IAF bans beards for muslims

[blain2]

No, because Sikhism is quite clear on the beard and turban - it is compulsory for all Sikhs, and there are no multiple viewpoints on this issue. Infact, it was recently declared that Sikhs who shave their hair were to be excommunicated.



Well it depends on the culture of the armed forces - a "mullah beard" would definitely be unacceptable because its basically flaunting your religion - which is not conducive to the cohesion of the armed forces.

The Sikh beard on the other hand doesn't send such signals.

In Pakistan perhaps such a beard would be interpreted differently, because soldiers are expected to be good muslims also.

Flint,

I can assure you that just as Guru Gobind Sing ordained beard for the Sikh men, the Prophet of Islam also told the Muslims to grow their beards and trim their mustaches. The problem here is that you are making an exception for the Sikhs but disallowing it for another group.

Also contrary to what you are stating here, the issue is not one of keeping a long or "mullah" beard as you term it. It is one of not allowing a beard at all for the Muslim personnel.

challenged the validity of the IAF’s instructions, dated February 24 and April 1, 2003, prohibiting Muslim personnel from growing a beard.

If the beard is kept properly and trimmed appropriately, its no problem. The point about Sikh beard not sending any signals while the Muslim one sending is pretty nonsensical. For a non-Sikh, it looks like a statement because a Sikh has been allowed to "flaunt" his religion while none of the rest can follow suit even if it means that an existing extension in the dress code (Sikh beard) is not being extended to them.

In the end its for IAF to decide, however the ruling where a beard is ok for the Sikhs but not for Muslims is pretty illogical.

 

[blain2]

Dear Blain,

can I tell you funny incident in Gwadar ?

I was deputed to work with your toughest there. You know whom i mean. We worked with a swedish (re-breather guess thats a hint enough) diving set. All your toughies use to finish their sets endurances initially within 90 minutes while goras ( i learnt the meaning there) like me use to take 120 - 140 minutes before we came on the reserve. After some delicate negotiations we got them all to have a clean shave just before a real Ops and they all agreed as long as they could get a chance to destroy an Indian ship. Then they started beating us hands down by 20 minutes on the reserve as they preferred hypoxia / CO2 poisoning then giving up.

You can check these facts. I use to work in Lidingo many years ago where three of your officers came for training.

Regards

I believe you are referring to the SSG/N boys here and their beards getting in the way, but my point stands. Where the clothing, facial hair get in the way of getting the job done, we are practical enough. We did the same for pilots assigned to combat squadrons and also for troops who are in the Special Forces during induction training.

During the entire month of Ramazan, its optional for troops and even pilots to fast. Most don't fast in the SF during their training as it takes a toll and they need the caloric intake. I suspect if the IAF do not budge, then the gentlemen will make do. However if IAF accommodates then its great. I do not think the gents are combat pilots or their beards are getting in the way of the job. I think its a regulations issue.

 

[Captain03]

I will ask you very kindly read my that post very carefully again and look for word "Baptized".

they were baptized
they also told me sikhism is a way of life not religion

 

[blain2]

Dear Blain,

i am not stretching any point including the beard. That Indian guy did not want to trim his beard and got sacked and we all know why !

If the Zarars did not mind shaving their beards for a longer endurance after they left the Maiale (another hint BTW they were commanded to) then I think all armed forces can decide what is best for them.

Regards

Ps : Livorno strike a chord in your memory?

No Livorno does not. Are you referring to SSG/N or Army walas?

 

[notsuperstitious]

Flint,

In the end its for IAF to decide, however the ruling where a beard is ok for the Sikhs but not for Muslims is pretty illogical.

No! the ruling is not that sikhs can and Muslims can not, thats a strawman.

the ruling is that if something is farz, then its allowed, something is encouraged, then it can be restricted. for obvious reasons military men in unform have to look uniform, hence even hindu brahmins are NOT allowed to grow they hair, as its not farz. growing hair for baptized sikhs (the 5 Ks) is a must, infact cutting it EVER is forbidden, its synomymous with being a sikh. they also required to wear a turban. mulsims and jews also not allowed to wear skullcaps, or hindus tika on their forehead when on duty. its not forbidden for muslims to cut their beards, unless under taliban. fortunately, india or any parts of it are not taliban.

 

[blain2]

No! the ruling is not that sikhs can and Muslims can not, thats a strawman.

the ruling is that if something is farz, then its allowed, something is encouraged, then it can be restricted. for obvious reasons military men in unform have to look uniform, hence even hindu brahmins are NOT allowed to grow they hair, as its not farz. growing hair for baptized sikhs (the 5 Ks) is a must, infact cutting it EVER is forbidden, its synomymous with being a sikh. they also required to wear a turban. mulsims and jews also not allowed to wear skullcaps, or hindus tika on their forehead when on duty. its not forbidden for muslims to cut their beards, unless under taliban. fortunately, india or any parts of it are not taliban.

