Hiding from reality , and IMF & International Banks won't lend for the real projects

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Every nation of the world before it climbs the ranks and calls itself a developed nation follows a very similar path of progress and striving.

These paths are very simple

a) Solving the Transportation problems
b) Introducing the most efficient mode of Transportation of goods in country
c) Implementation of a effective taxation model
d) Energy Manufacturing in country (DAMS, Nuclear power plants , Coal plants)
e) Growing food products


Case Study: Transportaion / Japan (50's /60's)
Japan , after Japan was detroyed to great extent by WW2 and it's economy was in tatters, the Japanese made a very bold decision. That decision was what mode of transportation Japan will invest in for next 100 years. Obviously that decision eventually went in favor of developing Railways (Subways, Railways , Bullet Trains). They put all their resources into one simple goal. The railways are run by electric power , quite clear Japan manufactures majority of their power by Nuclear means.

Case Study: Transportaion / USA (18th century)
Back in 1800's when oil was discovered, one of the most important tasks of century that took place in USA was development of network of roads and railways. The extent of the projects can be visualize when you consider it takes 5 hours to go East to West cost by plane. The impact of this was simple , USA found black oil , and this source of energy was used fuel an industrial revolution. However all goods still had to be transported across the country. Roads/ Trains played a major role in successful manner


Case Study : Water conservation / Flood protection China (Modern Times)
Similarly in modern times we see China , solved a major problem it's eastern Provinces had with flood water. They solved the problem by making a national consensus for Need for a Massive DAM infact not only a mini DAM but they wanted to construct the DAM of all DAMS which later got named as Three Gorges Dam. Without doubt now seen as a Engineering wonder of modern times. What can we learn from this action? Firstly they showed the world that they can take a difficult decision to build the dam it meant moving great amount of population and relocate them. However for National needs they did not care about minor issues of what few objections the overheard. Now the project has reduced risk of Massive floods and also has conserved lot of drinkable water for Chinese nation.

Now out of the 5 points I rased I gave examples on 2 Areas (Transportation and DAM construction) . Pakistan has never had issues with Farming (Growning food) and we had been blessed with Gas reserves for past 50 years.


So here comes the big question knowing very well what other successful nations have done why is it that we cannot follow a simple model of success ?

• Develop Strong Network of Rail / Roads / Hydral Dams

The self inflicted wound of completely treating the Railways as an orphan , and pretty much taking every step possible to destroy this institue from bottom up? We don't see a massive Engineering and rebuild facility for Locomotives even when this technology can be attained by little imvestment from state to aquire licence production of a base Engine from International country and manufacture and overhaul Locomotives locally in Pakistan. We are not talking about 2-3 Engines per year I am talking about ability to Develop 500 Engines (Locomotives) like USA does. What is that difference between USA or Pakistan , we have Engineering labor force who can watch and learn any imaginable skilll

• If our Railway was run by Electricity we could have created a Nuclear power plant and used it's energy 100% for Running only the railways I know idea is briliant

However we as Pakistanis will continue to inflict our blood veins with self inflicted wounds and we will continue to import Locomotives that run on Petrol/Gas/Diesal. After all doing the Obvious opposite to what is the ideal case for Pakistan has been a Trend in Pakistan

Then we look at issue of Water & Dams

What is the main Objective from a Federal Level i.e from Top level Government that sits above Provincial powers. Obviously the simple answer is "MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS" and override provincial decisions.

Kalabagh Dam

• Kalabagh Dam , we missed the chance to make it in 80's , 90's , 00's we could have constructed this awesome resource for only 1-2 Billion USD. Reason of not building the most simple. Scientist recommended for the Dam but politicians used that issue to win votes

Bhasha Dam

• So once Kala Bagh DAM was not constructed in last 10 years or so we started to hear about this new DAM. While being a superior idea we cannot secure funding for this project internationally. The delay has resulted in cost rising up to 13 Bilion Dollars HIGHLY INFLATED FIGURE

In the issue related to water conservation we can clearly see , we do not have consensus as a Nation , on matter of water saving what is important Drinkable water ? Or politics


China , when their Ellite Elders (Policy Makers) sat down 25-35 years ago , they made policies and developed step by step guidelines how every simple step will be made into reality and in order to meet that goal , they even went far as to make the Three Gorges Dam. Did they waste 30-40 years to debate on should they construct a Dam or not ? Like Pakistan did for 30-40 years? No , simple they looked at the BIGGER PICTURE and did not viewed the issue at Provincial level or community level. They looked at the BIG PICTURE

Pakistan , on other hand we can't look at the BIG PICTURE​

• The big picture for Pakistan should be Kalabagh Dam and Bhasha Dam should be matter of life and death

• We need to Takle the issue of Fully Functional Railways at Japanese standard and all trains need to run on Nuclear power 100% seperate Electric lines

What are the forces which are preventing us to finish or focus on 2 simple areas which can make drastic changes in Pakistan's Economy and Life standard i.e Availability of water ?

Pakistan & it's Need for water is it bigger ? Or What PPP claim that they will not allow Kalabagh Dam ? On what basis?

