, the statement said. "

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...l-by-early-2017-drdo/articleshow/53214335.cms

Good day!

 

[MilSpec]

Now look at that, it will be a nice private sector kichdi....Great start though.

"The development trajectory of ATAGS aims at establishing indigenous critical defence manufacturing technologies with the active participation of ordnance factories, DPSUs and private industries, including Bharat Forge Limited, Tata Power Strategic Engineering Division and Mahindra Defence Naval System, to meet the aspiration of 'Make in India' initiative in defence sector, the statement said. "

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...l-by-early-2017-drdo/articleshow/53214335.cms

Good day!

 

[Skull and Bones]

Wow! With all that firepower against an enemy, it would be like smashing an egg shell with a sledgehammer!

There goes my hope of making an omelette.

 

[4GTejasBVR]

This may be off topic. As far as my understanding. Today Indian small arms industries already produced AK 47 ripoff and many other variety of hand guns and machine guns. And quite recently we can see large arms industries like bharat forge already have working model for howitzers. Ranging from 105 mm field artillery to 155/52 Heavy artillery.

My doubt is that why the he'll we should not take some interest on these companies and use our diplomatic clout to get export orders for them. From countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, African, Latin and Asian countries like Vietnamese etc? This will not only improve our defence trade deficit but also shuttle our R&D for more well refined products for our Indian Armed forces.

For example I belive India should be able to make some 100 million use or more military assistance fund to the Afghan armed forces. All these money could be spent on our home grown defence companies. I mean what could be the best way to test weapon systems than fielding it in real war time scenario!!! Chinese always did this. First they make their requirements tabled.Then they fund R&D with a private or public sector. As soon as the product is just below expectation. Just induct it in large numbers. Mean while with confidence their military shown on this particular weapon system they offer it to country which face financial crisis. They make it more attractive by offering with soft loans I return they get their nation's good will. Finally they improve these weapons systems capabilities with lots of profits from the buyers and full fill their requirements. Once it's done Name it as Mk2 or next gen etc. Sell it for same buyer for more bucks...

This is the design for all developing countries with large Armed forces relaying on imports.

Local partner ship with those countries will help us gain more knowledge and real-time data for improved variants. Why should Bharat Forge guns should be ideal without any orders. We have Afghanistan asking for military assistance. It's time we spread our defence expertise spread across the country untapped. It's a crime we don't do it now.

As we in India know it than anyone else. We know there are someone poorer than you. And they wish they had something similar to what you have but not satisfied with it

 

[punit]

if ATGS IS ready why make Dhanush and if Dhanush is all that capable why bother about ATGS !! Two paralle program is waste of energy and resources.

 

[A_Poster]

In Towed Artillery section , the plans for new procurement are
1. 114 Dhanush 155/45
2. 300 Dhanush 155/52 by OFB
3. 645< M777
4. 1000< ATAGS
5. 1000< Foreign Towed gun either from Israel or France.
6.Unspecified number of 105mm ultra light field guns.

I do not think there would be any Dhanush 155/52. It order would/should be split between ATAGS and 155/32 as it is the most economical and logical thing to do.

 

[R!CK]

if ATGS IS ready why make Dhanush and if Dhanush is all that capable why bother about ATGS !! Two paralle program is waste of energy and resources.

Competition creates efficiency.

400 guns from OFB might take 10 years with their current production targets. While private firms like Bharat Forge is promising a rate of 100 guns a year.

Do we continue the same mistake of putting all our eggs in OFBs basket? My intention is not to make OFB look bad, we know the public sector approach. If you don't, fly AirIndia instead of maybe Indigo. Not the best comparison, but hope you get my point.

Good Day!