Ok valid enough. While I do have issues with the overall logic, I think I am ok with it being looked at in this manner by the IAF.

By the way I like the pun intended in Fateh71.

 

[Always Neutral]

No Livorno does not. Are you referring to SSG/N or Army walas?

Dear Blain,

I have given u the M word. Please ask any source in Z Coy. about Livorno, Pisa airport and a bar where the got halal meat courtsey Italian Govt.

Regards

Ps : the three guys i met (officers) were the best and as good as I have seen anywhere. Take it is a compliment.

 

[Always Neutral]

No Livorno does not. Are you referring to SSG/N or Army walas?

I am not sure what u mean by WALAS ? Is that a surname ? I can't remember anyone called Lt./Lcdr/Cdr Walas.

I will not put their names down here because its not proper, BUT U MUST BE PROUD OF THEM. When they came they were so prim and proper and when they left they were LIONs. BTW both Indians and Pakistanis were training in our facility at the same time and I must say you all are v good guys when it comes to training but not drinking. I also noticed Indians drink more than pakistanis.

Regards

 

[blain2]

Dear Blain,

I have given u the M word. Please ask any source in Z Coy. about Livorno, Pisa airport and a bar where the got halal meat courtsey Italian Govt.

Regards

Ps : the three guys i met (officers) were the best and as good as I have seen anywhere. Take it is a compliment.

Ok thanks for the clarification on the M word. The line of work you are hinting at now makes sense (or at least I think it does - I am assuming it has to be about the gents out of PNS Iqbal.

The halal meat from the bar connection, huh? Now that must be a story worth checking out. Will ask around and about.

 

[blain2]

I am not sure what u mean by WALAS ? Is that a surname ? I can't remember anyone called Lt./Lcdr/Cdr Walas.

I will not put their names down here because its not proper, BUT U MUST BE PROUD OF THEM. When they came they were so prim and proper and when they left they were LIONs. BTW both Indians and Pakistanis were training in our facility at the same time and I must say you all are v good guys when it comes to training but not drinking. I also noticed Indians drink more than pakistanis.

Regards

Never mind the walas and also do not put their names up please.

The good drinking guys do it behind closed doors

 

[Always Neutral]

Never mind the walas and also do not put their names up please.

The good drinking guys do it behind closed doors

I will never forget one incident. Both Indians and Pakistanis arrived at the same time in a part time Indian eating place and after glares they decided to be better friends and get rid of us Goras.

BTW another hint Cosmos SPA and Moriconi.

Makes sense now.

Regards

Ps Miss those times

 

[blain2]

BTW another hint Cosmos SPA and Moriconi.

Makes sense now.

Regards

Ps Miss those times

Yes I understood when you mentioned the M word . There is only one outfit working on that stuff in Pakistan. Good stories I will tell you one thing. Outside of Pakistan and India, Pakistani and Indian officers and troops are usually on the best of terms. I have run across certain situations and have also heard quite a few interesting episodes about how well folks have gotten along.

 

[supermalt]

Hi Guys

Just to calrifiy sikhs who have been baptised (taken amrit) have to keep beard by compulsary , they have take oath for life to keep kesh(keep long hair/ no removal of hair),

In addition to maination hair, they must were a kara(bangle), carry kanga(comb), were kacha(boxers), and carry kirpan(sword) at all time. They are also vegiterians. This is only compulsory if taken amrit.

Sikhs which have not been baptised do not have to maintin these by compulsory, as they have not taken oath.

Conclusion

Beards in sikhism is complusory in baptised sikhs(no hair removal allowed).

In non-baptised sikhs maintainace of beard is not compulsory but personal choice.

 

[AK-47]

Hi Guys

Just to calrifiy sikhs who have been baptised (taken amrit) have to keep beard by compulsary , they have take oath for life to keep kesh(keep long hair/ no removal of hair),

In addition to maination hair, they must were a kara(bangle), carry kanga(comb), were kacha(boxers), and carry kirpan(sword) at all time. They are also vegiterians. This is only compulsory if taken amrit.

Sikhs which have not been baptised do not have to maintin these by compulsory, as they have not taken oath.

Conclusion

Beards in sikhism is complusory in baptised sikhs(no hair removal allowed).

In non-baptised sikhs maintainace of beard is not compulsory but personal choice.

Thank you, that's what I am trying to explain here but some people just dont do diligence before posting

 

[roopesh]

This is again hindu india's zionist hinduist kautilyan diplomatic attempt to keep Muslims ..bla.... bla zionist hindus want to make the Muslims feel that they are discriminated because they are the minority.

IAF banned beards for everyone. Not just for muslims..its banned for hindus too..where hindu culture believes in beard.
So muslims need not be worried. and esply pak ppl can feel what ever they want against India. Think all the hindus are extremists...OK ...np....

Will PAKISTAN AIR FORCE ALLOW HINDUS TO WEAR DHOTI?