HOW TRUMP UNLEASHED MEDITERRANEAN ARSENAL ON ASSAD

[jhungary]

Although it looks like a Tomahawk launch, the man in the video says "Ballistic missile fired".

That's why I said SAMs can't bring down BMs like it did in the video.



The S-400's response time from stopping the vehicle to firing an interceptor is just 5 minutes.
A fully deployed S-400's response time from detecting the target to firing an interceptor is 10 seconds. Meaning, the entire process from Stage 1 to Stage 5 is 10 seconds. Yes, 10 seconds.

Against certain targets, there is no man in the loop. Against some targets, there is. In fact, for the S-400, the man in the loop is an option. You actually don't need it.

Here's one exercise with the very old S-300V. This system requires a man in the loop.
http://army-news.ru/2010/10/kompleks-s300-vpervye-porazil/
" The density of the strike reached six goals in a minute, and all two minutes of battle, destroyed 14 target missiles - unique perspective of air attack potential enemy," - said the general.

With the S-400, all the men in the unit can be dead and the SAM can still continue to function. This is among the reasons why both India and China want the Russian SAMs even though both countries have alternative systems deployed.

In fact our Defence Minister specifically asked the IAF to reduce the purchase of SR and MR SAMs because of the superiority of the S-400. He called for a review of all SAM purchases up to 2027.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...saved-rs-49300-crore/articleshow/51366381.cms
Sources told ET that the revaluation conducted by the air force concluded that with the S400 acquisition, the long term acquisition plan for over 100 each Medium and Short range systems have been cut down. "The study found that we will require a much lesser number of the shorter range systems. Minister Parrikar convinced the air force that according to its layered defence plan, the long range system (S 400) would make the larger number of MR SAM and SR SAM redundant," a top official told ET.

The Russians want to automate their entire army. Remove the man in the loop as much as possible.

First of all, they said Ballistic Missile because they want it to be more dramatic, again, this is not a true representation on what is actually going to happen

You are missing the point.

You cannot be automate to be conduct the whole firing sequence, even US Navy are highly automated, they still need to do a lot of manual calculation and from the reaction time. As I said, I am not talking about ready firing sequence, which is as a whole stage 5, you still need to verify the missile type and status, and that you cannot do with computer.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

ok if it satisfy ur ego.........



The objective of the attacks was to make sure that syrian regime is unable to carry out to chemical attacks again according to US

The objective of the attack was to make Syria think about the consequences
of performing attacks using Chemical Weapons.
It is called "conditioning".

 

[randomradio]

You cannot be automate to be conduct the whole firing sequence, even US Navy are highly automated, they still need to do a lot of manual calculation and from the reaction time. As I said, I am not talking about ready firing sequence, which is as a whole stage 5, you still need to verify the missile type and status, and that you cannot do with computer.

Dunno about the USN. As for the S-400, no, it is entirely automated. From start to finish, it is automated. What you think cannot be done in automatic mode is not a problem for the S-400.

Here's a passage about the operation: Google translated--
The expiration of fight runs off as follows: After the target acquisition by monitoring radars on stage the regiment or brigade a threat analysis is provided automatically and the target datas is determined. Afterwards the goals are passed on to the GRAVESTONE of fire control radar of the batteries. The fight algorithms of the SA-21 calculate automatically the optimal course for the guided weapon flight. If the radar echo of the air target is strong enough and if the goal is in the range of the guided weapon, a guided weapon start takes place. These run off processes fully automatic.

The only manual process is the command for firing, that's depending on the threat. The men are there only to ensure the proper functioning of the system.

Similarly, the S-500's response time is 3-4 seconds. That means, from the time a target is detected to the time of launch is less than 4 seconds.

Even with the S-300V, in that specific exercise, they finished the entire process from detection to interception in just 2 minutes. This system is old and is being replaced with the S-350. Regardless, it took them only two minutes to engage and destroy 6 short range ballistic targets.

 

[truthseeker2010]

The objective of the attack was to make Syria think about the consequences
of performing attacks using Chemical Weapons.
It is called "conditioning".

If thats the case, than its more of stupidity than power projection by US, bcoz if God forbids another chemical attack happens, who will be responsible?

 

[jhungary]

Dunno about the USN. As for the S-400, no, it is entirely automated. From start to finish, it is automated. What you think cannot be done in automatic mode is not a problem for the S-400.

