I am Punjabi

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Awell so are you saying that 65 percent of pakistani population is not punjabi?.

Forget those figures that you brought, the fact is 65 percent of pakistani population is punjabi and they are have a policy to sustain that so they always have an upper hand in the electoral system.

Caught in a lie so trying to get out of it by digressing eh ..

You claimed the "Punjabis were breeding out the other groups" (leave alone for now how racist that statement is, as if every Punjabi has some sort of mission to have more kids than any other ethnicity just so they can 'breed out other groups'), I just gave you facts pointing out that the growth rate and fertility rates of Punjab were lower.

Now about your question in your post here, it is another lie and distortion. Both the 1998 census and estimates by other organizations put the Punjabi population as far lower:

From the 1998 census, on the basis of mother tongue:

Punjabi: 44.15
Sindhi: 14.1
Pashto: 15.42
Seraiki: 10.53

On the basis of total provincial population regardless of 'mother tongue':

------- 1951-------1961 -----1972-----1981-----1998
Punjab: 60.87%---- 59.38%---57.58%---56.1%----55.6%

Population Census Organization, Government of Pakistan

So do let me know what his policy of 'breeding out other groups is', because if it exists beyond the perverted racist minds of people like you, then the Punjabis are doing a piss poor job of implementing it, given the above statistics that show a decreasing proportion of Punjabis relative to the total population of Pakistan.

So yes, you are wrong on every count.

 

[Durrani]

ok yar am an afghan does that make you happy?

but so is every pushtton of sarhad an afghan by race.QUOTE]

LOL !! I cant believe how ignorant you are. AFGHANS ARE NOT A RACE. AND PUSHTOONS ARE NOT AFGHANS BY DEFAULT. PUSHTOONS ARE SIMPLY PUSHTOONS !! I am a Pakistani Pushtoon and I think all Pakistani Pushtoons are proud of the fact that we are Pakistanis. Afghan Pushtoons are seperate and it is idiotic to think that all pushtoons and pushtoon lands belong to Afghanistan.

Infact, honestly I think that all Pushtoons and Pushtoon lands should belong to Pakistan because Pakistan is a more natural home to Pushtoons considering that we have a higher population here (25,000,000 as opposed to 15,000,000 in Afghanistan)

So enough with this nonsense of 'Pashtunistan' and 'Afghania'. We are Pakistanis and will always be. We are a part of this country's political, business and armed forces and play a major role in all aspects of shaping Pakistan. Infact, WE AS A RACE ARE BETTER REPRESENTED IN PAKISTAN THAN IN AFGHANISTAN. IN AFGHANISTAN PUSHTOONS ARE SECONDARY TO TAJIKS (WHO HAVE A BIGGER SAY IN THE COUNTRY'S POLITICS AND MILITARY)......

Long live our beloved Pakistan and we will fight for its survival to the bitter end because it is OUR HOMELAND.....

 

[Awaaz]

ok yar am an afghan does that make you happy?

but so is every pushtton of sarhad an afghan by race.QUOTE]

LOL !! I cant believe how ignorant you are. AFGHANS ARE NOT A RACE. AND PUSHTOONS ARE NOT AFGHANS BY DEFAULT. PUSHTOONS ARE SIMPLY PUSHTOONS !! I am a Pakistani Pushtoon and I think all Pakistani Pushtoons are proud of the fact that we are Pakistanis. Afghan Pushtoons are seperate and it is idiotic to think that all pushtoons and pushtoon lands belong to Afghanistan.

Infact, honestly I think that all Pushtoons and Pushtoon lands should belong to Pakistan because Pakistan is a more natural home to Pushtoons considering that we have a higher population here (25,000,000 as opposed to 15,000,000 in Afghanistan)

So enough with this nonsense of 'Pashtunistan' and 'Afghania'. We are Pakistanis and will always be. We are a part of this country's political, business and armed forces and play a major role in all aspects of shaping Pakistan. Infact, WE AS A RACE ARE BETTER REPRESENTED IN PAKISTAN THAN IN AFGHANISTAN. IN AFGHANISTAN PUSHTOONS ARE SECONDARY TO TAJIKS (WHO HAVE A BIGGER SAY IN THE COUNTRY'S POLITICS AND MILITARY)......

