Hatf-VIII Ra'ad II (ALCM) | Updates, News & Discussion

[amardeep mishra]

Um no thats not the case. Pakistan is advanced enough in the INS domain now to ensure strategic precision in a GPS-denied environment, and surgical precision with integrated GNSS corrections.

Hi @The Deterrent
Not much is known about "indigenous" pakistani research in the field of INS(I'm not talking about the algorithms but the hardware). Can you shed some light?
Also as I guess @JamD pointed out, filtering techniques might play some but not major role in increasing the range. In my opinion though, range can be extended if either somehow drag is reduced, or if they somehow get a highly efficient turbofan engine or if they go for all composite missile. Drag reduction might seem easy but it requires passing your model through wind tunnels a lot and wind tunnel experiments are really pain in the **** sometimes(at least in india)--I am sure such experiments in pakistan wouldnt be any comfortable. Second option requires pakistan to actually get a turbofan from china(which in turn used ukrainian expertise to design their own).
Speaking of INS and filters,I have personally implemented -
(a) Complementary filer-1st order
(b) Complimentary filter-2nd order and
(c) Kalman Filter
in python for simple MPU6050 as a hobby stuff. Here is the a real time graph plotted in python.

Although this is not from MPU6050 but from ADXL335. ADXL335 is notoriously sensitive to even small vibrations as you can see above(kindly note this is the result without any filtering). Some sort of high pass filter needed in order to smoothen the ADXL335 signal.
Now the reason why we need any kind of filtering is quite evident from my personal graph above-- accelerometer is jerky(yet doesnt drift),whereas gyro(rate gyro to be precise) is stable(yet it drifts over time). So in order to get a stable estimate we implement a filter-- one that combines the features of both HPF and LPF and the easiest, one could implement in either C or python happens to be a complementary filter. It gives fairly reasonable values in most of the regimes. For more info you can follow me on github

 

[The Deterrent]

Hi @The Deterrent
Not much is known about "indigenous" pakistani research in the field of INS(I'm not talking about the algorithms but the hardware). Can you shed some light?

Yeah sure.

There you go.

Also as I guess @JamD pointed out, filtering techniques might play some but not major role in increasing the range. In my opinion though, range can be extended if either somehow drag is reduced, or if they somehow get a highly efficient turbofan engine or if they go for all composite missile. Drag reduction might seem easy but it requires passing your model through wind tunnels a lot and wind tunnel experiments are really pain in the **** sometimes(at least in india)--I am sure such experiments in pakistan wouldnt be any comfortable. Second option requires pakistan to actually get a turbofan from china(which in turn used ukrainian expertise to design their own).

None of these have anything to do with the increase in range. For you (and other Indians for that matter) to understand how it was done, you need to first realize that Ra'ad was designed by Pakistan (although using OTS components and the conventional design methodologies). Its just that the first 'model' was pretty crude compared to the state-of-the-art systems of today.

 

[Awan68]

Height of ignorance and religious delusions

To you maybe....

 

[amardeep mishra]

None of these have anything to do with the increase in range. For you (and other Indians for that matter) to understand how it was done, you need to first realize that Ra'ad was designed by Pakistan (although using OTS components and the conventional design methodologies). Its just that the first 'model' was pretty crude compared to the state-of-the-art systems of today.

Hi @The Deterrent
They indeed are related to "increase" in range-
(1) Reduced Drag
(2) Reduced SFC(i.e highly efficient engines)
(3) Reduced weight
(4) Increase in fuel capacity.
I am sure you're aware of the equations that determine endurance and range of any aerial vehicle.
I am not really sure that Ra'ad was indeed designed by pakistan as there are ample evidences to suggest otherwise. However I will refrain to tread that path as I am sure a lot of 'not-so-learned' folks would jump at me for denigrating pakistani efforts(which by the way was never my intention!). People dont realize that I have same standards for our own weapons R&D. Unless and Untill I see the tests and research references I dont take our own statements seriously.
There is also no doubt that Ra'ad has evolved into one of the sophisticated missiles of pakistani arsenal(and I being someone working on 'some' of these systems envy it!). Now what makes Ra'ad particularly effective in indo-pak scenario is the fact that it can be launched by an aircraft and it can fly really low. This gives very very small time window for indian systems like akash,spyder,MRSAM to react. This however is changing gradually as India is spending generously on aerostat based radars or very low level radars to plug gaps.
In fact LRDE has in fact designed their own Aerostat based "look-down" radar.

