Hindu extremist group behind Goa blast

[garibnawaz]

^^^^

Ejaz,

Malegaon has all the candidates muslims just as Mankhurd in Mumbai.

Every party (including sena-bjp) has a muslim candidates and hence such flags are inevitable to impress the muslim voters.

Just for a note neither, Sena-BJP, nor Congress nor SP candidate won in Malegaon.

A mufti belonging to Jansurajya party won.

Coming back to the point of Afzal Khan poster in Sangli as I said the poster was rather implicating the victory of good over bad. Just as Hindu's burn Lord Ravana (a Hindu Brahmin King of Lanka) on the day of dussera.

No one should have a problem with Afzal Khan poster as it is also in the History books of Maharashtra board and shown on television many times.

It is not something which was prohibited for muslims neither it should be provocative for an excuse of starting a riot.

From amongst all the possible pictures of Shivaji, why is the one related to Afzal Khan is chosen? One can also show the pictures of his Pratapgadh fort with Afzal Khans tomb in that, one can show Shivaji paying respect to the Mazar of Madari Mehtar, a Muslim prince, who helped him to escape from Agra? The very selection of this picture is to divide the communities along religious lines.

So that is the justification for attacking Ganesh Pandal's and breaking hindu idols?

Don't forget Islam is a religion of Peace.

I didn't saw any violance from the Hindu's after MF Hussain's controversial paintings on hindu Gods.

Ofcourse people should not react with violence but can you provide any source that only "muslim goons" were imported.

After arresting the culprits police found that 23 people were from Bhiwandi especially brought to Sangli in order to create riots.

The main conspirator of these riots Imran Nadaf had training in Bhiwandi and Navsari (Gujrat) in order to spread the riots.

One nabbed for conspiracy - Pune - City - The Times of India

Curfew timings reduced further in Miraj, Sangli - Pune - City - The Times of India

I will find the sources/links of Bhiwandi people arrests and will post them as well.

GB

 

[EjazR]

^^^^

Ejaz,

Malegaon has all the candidates muslims just as Mankhurd in Mumbai.

Every party (including sena-bjp) has a muslim candidates and hence such flags are inevitable to impress the muslim voters.

Just for a note neither, Sena-BJP, nor Congress nor SP candidate won in Malegaon.

A mufti belonging to Jansurajya party won.

Thats what I was trying to prove. Just how opportunist shiv sena is. They just use religion to gain politcal power and make money. They are similar to similar parties in Pakistan like JI or JUI who use the name of Islam to get political power but are basically filling their pockets once they do.

None of the other parties used these flags. The mufti who won hardly spent any money on campaigning. His campaign contribution request was just Rs per person. He played a leading role as social activist and worked with the police to defuse tensions and contain riots. And he was elected from a secular party that had hindu and muslim support base.
Malegaon imam, a product of deoband, is MLA - India - The Times of India

This proves that muslims most of the time don't need cheap tricks of minority appeasement that shiv sena indulged in but want comprehensive development and good governance so that it can benefit all people. Not just muslims

No one should have a problem with Afzal Khan poster as it is also in the History books of Maharashtra board and shown on television many times.

It is not something which was prohibited for muslims neither it should be provocative for an excuse of starting a riot.

So that is the justification for attacking Ganesh Pandal's and breaking hindu idols?

Don't forget Islam is a religion of Peace.

I didn't saw any violence from the Hindu's after MF Hussain's controversial paintings on hindu Gods.

Looks like you missed my post where I explained that the fight was mainly a political fight. Why did Shivaji himself build and pay respect to Afzal Khan's tomb after his death. And what does Ganesh ritual have anything to do with it? There was no Dusera festival going on. Do read the article by Ram Punyani to get a better perspective.

Of course, there should be no violence and breaking idols, that is not justified at all and people involved in that should be punished. And if MF Hussain's paintings are offensive (this is offtopic btw), they should not be allowed either.

Thousands of muslims around India took part in the Ganesh festivals, did they have any problems ? If you are not seeing the political factor working here then I don't know what to discuss. They wanted to communalise voters and they won in Sangli, but obviously the affect of their politcs failed overall in the state. Something similar to the Philbit incident were the constituency was won at the expense of the overall campaign.

After arresting the culprits police found that 23 people were from Bhiwandi especially brought to Sangli in order to create riots.

The main conspirator of these riots Imran Nadaf had training in Bhiwandi and Navsari (Gujrat) in order to spread the riots.