Here's a passage about the operation: Google translated--
The expiration of fight runs off as follows: After the target acquisition by monitoring radars on stage the regiment or brigade a threat analysis is provided automatically and the target datas is determined. Afterwards the goals are passed on to the GRAVESTONE of fire control radar of the batteries. The fight algorithms of the SA-21 calculate automatically the optimal course for the guided weapon flight. If the radar echo of the air target is strong enough and if the goal is in the range of the guided weapon, a guided weapon start takes place. These run off processes fully automatic.

The only manual process is the command for firing, that's depending on the threat. The men are there only to ensure the proper functioning of the system.

Similarly, the S-500's response time is 3-4 seconds. That means, from the time a target is detected to the time of launch is less than 4 seconds.

Even with the S-300V, in that specific exercise, they finished the entire process from detection to interception in just 2 minutes. This system is old and is being replaced with the S-350. Regardless, it took them only two minutes to engage and destroy 6 short range ballistic targets.

Dude.......

It can never be "Automated" by automate, you mean the missile system can read the target and know what it is without any human input, that would mean a compilation of multi-dimension AI and a search database that have multiple dimension.

Judging by the passage, only Fire Control are automated. Let's look at the passage again

The expiration of fight runs off as follows: After the target acquisition by monitoring radars (Hence TA is not automated, but input manually) on stage the regiment or brigade a threat analysis is provided automatically and the target datas is determined. Afterwards the goals are passed on to the GRAVESTONE of fire control radar of the batteries. The fight algorithms of the SA-21 calculate automatically the optimal course (Denoted that the target solution is calculated automatically) for the guided weapon flight. If the radar echo of the air target is strong enough and if the goal is in the range of the guided weapon, a guided weapon start takes place. These run off processes fully automatic.

In the ISTAR Kill chain, all element between intelligence, surveillance, Target acquisition, and reconnaissance are not mentioned, only the targeting solution are automated.

AS I said before, what it said is only limited to stage 5. How does the target detected, located, verified? All these take time, and you cannot do them in automation.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If thats the case, than its more of stupidity than power projection by US, bcoz if God forbids another chemical attack happens, who will be responsible?

Each attack will have to be investigated on its own merits.
The UN has come to the conclusion that both Assad and ISIS have used Chemical Weapons.
The items pointing at Syria for this attack.

• It was an air attack
• Russia claimed the attack was made by Syrian Air Force
• Radar data matched sortie from the Syrian Air Force base attacked by TLAMs.
• Bomb hit a road, not a building with CW
• UAV monitored the rescue action, followed by an attack on the hospital.
• Syrian Army communication intercepted, discussing the CW attack before it happened.

 

[Penguin]

The S-400's response time from stopping the vehicle to firing an interceptor is just 5 minutes.
A fully deployed S-400's response time from detecting the target to firing an interceptor is 10 seconds. Meaning, the entire process from Stage 1 to Stage 5 is 10 seconds. Yes, 10 seconds.

5 minutes represents about 75 km of flight for a Tomahawk. 10 seconds is 0.25 km
1. IF THE SYSTEM IS 'ON' IN THE FIRST PLACE....
2. IF IT DETECTS THE TARGET IN THE FIRST PLACE...

 

[randomradio]

5 minutes represents about 75 km of flight for a Tomahawk. 10 seconds is 0.25 km
1. IF THE SYSTEM IS 'ON' IN THE FIRST PLACE....
2. IF IT DETECTS THE TARGET IN THE FIRST PLACE...

In our discussion, we have considered both conditions are met. That's why Stage 1 is Identifying the target.

Dude.......

It can never be "Automated" by automate, you mean the missile system can read the target and know what it is without any human input, that would mean a compilation of multi-dimension AI and a search database that have multiple dimension.

Judging by the passage, only Fire Control are automated. Let's look at the passage again

The expiration of fight runs off as follows: After the target acquisition by monitoring radars (Hence TA is not automated, but input manually) on stage the regiment or brigade a threat analysis is provided automatically and the target datas is determined. Afterwards the goals are passed on to the GRAVESTONE of fire control radar of the batteries. The fight algorithms of the SA-21 calculate automatically the optimal course (Denoted that the target solution is calculated automatically) for the guided weapon flight. If the radar echo of the air target is strong enough and if the goal is in the range of the guided weapon, a guided weapon start takes place. These run off processes fully automatic.