Long live our beloved Pakistan and we will fight for its survival to the bitter end because it is OUR HOMELAND.....

Well i agree with most of what you said but why the hell you defending this lot, they are racist towards, take us for second class citizens. They have spent most of the federal money developing their provinces.

If thats not second class then what is buddy?

These people take us as some ignorant uneducated hill billies, now natural resources are being found in baluchistan so their is attention being paid, well what happened to it for past 60 years?.

They are now even restricting us from being prideful of our culture, i mean there was a big argument here once, when people mentioned that name of nwfp should be changed to afghania. Many here argued thats not good for unity and blah blah.

Well there is punjab in india so why is it ok for punjabis to be linked with that regardless of history etc.

Well defend pakistan yes from dushmans but thats india and others and not some ordinary pushtoon across the border. All these problems of talibnisation were created by pakistan now its all turning nasty so who do we blame?

These people here make me laugh they talk about unity and protecting soverignty, well drones everyday are violating that. So where is one nation there? end game pushtoon blood cheap.

 

[Omar1984]

^

Calm down man...no one is telling anyone not to be proud of their culture and language. I enjoy learning about Pakhtun culture and enjoy listening to Pashto music, especially by Rahim Shah and Zeek Afridi, even though I dont understand Pashto.

I'm Punjabi Pakistani and I see no link between me and Indian Punjabis soo I dont know what link you are talking about. I feel more closer to a Pakhtun, Kashmiri, Baloch, Sindhi than an Indian Punjabi. And by the way, the border between Pakistan's Punjab and India's Punjab has been very secure ever since the independence of Pakistan many Punjabi Pakistanis still haven't forgiven Hindu and Sikh Punjabis for killing and raping Muslim Punjabis during partition.

The border between Afghanistan and Pakistan was always an imaginery line...it was never really secure because through many decades the threat was to our east never through our west. FATA was never in control of Pakistan either, the people of FATA always had full control over their land. In 1947, there was an understanding that's it, Pakistan never had full control over FATA.

As for NWFP, I've seen pictures and I have friends from Abbottabad and Peshawar, those cities look more developed than Faisalabad or Sialkot. Come to cities like Gujranwala in Punjab...you would think Abbottabad is London compared to Gujranwala.

 

[Awesome]

Well wether it was sarcasm or not. i stand by what i said and strong belive that they are breeding other groups out.

They been sitting comfy at home and watching pussoon and balochs blood spill by collaborating with external elements.

These were the people who ran to join the british army and collaborated to supress others and offered their women to the british etc (Look at hera mandi still exists).

Now pushtoon domination is coming and together with balochs we will be invincible people of superior race culture and history cannot be defeated by people of dirty indian heritage.

Now violence has even reached lahore let them feel pain like we felt for years.

Dude Punjabis don't sit and conspire to kill Pashtoons. We don't even have a Punjabi government in place, still the war is going on over in your areas right? You're speaking like an enemy of Pakistan, not an enemy of Punjab.

Pakistan is a country which has been led by Pashtoons before too. If you're against the Army, the first Military dictator of Pakistan was a Pashtoon, Ayub Khan, who is well respected by the Pakistani army.

True Pashtoons would aspire towards the economic, social and educational rise of their people and not aspire to see violence in Lahore.

 

[Awesome]

Well i agree with most of what you said but why the hell you defending this lot, they are racist towards, take us for second class citizens. They have spent most of the federal money developing their provinces.

It has nothing to do with the fact that populations of Lahore, Rawalpindi,Sialkot, Faisalabad, have adopted a much more modern lifestyle than the Pashtoons? Pashtoons love to keep their tribal culture alive, which inherently impedes progress, education, a higher standard of living.

