How America is Destroying Pakistan

[Informant]

@Informant - firstly our indo- pak wars have always been two against one .when the two countries were formed both of them chose their sides , USA had to support our country for the same reason soviet union supported india . it was a part of an alliance deal - its what allies do .
so CIA countering communism was a neutral deed and when pakistan army helped in it - we created the talibaan?
Terrorist were some what better then the mujaheddin - as the mujaheddin had a lust for resources and riches - Taliban on the other hand had more of an ideological perspective and freed major cities of afghanistan from warlords -- according to me that's the reason they got our support - but clearly it was later until they changed their mind to introduce Shariat to its neighbors -
secondly we dont have proof of the bin laden issue ( dont panic-no one does ) we are just believing what our minds find suitable - though i find it really awkward that osama bin laden was killed on May 2, 2011 and on November 8 - it was the US general elections- which Obama won
not everyone supports the terrorists - we have people with mixed views - still that is no reason to bomb our soil -as a free nation if object to it , then it must not occur - it is basically an insult to our sovereignty . if you question the sovereignty then i have no words for that
i do not support terrorists man - your mind is moving too fast , calm down
just for once read articles written by americans holding our entire nation for 9/11 - we dont need an official statement , its more of the open your mind sort of thing.

i get your point on Pakistan being responsible its major destructive issues and we always had the options to back out and learn to stand on our own feet (which we did not) , but really dont waste your time on convincing me that USA is innocent.

When did i say US is innocent? US supports what benefits the US homeland. They dont care about their allies. It's US first and foremost. I did not insinuate you support terrorists, you dont need to be so defensive. I dont care what a few jaded journalists say, most Americans think Pakistan is Afghanistan, and they dont care about anything other than their existence. MOST. OBL was killed and found in our land, no denying it. His timing isnt suspicious, he was killed because it would benefit Obama's re election campaign. Bush did the same thing with Saddam. It's all politics.

The Mujahideens we supported are the ones blowing people up, our failed short sighted policies. There is a reason why military men make for the worst farsighted leaders and the best shortsighted ones. A military man goes with a certain routine, seedha pan. He has no grasp for real politics. We have suffered through Zia to Mushi ( to some extent, he was right most of the time. But when he fucked up, he fucked up big. Enough for him to leave the country). We have suffered from N leage to PPp to N league to PPP.

I wonder if we are going to get out of this circle?

 

[faeza]

When did i say US is innocent? US supports what benefits the US homeland. They dont care about their allies. It's US first and foremost. I did not insinuate you support terrorists, you dont need to be so defensive. I dont care what a few jaded journalists say, most Americans think Pakistan is Afghanistan, and they dont care about anything other than their existence. MOST. OBL was killed and found in our land, no denying it. His timing isnt suspicious, he was killed because it would benefit Obama's re election campaign. Bush did the same thing with Saddam. It's all politics.

The Mujahideens we supported are the ones blowing people up, our failed short sighted policies. There is a reason why military men make for the worst farsighted leaders and the best shortsighted ones. A military man goes with a certain routine, seedha pan. He has no grasp for real politics. We have suffered through Zia to Mushi ( to some extent, he was right most of the time. But when he fucked up, he fucked up big. Enough for him to leave the country). We have suffered from N leage to PPp to N league to PPP.

I wonder if we are going to get out of this circle?

i will ignore the army thing- but i dont disagree with the fact that the army has screwed up a bunch of things - not that much of a blind supporter
mujahidden rule was defeated by the talibaan they took over in 1996 - my point - their ruthless killings provoked the talibaan
i disagree with the fact that osama bin laden was found here (but your opinions to you , mine to me)

now i have a dinner to eat -
(alot of people might hate me after this thread )

 

[Informant]

i will ignore the army thing- but i dont disagree with the fact that the army has screwed up a bunch of things - not that much of a blind supporter
mujahidden rule was defeated by the talibaan they took over in 1996 - my point - their ruthless killings provoked the talibaan
i disagree with the fact that osama bin laden was found here (but your opinions to you , mine to me)

now i have a dinner to eat -
(alot of people might hate me after this thread )

No one will hate you, we have Zarvan for that. But you are naive and still a kid ( relatively). You will learn and realize, i do know you are an army kid so its even more fun to point out the army and you just conveniently ignoring it

 

[faeza]

No one will hate you, we have Zarvan for that. But you are naive and still a kid ( relatively). You will learn and realize, i do know you are an army kid so its even more fun to point out the army and you just conveniently ignoring it

i was joking and you know what they say ignorance is bliss ,
ofcourse , i have a lot to learn -everyone does.