Pakistan & it's need to shift 80% transport on trains ? or Petrol Mafia

 

[ashok321]

However we as Pakistanis will continue to inflict our blood veins with self inflicted wounds and we will continue to import Locomotives that run on Petrol/Gas/Diesal. After all doing the Obvious opposite to what is the ideal case for Pakistan has been a Trend in Pakistan

https://twitter.com/x/status/927478611405185024

Pakistan says no to Chinese funding on Azad Kashmir dam
https://www.newsbytesapp.com/timeli...a-dam-why-did-pakistan-refuse-chinese-funding

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Price of Bhasha DAM has already skyrocketted due to 50% reduction in value of Pakistan's currency what costed perhaps 4-5 Billion in Musharaf's time is now being estimated at 13 Billion Dollars ?!!!! Double the price what was qouted in Musharaf's time

Musharaf was in power just in 2007 just 10 years ago !!!! Had he finished the DAM he was eager to build we would not have water shortages

Without a Network of Trains in country , done on Emergency basis and Inner city Trains
CPEC project will have lesser impact

Benefits of Hydral Power (Bhasha DAM)
a) Electricity <------ This is a bonus bounty 4,500 MW electricty produced
b) Drinkable water <----- This is the most important gain
c) Water for farming <----- This is the most important gain
d) Reduction in flooding

So if a joint venture is done with Chinese firm do a 50% JV with Chinese on electricity
Pakistan still gets Billions of drinkable water and Billion of gallons of water for farming which
is not effected by any business deal. 50% Profits gained by Pakistan is still better then ZERO


Similarly , to run an effective Train system we really need 4,000-5,000 Lomotives and ideally on Electric system , and we need to run the Locomotives on Electricity

Pakistan Railways is Key to OPEC success why the Train / Freight system is not on CPEC yet !! is Beyond my understanding

The world moves shiat on Trains


1 Local Train in Karachi/Lahore/Faisalabad/Quetta/Peshawar can move this many passengers

• Easily 5,000 people

What great technology is involved? Just a plain Metal Railways done since 1800


When I see Pakistani roads , Motor cycles , breaking every imaginable law , and rickshaws following no laws making U turns , Z turns and Q turns

Fixing the Railway infrastructure and connnecting it to Local 8 cities of Pakistan should be CPEC priority

American Railway revolution 1869 nice and easy labour force !!!!
We constructed all of UAE by our labour force

Now it is done by Mega Machines

Every thing is automated

I mean we can literally lay down tones of track with automated machines these days it is not 1800's as it was case before bring in new trains which run on electric power and modern grids

Trust me we have no shortage of rocks from mountains

The TRAIN is for CPEC
The DAM is for life or death (water -> Agriculture -> food )

 

[volatile]

The real issue has been the discontinuation of the policies as well as regime changes for example it is very simple to just say specific group of people are responsible but we all forget to address that more than half of our history Military was full in command infact even the other half they make sure no one can do his/her job by calling shots and puppet stringing , Now more recent example also comes when Ayub Khan was in power he make sure that he puts people from his own clan similarly we all know Ghulam Ishaq Khan and his role in inserting not even graduates of that time from NWFP to WAPDA and they made sure no dam constructed in Punjab the case is similar for Diamer Basha Dam as well since the reservoir design has been changed to such extent which favours KPK rather than Pakistan in terms of royalties .

 

[ziaulislam]

Every nation of the world before it climbs the ranks and calls itself a developed nation follows a very similar path of progress and striving.

These paths are very simple

a) Solving the Transportation problems
b) Introducing the most efficient mode of Transportation of goods in country
c) Implementation of a effective taxation model
d) Energy Manufacturing in country (DAMS, Nuclear power plants , Coal plants)
e) Growing food products


Case Study: Transportaion / Japan (50's /60's)
Japan , after Japan was detroyed to great extent by WW2 and it's economy was in tatters, the Japanese made a very bold decision. That decision was what mode of transportation Japan will invest in for next 100 years. Obviously that decision eventually went in favor of developing Railways (Subways, Railways , Bullet Trains). They put all their resources into one simple goal. The railways are run by electric power , quite clear Japan manufactures majority of their power by Nuclear means.

Case Study: Transportaion / USA (18th century)
Back in 1800's when oil was discovered, one of the most important tasks of century that took place in USA was development of network of roads and railways. The extent of the projects can be visualize when you consider it takes 5 hours to go East to West cost by plane. The impact of this was simple , USA found black oil , and this source of energy was used fuel an industrial revolution. However all goods still had to be transported across the country. Roads/ Trains played a major role in successful manner


Case Study : Water conservation / Flood protection China (Modern Times)
Similarly in modern times we see China , solved a major problem it's eastern Provinces had with flood water. They solved the problem by making a national consensus for Need for a Massive DAM infact not only a mini DAM but they wanted to construct the DAM of all DAMS which later got named as Three Gorges Dam. Without doubt now seen as a Engineering wonder of modern times. What can we learn from this action? Firstly they showed the world that they can take a difficult decision to build the dam it meant moving great amount of population and relocate them. However for National needs they did not care about minor issues of what few objections the overheard. Now the project has reduced risk of Massive floods and also has conserved lot of drinkable water for Chinese nation.