What percentage of spending do you know of? Punjab hosts 60+ % of the population, does it take more than that away for its own development?

If thats not second class then what is buddy?

Tell me what super project do you need the money for? I'm sure if its a good idea, everyone over here would fall in support of progress.

These people take us as some ignorant uneducated hill billies, now natural resources are being found in baluchistan so their is attention being paid, well what happened to it for past 60 years?.

There is no denying that the Pashtoon population is one of our lowest educated folks. But that does not mean we take Pashtoons to be of lesser worth than anyone else in Pakistan. In fact raising Pashtoon literacy should be a priority. No one denies it.

Natural resources, no matter where in Pakistan belongs to the federation. The same law applies everywhere in Pakistan.

They are now even restricting us from being prideful of our culture, i mean there was a big argument here once, when people mentioned that name of nwfp should be changed to afghania. Many here argued thats not good for unity and blah blah.

Yeah because Pashtoons are not Afghans, so why Afghania? Did you see the same resistence to Pakhtoonkhwa, or Khyber? Do you want to be known as Pashtoons or Afghans, which are a mix of Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, so on. It would be technically incorrect too.

Well there is punjab in india so why is it ok for punjabis to be linked with that regardless of history etc.

Actually there no longer is, and we don't strive to be associated with the Punjabis of India.

Well defend pakistan yes from dushmans but thats india and others and not some ordinary pushtoon across the border. All these problems of talibnisation were created by pakistan now its all turning nasty so who do we blame?

Yes the blame falls on Pakistan, but now what? Now we wait till everyone of us are suicide bombed? Correct me if I'm wrong, these Talibunnies have killed more Pashtoon civilians in Pakistan than Punjabis right?

These people here make me laugh they talk about unity and protecting soverignty, well drones everyday are violating that. So where is one nation there? end game pushtoon blood cheap.

The only person calling Pashtoon blood, cheap, is you.

Please end your racism and learn the meaning of PAKISTANI. You're not the only one who has had somehting unfair done to them in Pakistan. 90% of the Punjabis aren't so happy about something or the other too. There are economic, problems in Pakistan its a third world country. Things are not going to be all rosy. You should not cry about it, but be a man and join the damn nation into fixing these problems.

Koi bhi racist k moonh lagna pasand nahi karta.

 

[DarkStar]

Some very valid points. However, I do not agree that keeping tribal customs alive is an impediment to education and development.

When this tribal identity is lost, as the TAliban are trying to by assasinating Elders and Maliks, there will be chaos in the North West.

People claim about Punjabis controlling everything. Punjab is the only province where the local language is not taught in schools. In other provinces, learning Sindhi, Pashto, etc is a requirement.

Even though they are the majority population wise, they have not forced their language down everyone's throat. How would the other provinces feel if the national language was changed to Punjabi? After all, it would not be such an unfair and unreasonable thing?

Punjabis are castigated, even though the major leaders of our past have been Pashtuns, Sindhis, Urdu Speakers yet only a handful of PUnjabis.

People from other provinces see punjabis come, and build roads, fix electricity cables, put up mobile phone towers, control the traffic. Yet instead of teachign their children to aspire to study and work hard, the punjabis are bad mouthed.

The recent strides in the northern areas by the Agha Khan has led to a veritable educational rennaissance, and Agha Khanis from Gilgit, etc have joined the civil services in droves recently. They are not Punjabis, but have availed of the opportunities available to everyone through education and effort.

This forum is full of patroitic Pashtuns, including at least one Adminstrator, myself and many other members. We are, however, Pakistani Muslims, first and foremost. God created nations and tribes so that we may know each other, not despise each other.

 

[z9-ec]

Wow, I'm speechless at this circus. People, have missed the sarcasm and irony in this thread.

Saad's point was:

Why do we keep on differentiating between superficial boundaries?

Unity, Faith and Discipline. If only we had followed Mr. Jinnah's vision and his ideals.