 

[Informant]

i was joking and you know what they say ignorance is bliss ,
ofcourse , i have a lot to learn -everyone does.

True, but you need to be patient and observe. Age does mature you, and i was young once. Invincible, untouchable, broke , no care in the world. But time and tide changes a person.

You could've enjoyed the dinner. I'm not that special

 

[faeza]

True, but you need to be patient and observe. Age does mature you, and i was young once. Invincible, untouchable, broke , no care in the world. But time and tide changes a person.

You could've enjoyed the dinner. I'm not that special

ha! i had dinner - how long does it take one to finish their dinner? stop feeling special
- patience is one thing i dont get a hang of , thanks for your elderly advice though.

 

[Informant]

ha! i had dinner - how long does it take one to finish their dinner? stop feeling special
- patience is one thing i dont get a hang of , thanks for your elderly advice though.

Im not special, damn. Mean. It's not elderly advice, but time will mellow you out. And enjoy this time. Doesnt come back.

Peace.

 

[faeza]

Im not special, damn. Mean. It's not elderly advice, but time will mellow you out. And enjoy this time. Doesnt come back.

Peace.

elderly advice again - my bad i dont mean to be mean -it just happens
peace to you too.

 

[MastanKhan]

hello humans i am back!
Okay for starters we will take a look at drones – innocent people die , the families of affected people turn against drones and blame the government as they think it supports the US – not only killing of innocent people but a whole region is terrorized –
Then the f-16 deal paid $416 million – but when USA found out that Pakistani has nuclear weapons the deal was cancelled – some say the money was refunded and some say it wasn’t
A primary aim for USA has been is to de-nuclear-ize Pakistan as the Pressler amendment concluded at it would only provide financial aid if the country did not possess nuclear arm ( not a statement that should be coming from an ally )
They used Pakistan as a proxy for Afghanistan when the soviet left America abandoned Pakistan
The US portrays AL-AQEADA and the TALIBAAN as one , though there is a significant difference – Taliban was actually a resistance group of Afghanistan which earned it support from Pakistani officials when it came in power in Afghanistan in 1994 (it was later things changed) while AL QAEDA was a jihadi group founded by OBL and was responsible for 9/11
They hold us responsible for the 9/11 – with statements such as WITH FRIENDS LIKE PAKISTAN WHO NEEDS ENEMIES or FRIENDS WITHOUT BENEFITS
.

Hello Faeza,

Actually it was pakistan / Gen Zia that tricked the U S into the afghan russian war. The agency analysis was that it was just a local icursion---. Gen Zia riled up the issue thru a texan---who in turn riled up a texas congressman whose brother was killed in vietnam----.

Pakistani don't know about this, but this is a well known fact.

As for the F16 issue---that issue is also a myhth----pakistan knew beforehand that the sanctions were coming----yet it still paid up in advance for those aircraft. The bill for sanctions put forward in the house and prsented to Reagan multiple times----Reagan being a strong president---the bill got rejected---when Bush SR came into the white house---being a weaker president than Reagan---he did not have enough support and strength to deny the bill.

Nobody asked pakistan to keep on paying the money---. The first thing they should have done was to seek a court injunction---get attorneys involved and then stop payments---. They could have also sued the u s govt for defaulting and ask for the money back earlier.

PAF should have gone for the mirage 2000 after they had recieved the first 36 F16's----thus---they would not have been dependant on the americans.

As for WOT----pakistan should have fought its case better on the public forum thru the U S media. Also---once they saw the u s letting Osama escape at tora bora---pakistan should have become aware of a treachery building up and should have smashed and neutralized the al qaeda escaping from tora bora.

You as a nation had every chance of going on the TV and talking about the failures and the incompetence of the american military generals. You had so much ammo to discredit the us of a on the world media forums---and you failed miserably----.

You want to know why----because you are a nation of not very intelligent people----you are very sharp and clever people---but your cleverness only takes you as far as how you can rip and steal from others, take bribes, loot national wealth and the likes of these---but when it comes to national interests---the brain stops working.


Pressler was a pakistan hater and loved the indians----. The u s did not want pakistan to be de nuclearized--as a matter of fact our nuc program had the indirect blessings of the u s---so many of our scientists got educated her---so much stuff that palkistan bought from the u s-----.