 

[The Deterrent]

Hi @The Deterrent
They indeed are related to "increase" in range-
(1) Reduced Drag
(2) Reduced SFC(i.e highly efficient engines)
(3) Reduced weight
I am sure you're aware of the equations that determine endurance and range of any aerial vehicle.

My bad. Let me rephrase: None of these had anything to do with the increase in range of Ra'ad.

I am not really sure that Ra'ad was indeed designed by pakistan as there are ample evidences to suggest otherwise.

Ample evidences? Oh right, the same ones by twitter 'professionals'.

 

[amardeep mishra]

My bad. Let me rephrase: None of these had anything to do with the increase in range of Ra'ad.


Ample evidences? Oh right, the same ones by twitter 'professionals'.

I am not even on twitter my friend. And I was alluding to links with South Africa- I mean come on,Integration of such an advanced missile on an old mirage does ring some bells,when the ideal choice should have been JF-17!. Now i "really do not wish to go into" this debate because I am sure it will lead no where. Rest assured lets focus on range of Ra'ad as originally pointed out by JamD

 

[The Accountant]

Height of ignorance and religious delusions

Not exactly correct ...

I am not even on twitter my friend. And I was alluding to links with South Africa- I mean come on,Integration of such an advanced missile on an old mirage does ring some bells,when the ideal choice should have been JF-17!. Now i "really do not wish to go into" this debate because I am sure it will lead no where. Rest assured lets focus on range of Ra'ad as originally pointed out by JamD

First check the dates of first test of Raad and development cycle of thunder ...

Raad first test was done in 2007 whereas JF-17 block first squadron got inducted 2010 ... So you mean to say that Raad is not Pakistani because it was not tested on Pakistan's indigenous under development fighter aircraft program ... Interesting theory ... This proves how biased your opinions are and how ignorant you are ...

 

[The Deterrent]

I am not even on twitter my friend. And I was alluding to links with South Africa- I mean come on,Integration of such an advanced missile on an old mirage does ring some bells,when the ideal choice should have been JF-17!. Now i "really do not wish to go into" this debate because I am sure it will lead no where. Rest assured lets focus on range of Ra'ad as originally pointed out by JamD

And here we thought you were more rational.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Don't waste your time on this leach

Yeah sure.

There you go.

None of these have anything to do with the increase in range. For you (and other Indians for that matter) to understand how it was done, you need to first realize that Ra'ad was designed by Pakistan (although using OTS components and the conventional design methodologies). Its just that the first 'model' was pretty crude compared to the state-of-the-art systems of today.

Whoever thinks bangali's are our brothers is a moron

To you maybe....

 

[Awan68]

Don't waste your time on this leach



Whoever thinks bangali's are our brothers is a moron

No brothers in todays world, specially not those who sided with pagan india against muslim pakistan, i consider bangladesh to be a traitor to islam n wish they suffer under indias yoke for a thousand years, they deserve it...

 

[Sameer25]

is pakistan ever gonna develop something like the brahmos

 

[DarX]

is pakistan ever gonna develop something like the brahmos

Brahmos is a copy of the P-800 Onyx missile and is produced by a Russian-Indian joint venture. In any case, we don't need it as yet, as India cannot stop our Ra'ad and Babur cruise missiles with its air defense system.

 

[[--Leo--]]

are they going to test raad 2 ?any update?

 

[amardeep mishra]

And here we thought you were more rational.

Hi dear @The Deterrent
What has that got to do with being rational? I was not trying to denigrate anything--I was merely sounding a bit critical of Ra'ad which has ample amount of south african connection. But the reason why I am not debating it is simply because I am sure it will turn into a dirty mud slinging competition among people who probably wouldnt have worked on Aerial vehicles in any capacity.

 

[Sameer25]

is pakistan developing any icbms. i have heard rumors that there is a Tipu or Tahmoor ICBM i dont know if theyre true and what about slbm