Now out of the 5 points I rased I gave examples on 2 Areas (Transportation and DAM construction) . Pakistan has never had issues with Farming (Growning food) and we had been blessed with Gas reserves for past 50 years.


So here comes the big question knowing very well what other successful nations have done why is it that we cannot follow a simple model of success ?

• Develop Strong Network of Rail / Roads / Hydral Dams

The self inflicted wound of completely treating the Railways as an orphan , and pretty much taking every step possible to destroy this institue from bottom up? We don't see a massive Engineering and rebuild facility for Locomotives even when this technology can be attained by little imvestment from state to aquire licence production of a base Engine from International country and manufacture and overhaul Locomotives locally in Pakistan. We are not talking about 2-3 Engines per year I am talking about ability to Develop 500 Engines (Locomotives) like USA does. What is that difference between USA or Pakistan , we have Engineering labor force who can watch and learn any imaginable skilll

• If our Railway was run by Electricity we could have created a Nuclear power plant and used it's energy 100% for Running only the railways I know idea is briliant

However we as Pakistanis will continue to inflict our blood veins with self inflicted wounds and we will continue to import Locomotives that run on Petrol/Gas/Diesal. After all doing the Obvious opposite to what is the ideal case for Pakistan has been a Trend in Pakistan

Then we look at issue of Water & Dams

What is the main Objective from a Federal Level i.e from Top level Government that sits above Provincial powers. Obviously the simple answer is "MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS" and override provincial decisions.

Kalabagh Dam

• Kalabagh Dam , we missed the chance to make it in 80's , 90's , 00's we could have constructed this awesome resource for only 1-2 Billion USD. Reason of not building the most simple. Scientist recommended for the Dam but politicians used that issue to win votes

Bhasha Dam

• So once Kala Bagh DAM was not constructed in last 10 years or so we started to hear about this new DAM. While being a superior idea we cannot secure funding for this project internationally. The delay has resulted in cost rising up to 13 Bilion Dollars HIGHLY INFLATED FIGURE

In the issue related to water conservation we can clearly see , we do not have consensus as a Nation , on matter of water saving what is important Drinkable water ? Or politics


China , when their Ellite Elders (Policy Makers) sat down 25-35 years ago , they made policies and developed step by step guidelines how every simple step will be made into reality and in order to meet that goal , they even went far as to make the Three Gorges Dam. Did they waste 30-40 years to debate on should they construct a Dam or not ? Like Pakistan did for 30-40 years? No , simple they looked at the BIGGER PICTURE and did not viewed the issue at Provincial level or community level. They looked at the BIG PICTURE

Pakistan , on other hand we can't look at the BIG PICTURE​

• The big picture for Pakistan should be Kalabagh Dam and Bhasha Dam should be matter of life and death

• We need to Takle the issue of Fully Functional Railways at Japanese standard and all trains need to run on Nuclear power 100% seperate Electric lines

What are the forces which are preventing us to finish or focus on 2 simple areas which can make drastic changes in Pakistan's Economy and Life standard i.e Availability of water ?

Pakistan & it's Need for water is it bigger ? Or What PPP claim that they will not allow Kalabagh Dam ? On what basis?

Pakistan & it's need to shift 80% transport on trains ? or Petrol Mafia

ABSOLUTELY WRONG

WB and AB will not lend us because

1-4. incompetence,incompetence,incompetence,incompetence
5. disputed territory if stiff resistance from india

I will give you four examples

1. Dasu dam:
WB pushing for over a decade but due to incompetence it has been delayed several times, infact even funding is present yet govt is not able to start the project

the reason was that WB was ready to fund 50% but was asking govt to spend merely 120 billion rupees but for some odd reason govt didnt had that money(it did had 150 billion rupees for Rawalpindi-Islamabad metro) finally, the issue was solved when private banks step up and will provide loan of 120 billion rupees(just 20 billion rupees a year) but wait there was a bureaucratic problem in land acquisition...hence project cost went up delayed for 5 years purely due to incompetence of PML N

summary: despite 50% funding govt delayed project, now with 100% funding its delayed

2. tarbela dam:
WB decided to give 85% loan but well we were lucky, when tenders were done Chinese company bid less than that 85% WB was giving, hence, we actually saved 30% money and rolled over that too 5th extension which was now suppose to be 50-50
but yet project delayed initially due to bureaucratic hurdles
i am not even going to bring up 50M scandle

3. Bhasha dam
WB planely refused due to indian objection
so wapda came up with a plan in 2008 with 4-4-3-2-1 plan(4 AB, 4 govt, 3 loans, 2 supplier credit, 1 wapda own resources)
but govt said oh i dont have 400 billion rupees over 10 years(just 40 billion ruppes a year)
result:
AB walked away

4. jamsharoo coal project
AB decided to give away 500 M dollars but incompetence of current govt meant nothing happened


if you look at AB, WB rating we are always rated as extremely poor to poor
even chinese got very irritated with us but due to strong poltical push from chinese side, we were able to implement projects