The problem lays with you pakistanis----you cannot comprehend when the wind starts changing direction----and you do not have the ability to think on your feet---and you do not have the ability of changing direction in mid step---as a nation you do not have the larceny and deviousness in you to get back.

 

[Jungibaaz]

And how exactly are pakistani people destroying themselves? Its your boodly ganja and zardari , the slaves of america who brought us to this situation.

Oh no no no my dear.

You people bought this on yourselves, you people voted them in, you people who don't pay their taxes, you people don't like to work hard and you people don't want to earn success.

Did Allah not tell us 'Jaisi Qaum Waisay Hukmaran'?

Some forms of American influence has done it's part in worsening the problem. But what now? Want to sit around and cry about it? Do something rather than blaming others.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me more than twice, I must be a Pakistani.

 

[faeza]

@MastanKhan so its a well known fact but we, a whole 190 million people, dont know about it - it doesnt make it a well known fact.
yet taking my point - why would an ally have any objections with our nuclear weapons - and why did usa keep taking the money? thats basically exploitation of a young nation.
you ignored half of the other things i mentioned there - every nation comprehends fact to its liking - pakistan is a very young nation compared to the USA - our mistake was when we paired with USA - and so far us being not intelligent that is what i have been crying for - we should have left the alliance in 1971 - USA has done no major good to us and the progress that has been aided is only when USA needed to use us in some of its own issues - so my point in that huge comprehension is mainly how US is against pakistan - of course we have been not to aware or clever in the past that is a fact. no denying facts - the de-nuclearize issue - i suggest you open your eyes to that - USA is not only an enemy to Pakistan but whole of the muslim world - google its wars if you like .
you are right in your regard pakistan is to blame for its naive and some what stupid actions - But really how can you explain America's reason for all she did.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

hello humans i am back!
Okay for starters we will take a look at drones – innocent people die , the families of affected people turn against drones and blame the government as they think it supports the US – not only killing of innocent people but a whole region is terrorized –

then stop sheltering the Taliban & secure your border because it is your responsibilities & don't do it there will be consequences

Then the f-16 deal paid $416 million – but when USA found out that Pakistani has nuclear weapons the deal was cancelled – some say the money was refunded and some say it wasn’t

I agree that was wrong on the part of the u.s

A primary aim for USA has been is to de-nuclear-ize Pakistan as the Pressler amendment concluded at it would only provide financial aid if the country did not possess nuclear arm ( not a statement that should be coming from an ally )

doesn't matter now ,because Pakistan is a nuclear power

They used Pakistan as a proxy for Afghanistan when the soviet left America abandoned Pakistan

blame your Army for that ok were they & Zia-ul-Haq a 5 year old child, that they so willingly became a proxy of the U.S during the Afghan jihad of the 80's

The US portrays AL-AQEADA and the TALIBAAN as one , though there is a significant difference – Taliban was actually a resistance group of Afghanistan which earned it support from Pakistani officials when it came in power in Afghanistan in 1994 (it was later things changed) while AL QAEDA was a jihadi group founded by OBL and was responsible for 9/11
They hold us responsible for the 9/11 – with statements such as WITH FRIENDS LIKE PAKISTAN WHO NEEDS ENEMIES or FRIENDS WITHOUT BENEFITS

again why was your Army involve in Afghanistan they should have sealed the border & should have kept out of Afghanistan's internal issues

USA has long violated the private Pakistani soil

who is stopping you from land reforms then

Their foundations are funding schools to promote westernization

so' ? what's wrong in westernization ? I my self am a westernized person how will you feel, if I start to generalise things that you value, as typical third world mentality ? so before you taunt our societies way of life, be prepared to get some introspects on your side of the isle too, & finally promotion of schools is a positive contribution which itself is a good thing & you should be grateful for that, they are at least promoting education in your society, which your people have neglected

A big deal of mess Pakistani is in at the moment is due the alliance with American in the afghan war – they have been providing us with aid – but a few billion dollars will not change the past – these aid are more of bribes

blame your Army for that

America has been longing India to join hands to overcome the china issue of America which will address India’s Pakistan issue automatically – your enemy’s friend is your enemy.

every country does what's in their interest ,or are they supposed to formulate their foreign policy according to your wishes

Russia has for a very long time vetoed decisions beneficial to India – however not the same has been observed in the case of America in Pakistan’s regard how the promised American fleet never showed up in 1971 or how Pakistan was callously used when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan

blame your Army for that, who asked Ayub Khan to jump on the American bandwagon tell ne was he a child ?