In the ISTAR Kill chain, all element between intelligence, surveillance, Target acquisition, and reconnaissance are not mentioned, only the targeting solution are automated.

AS I said before, what it said is only limited to stage 5. How does the target detected, located, verified? All these take time, and you cannot do them in automation.

Bro, target acquisition was automated long ago, decades ago.

Here's more about the S-400.
At the same time computer components can automatically determine the target data of 100 different airborne targets, in a speed range of 30-2'800 m/s. Each seized goal is classified and assigned to everyone automatically a fight priority.

And here's a snippet about Akash SAM.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/04/iaf-variant-of-indias-akash-sa.html
The hardware and software integration of various weapon system elements permits automated management of air defence functions such as programmable surveillance, target detection, target acquisition, tracking, identification, threat evaluation, prioritization, assignment and engagement.

Hell, they say it twice.

All air defence functions such as classification, threat evaluation, prioritization and missile launch are automated, by virtue of usage of state of the art computation platforms and softwares.

Here's another little snippet about Akash.
This feature also drastically reduces the requirement of manpower for operation of the system as the complete operations from target detection to engagement are hands free.

As I've said already, the entire process is automated. When they say "fully automatic", they literally mean "fully automatic", from start to finish.

The systems are design such that if you use anti-personnel WMDs like chemical weapons to kill the entire crew, the system will continue functioning automatically.

 

[Penguin]

In our discussion, we have considered both conditions are met. That's why Stage 1 is Identifying the target.

Two very big IFs

 

[randomradio]

Two very big IFs

It's just a discussion.

And it's already established that the S-300 and S-400 aren't located at the airbase anyway.

 

[Penguin]

It's just a discussion.
And it's already established that the S-300 and S-400 aren't located at the airbase anyway.

Given their missile range, they don't need to be on (or near) the airbase.

 

[randomradio]

Given their missile range, they don't need to be on (or near) the airbase.

SAM ranges can drop by 5-10 times depending on how low the cruise missile is. A 70Km range Barak-8 won't do more than 10-20Km against a terrain hugging Tomahawk.

 

[Penguin]

SAM ranges can drop by 5-10 times depending on how low the cruise missile is. A 70Km range Barak-8 won't do more than 10-20Km against a terrain hugging Tomahawk.

You do not have to explain that to me, thank you.

 

[jhungary]

In our discussion, we have considered both conditions are met. That's why Stage 1 is Identifying the target.



Bro, target acquisition was automated long ago, decades ago.

Here's more about the S-400.
At the same time computer components can automatically determine the target data of 100 different airborne targets, in a speed range of 30-2'800 m/s. Each seized goal is classified and assigned to everyone automatically a fight priority.

And here's a snippet about Akash SAM.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/04/iaf-variant-of-indias-akash-sa.html
The hardware and software integration of various weapon system elements permits automated management of air defence functions such as programmable surveillance, target detection, target acquisition, tracking, identification, threat evaluation, prioritization, assignment and engagement.

Hell, they say it twice.

All air defence functions such as classification, threat evaluation, prioritization and missile launch are automated, by virtue of usage of state of the art computation platforms and softwares.

Here's another little snippet about Akash.
This feature also drastically reduces the requirement of manpower for operation of the system as the complete operations from target detection to engagement are hands free.

As I've said already, the entire process is automated. When they say "fully automatic", they literally mean "fully automatic", from start to finish.

The systems are design such that if you use anti-personnel WMDs like chemical weapons to kill the entire crew, the system will continue functioning automatically.

I am not going to reply to you again, because all the stuff you quote is about target management, not the entire process. Entire process (kill chain) include C4ISR, not just target management.

You are of course free to think whatever you want. But I cannot be going on and on about the same thing when you just don't get it.

 

[randomradio]

I am not going to reply to you again, because all the stuff you quote is about target management, not the entire process. Entire process (kill chain) include C4ISR, not just target management.

You are of course free to think whatever you want. But I cannot be going on and on about the same thing when you just don't get it.

I know, we are only going in circles.

Now you've started talking about stuff that the S-400 is not designed for and not supposed to do.