One nabbed for conspiracy - Pune - City - The Times of India

Curfew timings reduced further in Miraj, Sangli - Pune - City - The Times of India

I will find the sources/links of Bhiwandi people arrests and will post them as well.

GB

Read the article I posted about the sangli riots. The police officials clearly stated that these were politically motivated. And ALL people involved should be arrested, wether Hindus or Muslims. There is no excuse for taking law into your hands. And if the police is committing atrocities against Hindus or Muslims then they should be punished severely as well. There should be no excuses.

Now coming to my last part, has any of the right wing parties condemned terrorists acts yet? Have they come out boldly and made clear that there should be no violence in the name of religion so that impressionable youth don't commit terrorists acts? Muslim leaders have held many demonstrations around India against muslim extremists, isn't about time that these groups condemn any terrorists activities committed by Hindu extremists?

 

[garibnawaz]

Thats what I was trying to prove. Just how opportunist shiv sena is. They just use religion to gain politcal power and make money.

THats why people have shown them the door. They performed worst in last 20 years. While BJP got more seats than Sena MNS came on 2nd number in Mumbai and BJP 3rd.

They are similar to similar parties in Pakistan like JI or JUI who use the name of Islam to get political power but are basically filling their pockets once they do.

Looks like you missed my post where I explained that the fight was mainly a political fight.

The riot starters (Imran Nadaf and Co.) were not politically motivated but religiously motivated. The aftermath turned political. In both Sangli and Miraj congress candidates lost because ordinary people were angry at politicians and police handling of the whole incident.

Same happened in Jammu after Amarnath Land row. BJP number went from 1 to 11 in the assembly and we saw Prithviraj Chavan (Congress leader) expressing his concerns over demise of secularism in Jammu.

Of course, there should be no violence and breaking idols, that is not justified at all and people involved in that should be punished. And if MF Hussain's paintings are offensive (this is offtopic btw), they should not be allowed either.

This is exactly my point. If hindu's are showing patience why can't the muslims?

Since muslims don't (as we also saw on Prophet cartoon) and mostly starts riots organizations like Sanatan Sanstha start coming into picture.

Bhiwandi riots (Two policemen were stripped and stoned to death), Rabori (Thane) riots over Navratri pandal are the good examples.

Fortunately people in Rabori learnt from their mistakes and Ganesh immersion this year was peaceful.

Thousands of muslims around India took part in the Ganesh festivals, did they have any problems ?

Fatwa agains Salman Khan and family.

Read the article I posted about the sangli riots. The police officials clearly stated that these were politically motivated.

Police officials are stating the reactions of BJP-Sena to save their own skin. I gave you an example (which can be also seen on a youtube video) where a guy climbed on police jeep and put a green flag. Instead of kicking his butt he was offered a hand to come down. Such actions made people angry.

Ganesh pandals in Sangli and Miraj decided not to do Ganesh immersion until the culprits are caught and punished. Do you think this is also politically motivated?

Laweyers Bar asssociation of Sangli and Miraj decided not to provide any local lawyer to Imran Nadaf and co. Is this also politically motivated?

Now coming to my last part, has any of the right wing parties condemned terrorists acts yet?

If you are referring to Malegaon blasts and Goa blasts then has any of them are convicted yet?

Government lost face when MCOCA was removed from Malegaon Blast accused. Now Goa police themselves saying that Sanatan Sanstha is not involved.

My point in the discussion is if people from both the sides show patience and harmony organizations like Sanatan Sanstha will loose ground. When politicians and police (orders from politicians) act one sided in the name of secularism (to gain muslim votes) it obviously hurts the hindus and this is where Sanatan Sanstha and Abhinav Bharat come in picture.

This is where BJP number go 11 from 1 in Kashmir assembly.

GB

 

[EjazR]

THats why people have shown them the door. They performed worst in last 20 years. While BJP got more seats than Sena MNS came on 2nd number in Mumbai and BJP 3rd.

Agreed, although I do hope that these parties instead of focussing on ethnic and religious issues focus on good governance and inclusive development. I don't want the situation to go back to the Congress in the 70s and 80s where there was virtually no opposition to speak of.

The riot starters (Imran Nadaf and Co.) were not politically motivated but religiously motivated. The aftermath turned political. In both Sangli and Miraj congress candidates lost because ordinary people were angry at politicians and police handling of the whole incident.

Has he been convicted by the courts? As we say innocent until proven guilty. And all involved in the rioting should be punished regardless of who they are.

And when I talked about political motivations, I was talking about the setting up of the arch. It was setup by Shiv Sena activists after refulsal from district administrtors and you can see their politicians pictures on the pandal. So clearly it had political connotations right from the beginning.