Pakistan has been stabbed in the back by America once in 1965 and then again in 1971

& that's exactly what happens, when you expect others to do your job, so I said blame your Army for that

Liberation movements of Balochis do have a evident foreign interference.

then seal the Damn Afghan border & guard it strongly & address the issues of baloch people, while at the same time dealing with the miscreants & insurgent firmly

US weapons were found with the Taliban – also believed that CIA is funding TTP ( but lets keep that confined to being a rumor)

again seal the seal the Afghan border & guard it strongly, & deal with the militants firmly

Raymond Davis issue speaks for itself

then why did you guys let him go ?

Lets keep Dr. Afia Sadiiqi out of it – raped and tortured in prison and a sentence of more than 80 years.

I agree, she should be released

USA doesn’t give a damn about Pakistan – keeping in mind the polio vaccination story just to get DNA from OBL’s family – these Vaccines were not actually functioning –

again blame your blame your Army for that, what was a dreaded terrorist like OBL doing near a military academy ?

Conclusion ; I have my reason to consider America as the enemy of the state and let me make myself clear on the issue that I don’t hold Americans as the basis of all Pakistani issues – I only mentioned the part where the US is playing its role and that is primarily the defense issue faced by our country – all the root of so many other problems in Pakistan

look I will be straight with you, & say it the way I see it,
I find your reasoning standing on the foundations of "escapism" supported by the pillars of "heresy"

 

[faeza]

@genmirajborgza786 you my friend made me laugh for a moment if its heresy then why blame the army or government its heresy who gives a damn - nothing really happened -
okay firstly who ever is there to blame WHOEVER ( army for everything in your regard) - my basic point which you are too ignorant to grasp is , if this all happened somehow , what was USA's purpose behind this - and also i would like to raise another question do you seriously think we were financially capable of fighting the indo-pak war without foreign assistance especially when India was backed up by russia - and mind i point it out again pakistan was a young naive nation exploited by USA - its our fault for the fact that USA was formed in 1776 and we in 1947 ? you do the math relating to the years of experience and evolution america had - and how much pakistan had . your points are really not contradicting mine you are just telling me who was responsible for USA's evil doings (which occured , right? how else would you find someone to blame)

i will be very honest with you too - that was too much moonshine for me to take in

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan so its a well known fact but we, a whole 190 million people, dont know about it - it doesnt make it a well known fact.
yet taking my point - why would an ally have any objections with our nuclear weapons - and why did usa keep taking the money? thats basically exploitation of a young nation.
.

Hi,

It may not known to pakistanis---because they don't want to know---ignorance of the law is not an excuse to commit the crime.

Otherwise there is no secret to how pakistan tricked the u s into the afghan war---the paf failed to stop payment on the F16's and take legal advice---pakistan failed to manipulate the situation to its advantage after 9/11. There have been many a books written about it.

There is a lot to learn for you in this regard----.

The thing is that you want to play in the big boyz club---but you don't have the discipline nor the character or the tactics to do so.

The thing that pakistanis don't understand and don't want to---because they cannot distinguish between and and don't want to believe it either-----that there is a big lobby in the u s in favor of pakistan as well. The pakistanis admit to the lobby working against them----but they have not marketed themselves better to those who stand with them.

Another problem with paks is that----they do not understand the importance of their presenting pakistan in a positive manner on the u s media on a regular basis---.

There has been nobody that I know of to talk positivel about pakistan since Osama got killed. Prior to that when Mushy was in power---he would be presenting pakistan's case all the time---fighting like a warrior.

Zardari and Nawaz can't even talk---=-and Haqqani---the pakistani ambassador----he was the one leading the attack against pakistani establishment while serving as the pakistani ambassador.

 

[faeza]

@MastanKhan if this is how you deal with an argument then ofcourse you are terribly stupid as well - pakistan tricked the US - so one moment to decide to tell me about how stupid pakistan is and then the next moment i am being told we tricked a super power -again i am hearing pakistan is poor corrupt , stupid , coward - repetition *yawns - make a point beyond that please. i get it you hate pakistan

and still i have not gotten a point from you that has really made me think about anything (except for your big boys club - seriously is that what you call it? ), you are ignoring alot of stuff i am saying , is that how we play in the "big boys club" ?

*waiting for another reply telling me about my qualities.