I'm not a Sindhi, Punjabi, Balochi, Pathan, Pushtun or any other.

I'm a proud Pakistani from the land of the pure.

During Gen. Musharraf's tenure we saw such ideals being implemented based on equality. BTW, saad referred this to Sharif bros and co.

 

[DarkStar]

the debate has gone futher than what saad posted. We understand that the article was sarcasm.

 

[DarkStar]

This guy is not a Pakistani, nor an AFghani... He is a Bharati...pretending to be a Pakistani, otherwise he would not have confused the word Afghania with Pakhtoonkhwa. Afghania is a term that was used before partition, while the recent names put forword as alternatives to nwfp were Pakhtoonkhawa, pakhtoonistan, khyber, etc, and not AFghania.

It beggars believe that a pakistani or afghani is not aware of the nature of this debate, so he must be a Bharatia.

He is definitely a liar, because he gives his location and country flag as Pakistan, while sitting in good old Ireland?

Is that a pint of guiness I see next to that keyboard of yours?

 

[Durrani]

Natural resources, no matter where in Pakistan belongs to the federation. The same law applies everywhere in Pakistan.

Yes but I think our union would become more perfect if the system of using resources for the sake of economic development be passed onto the provinces, because when local resources do not benefit the local people first then it creates a system of frustration and exacerbation among the locals (case in point: Balochistan and Sindh)

And the whole system becomes even worse when you have a geography like pakistan's where provincial boundaries are perfectly divided into ethnic communities. This whole Punjab vs Balochistan/Sindh/NWFP has been created because of this sytem. Pakistan should be a DECENTRALISED country where the provinces are responsible for everything EXCEPT defence, curreny and foreign-policy.

Wherever you look at around the world resources are not spread among the general population, instead the first to benefit from them are locals. For example, here in Canada the oil and gas reserves are located in Alberta (Western Canada). Since the boom in oil prices starting in 2003, the Albertans have been the only ones in Canada that have benefited from the oil reserves (royalties, employment, infrastructure development).....

 

[Durrani]

^^ Kinda off topic I know

 

[RabzonKhan]

The only time Pakistan can start to progress when people still acknowledge their ethnicity, yet are not biased due to it.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[roadrunner]

Truely a disgusting thinking on anyone's end who thinks that he is punjabi and not pakistani.....should be hanged...

Umm, that's a little extreme.

 

[roadrunner]

I don't like the insinuations implied here. Punjabis aren't protesting for a Punjabi or against a Sindhi. The Pakistanis of Punjab had voted for a person and he has been forcibly removed from his position. This elected official had even done a good job in the few months as CM.

When you're disregarding the wishes of 65% of Pakistanis, it is you who are acting against the federation, not the Pakistanis of Punjab, the Punjabis. This is a real poor show in my opinion...

If a provincial assembly session is held today to vote for the CM, the PML-Q forward block and the PML-N party would clinch the seats away again. PPP has given this BS excuse to buy sometime with this 2 months extension. They are going to try their best to bribe their way out of this problem in this time.

Not all Punjabis who are supporting NS are some NS fans. But you got to go against the people who are in the wrong. If you have any doubts, let Punjab vote, you'll get your answer.

There is a fair amount of tribalism in the Pakistani vote process. But this is fairly normal in any democratic country, I think. People like Arnold Schwarzengger overcome this through their fame. Obama overcame it, but i have the feeling had their have been an opposition that wasn't a cripple, the white guy would have got the seat. People know the American process anyway, and the leader is not the guy who makes the important decisions.

I think a nice way for democracy to exist in Pakistan is to give each province an equal proportion of the vote.

Have a 1 person-1 vote process, but then standardize all the votes so that each province contributes an equal vote.

Perhaps to make things interesting, each province is allowed only one candidate from their ethnic group, but noone can vote for their own candidate. Everyone has to vote for the other provincial candidates, and the one with the most votes wins. That should be the fairest guy, since he.she should accumulate the most votes.