Like Ram Punyani in his article mentioned, I am all for praising Shivaji, he was an excellent ruler for his people, so why not potray what he really was and promote communal harmony? This festival could have been a great way for these parties to show that they also stand for communal harmony.

This is exactly my point. If hindu's are showing patience why can't the muslims?

Looks like you have some misconceptions there, the problem is with fringe elements on BOTH sides who are extremists. Not with the majority of the people. It is these right -wing elements that are the problem. It is these right wing elements that need to show patience. Didn't the group get permission to put up the pandal only after the two-dozen muslim leaders in the area had agreed to ignore the developments and let is pass? It was only after this meeting that permission was given.

Still some miscreants from both sides suceeded in communalising the atmoshere for political benefit.

The vast majority of Hindus and Muslims, even religious Hindus and Muslims don't like their using religion for political purposes. Unfortunately many impressionable young people get used on both sides for these purposes not seeing the big picture and are brainwashed into a seige mentality.

By the way MF Hussain is still living in exile

Fatwa agains Salman Khan and family.

I don't know what you mean here? Was there a fatwa saying you could not greet people on festival? Or that you should not pray to idols? If its the latter (which I think is the case) then whats wrong with that? Not just Muslims, but Christians, Sikhs, Parsis, Jews, Arya Samajis, Lingayats, Vedantists e.t.c. don't pray to idols. This doesn't mean that they won't participate in the festival and greet each other.

Personally, if someone actually gave a fatwa specifically mentioning Salman Khan by name that was pretty stupid and useless.

My point in the discussion is if people from both the sides show patience and harmony organizations like Sanatan Sanstha will loose ground. When politicians and police (orders from politicians) act one sided in the name of secularism (to gain muslim votes) it obviously hurts the hindus and this is where Sanatan Sanstha and Abhinav Bharat come in picture.

This is where BJP number go 11 from 1 in Kashmir assembly.

GB

I agree ofcourse, but that doesn't mean we should just sit on the side and expect the politicians (including from Congress) to promote patience and harmony. Its the people who have to take the first step, because for most politicians, it is favourable for them to NOT have communal harmony. I hope you see my point here.

Just like majority of the muslims are against AQ and Taliban who "claim"to protect muslims or avenge muslims, Im sure that majority of Hindus are against actions like Abhinav Bharat or any other outfits that uses violence and "claim" to protect Hindus.

Not only should religious scholars denounce extremists activities in the name of religion, they should come forward and promote inter-faith dialouge to clear up misconceptions. I think the vast majority of the people are already moving in this direction. And its only a matter of time and as people get more educated and politicans realise that its development and good governance that matters, we will see less of this pseudo-secularism stuff.
The other important thing is to crush rumours and biased information on Internet and youtube. These are hardly ceredible source of information and help only in rumour mongering. For example AQ uses youtube to spread their propaganda as well.
Here is an interesting article from the Mid-day about this:
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/se...-Shivaji-Afzal-Khan-Miraj-Krishna-Prakash.htm

 

[Halaku Khan]

Good discussion here.

Organizations like Sanatan Sanstha have a very limited perspective.

But medieval history is still a raw wound, with some Hindus resentful of historical crimes, and some Muslims trying to either whitewash those crimes or even taking pride in them.

I think the churning will go on for another century before an equilibrium is reached.

IMHO, in the equilibrium state, Muslims will generally be more conscious of the fact that they are mostly descended from Hindus, and that there is a lot in the culture and traditions of their pre-Islamic ancestors to honour and to feel proud of. We are already partly there, imho.

 

[garibnawaz]

I don't know what you mean here? Was there a fatwa saying you could not greet people on festival? Or that you should not pray to idols? If its the latter (which I think is the case) then whats wrong with that?

I have got a problem with Fatwah. Salman Khan's mother is a Hindu Brahmin and her faith is on Lord Ganesha. Salman's brother Sohail Khan's wife is a hindu too. Hence to respect that the Khan family not only establish the Ganesha but also invite people to get the blessings. People (page 3 people mostly) go to Khans irrespective of their religion to seek the blessings.

Although all the other religions don't have practice to worship idols, many do it and their religious leaders don't act stupid like the mullah's did with the Fatwah. Salim Khan (a veteran scriptwriter/producer and Salman Khan's Father) reacted angrily against the mullah's.

Fatwa against Salman Khan: A jibe at secularism

Salman's father fumes against fatwa, warned again

When P.C.Alexander was Governer of Maharashtra he used to do a Ganesh Pooja in Pune Ganeshotsav. No cardinal or any Christian religious scholar spoke a word against it.

I know many muslims in Mumbai who are Chairmen of Ganesh Mandal's.

There is a muslim family who establish Ganesha at their home. They were not having a baby for a long. They went to Siddhivinayak and did a 'navas' that if they have a baby they will start establishing Ganesa at their home during Ganesh Chaturthi.

Although their religion prohibits idol worship its their faith and personal matter which Mullah's has no jurisdiction.

And when I talked about political motivations, I was talking about the setting up of the arch. It was setup by Shiv Sena activists after refulsal from district administrtors and you can see their politicians pictures on the pandal. So clearly it had political connotations right from the beginning.

Your info is wrong. It was not setup by Sena activists. I have already mentioned it in my earlier post. There is nothing wrong with the cutout. It is a true fact from history and it is a symbol of victory of good over bad. Just like Ravana Killing is done on Dussera.

By the way MF Hussain is still living in exile

You are wrong sire. He is not living in exile. He is very much in India but not getting into public these days because of his old age.

He has infact produced and directed two bollywood movies Gaj Gamini and Meenaxi.

Husain's film Meenaxi: A Tale of Three Cities was pulled out of movie theatres a day after some Muslim organisations raised objections to one of the songs in it. The All-India Ulema Council complained that the Qawwali song ‘Noor-un-Ala-Noor’ was blasphemous. It argued that the song contained words directly taken from the Quran. The council was supported by Muslim organisations like the Milli Council, All-India Muslim Council, Raza Academy, Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Hind and Jamat-e-Islami.

Husain's son stated that the words were a phrase referring to divine beauty that were being sung by the central character played by Tabu. He said there was no intention to offend.

GB

 

[EjazR]

^^^ I think you are missing my point and selective reading of my posts is taking this thread offtopic

You mentioned the fatwa when I mentioned that many muslims participated in Ganesh festival and had no problems with the festival itself. Where does the fatwa counter my argument? I also mentioned that if the fatwa mentions Salman Khan by name, and he has not requested for it, then it was useless and pointless in issuing the fatwa. Its upto Salman Khan what he does, if he doesn't want to follow it no one can or should force him.

On the other hand, there is no denying that by their faith, not just muslims but many others will not do idol worship including Arya Samajis, Lingayats and Vedantist among others. This is part of Freedom of religion. But that wouldn't prevent someone in greeting/ participating in the festival.

I have discussed about the pandal and how this could have been a way to promote communal harmony using Shivaji again as an icon in my previous posts. These actions of him were also historical facts that shoould be bought out in the open. Otherwise we will have misguioded VHP and BD youths going to demolish Afzal Khan's tomb which was built by Shivaji himself. These misconceptions should be cleared.

Also about two dozen local muslim leaders had discussed with the local SP and consented to allow the pandal to go ahead. Still some miscreants from both communities achieved in causing problems and making it a politcal issue. Anyone who took law and order in his hands should be punished. There is nothing else to add to it really.

Again the Hussain issue came about by your claims of branding people as tolerant vs intolerant. MF Hussain does not represent all muslims first of all. I have made my personal views clear on that. And the most prominent people who support him are mostly Hindus themselves.

Ofcourse there are extremists in every religion. And BJP's Maneka Ghandhi herself had to condemn VHP and BD activists for causing law and order problems and issuing threats. Ofcourse I would agree that VHP and BD do not represent all Hindus. Just as MF Hussain doesn't represent all muslims.
BJP offending cultural world, says Maneka

And according to rediff, he is still in exile as he is still scared to come back due to threats.
M F Husain's 94th birthday, in exile: Rediff.com News


Bottom line is that we are condemning extremist ideology particularly when mixed with religion, any religion here. There are multiple threads where you will see many muslims here denouncing the similar extremist muslims as well.

Almost all extremist movements have these factors in common wether they be among Chrisitans Muslims Jews or Hindus. A seige mentality is created where it is potrayed to young gullible minds that everyone is out to get you and have a planned conspiracy to destroy your religion / ethnic group (e.g. the Crusader-Zionist "conspiracy as potrayed by AQ). Every single matter no matter how small or big is shown in communal terms and the "enemy" is shown as a monolith always out to "get" you (e.g. Obama Bush is the same). Violence against innocents is justified to save your community and religion even if it goes against the very tenets of your faith and holy books (e.g. use of suicide bombings). And it depends primarily on rumor mongering and false information to create this sense of paranoia. This applies to religious extremist of all groups and you will be able to find similar examples.

Therefore its necessary to condemn extremism, no matter where its coming from and promote interfaith dialogue globally. Because no matter what ethnic or religious group you belong to, the vast majority who follow their religion will favor peaceful coexistence.

 

[graphican]

Don't worry, Indian journalism is robust enough to showcase the true ground realities.

Oh really? You might want to review your opinion after watching this.

You are probably the only Indian chap in the forum who is loving its media.

 

[blueoval79]

Oh really? You mind want to review your opinion after watching this.

hgh8SxCZjMY[/media] - Funny INDIAN MEDIA - SHAME!!

You are probably the only Indian chap in the forum who is loving its media.

I really find it funny...a strange pakistani Logic....

One TV Channel = Whole India Media....

One Extreamist = Entire Indian Mindset.


But Somehow this logic Fails to work inside Pakistan....

Somehow...

One Stupid TV Channel In Pakistan is not equal to entire Pakistan media

And Many Anti India terrorist groups is not equal to entire Pakistan mindset.

 

[Spring Onion]

That's exactly how Muslim extremists and AQ type recruit terrorists as well. We are talking about tackling the ideology that produces terrorism. The cartoon (and similar media) is creating a sense of paranoia in impressionable hindus that somehow the police and muslims are joining hands to beat up hindus. That is patently untrue when infact more than 90% of the Maharashtra police force is themselves Hindu.

How can you equate a person who "planted" a green flag and was asked by the police to step down to "kicking" Hindus? This is just promoting enmity and hate among communities. Ofcourse the groups itself didn't call for the terrorism. But impressionable youths will take law into their own hands.

Compare this to AQ propaganda videos, where they show muslims being killed from different parts of the world and say that muslims unite to fight the "kafirs". That is why its cause for concern.

I wonder the man was arrested for hoisting (which even dint prove that he was the one who did it) the green flag and even the educated indians here on this same forum were coming up with laws and rules to justify that but interestingly the same Green falgs were hoisting and waved by RSS during election rallies few weeks back.

 

[garibnawaz]

I wonder the man was arrested for hoisting (which even dint prove that he was the one who did it)

You a reporter right?

A little search on youtube will help to prove as the video is posted on youtube.

the green flag and even the educated indians here on this same forum were coming up with laws and rules to justify that but interestingly the same Green falgs were hoisting and waved by RSS during election rallies few weeks back.

RSS is not a political party. Being a self proclaimed journalist you should have know that and hence they dont do political rallies.

Secondly posting a green (religious) flag in political rally and posting a green (religious) or any other religious flag on the police vehicle is different.

Any religious flag on a Government vehicle including law inforcement and armed forces is an offence.

GB

 

[Spring Onion]

Two arrested for Goa blast

Indo-Asian News Service
Panaji, October 31, 2009
First Published: 17:33 IST(31/10/2009)
Last Updated: 17:35 IST(31/10/2009)




Two people hailing from Karnataka were arrested in Goa on Saturday in connection with the Diwali eve blast in Margao in which two members of the Hindu group Sanatan Sanstha were killed while carrying a bomb, police said.

Deputy Inspector General of Police R S Yadav, reading out a statement at the police headquarters here, said Vinay Talekar, 30, hailing from Karwar, and Vinayak Patil, 27, had been arrested in Margao.

Both were residing in Ponda for the last few years, Yadav said, refusing to state whether they were members of Sanatan Sanstha, two of whose members were killed in an explosion while ferrying detonator-rigged gelatin sticks on a scooter in Margao, 35 km from Panaji.

"They have been arrested under several sections of the Indian Penal Code, the unlawful activities act and the explosive substances act. The arrests were carried out at 12.40 am," Yadav said, refusing to divulge details.

The arrests were conducted by members of the Special Investigation Team which has been formed to probe the blast.

"We had called the duo for questioning earlier in course of the investigation," Yadav said.

With these two arrests, the total number of people booked in the blast case now rises to four, including Malgonda Patil and Yogesh Naik, who died of injuries from the blast October 16.
Two arrested for Goa blast- Hindustan Times

 

[abbasniazi]

Thanx God they haven't put it on ISI and pakistan this time, or they may change their stance and say ISI is supporting by planning the blast and helping hindu fanatics carry out such operations.

 

[Stumper]

and helping hindu fanatics carry out such operations.

Do you also call Talibs as Muslim fanatic's or Jihadi's?

 

[abbasniazi]

Do you also call Talibs as Muslim fanatic's or Jihadi's?

Fanatics are Fanatics, no matter which religion or country they belong to...