Global Indian Navigation system on cards

[KEETARP]

Kinetic

Global Indian Navigation System is not coming Tomorrow , its in future.
You think our power projection as we grow stronger will be limited to Asia only . It might not be ambition but interests will collide in future.

You think next war will be for Border Dispute - nope

 

[KS]

I think the ROC(Region of Coverage) shown in Kinetic's post is the ideal for the first phase and from there we need to improve.

@Bagee:

Yeah it will be good if Israel can also contribute to the project and Indian in turn can share the services with it.

 

[Kinetic]

Kinetic

Global Indian Navigation System is not coming Tomorrow , its in future.
You think our power projection as we grow stronger will be limited to Asia only . It might not be ambition but interests will collide in future.

You think next war will be for Border Dispute - nope

They are saying after IRNSS is over they will start launching on GINS as IRNSS and GINS satellites will be same.

Its not about power projection but our 'area of interest'. We are not going to be a superpower with greatest resources, with limited resources we need proper utilization.

India doesn't have ambition like US to dominate the whole world so if India fight next war it will be on border dispute otherwise India will not go for direct war.

 

[Gene]

May be ISRO consider a part of IRNSS project for civilian usages in future....If it happens then i will be very proud to use our own navigation system...

How about nokia selling mobile phones in India saying it is IRNSS enabled !!!!!!

 

[falconfx]

I also have same idea we should extend the range of IRNSS than making it global. We are also partner of Russia for GLONASS which will get global coverage. We have also invested in Galileo.

GLONASS is for civilian sector which relies on NAVSTAR (GPS signals) for private sector navigation in the near term.

IRNSS is for military (a completely new system fully controlled by India) which is regional (India and encircling 2000 km around it) to make the military independent of foreign controlled GPS. It will be funded entirely by the Indian goverment and will be taken up by ISRO.

GINS is the next step after IRNSS satellites are launched by 2014, to launch additional satellites (around 24) for global navigation under Indian control. (This will be for ICBM targeting etc). GINS is still on the cards and is not approved yet.

 

[Kinetic]

GLONASS is for civilian sector which relies on NAVSTAR (GPS signals) for private sector navigation in the near term.

GLONASS is for both civilian and military, ie it has both civilian and military grade signals. Its not dependent on anything, its work just like NAVSTAR GPS works. Both are independent of each other and two different systems.

IRNSS is for military (a completely new system fully controlled by India) which is regional (India and encircling 2000 km around it) to make the military independent of foreign controlled GPS. It will be funded entirely by the Indian goverment and will be taken up by ISRO.

Again IRNSS is for both military and civilians. It will also have civilian and military grade signals just like GLONASS and GPS.

GINS is the next step after IRNSS satellites are launched by 2014, to launch additional satellites (around 24) for global navigation under Indian control. (This will be for ICBM targeting etc). GINS is still on the cards and is not approved yet.

After launching 7 satellites for IRNSS we don't need extra 24 but total 24, so we need 17 more satellite to covert IRNSS to GINS. GINS will have more applications than just ICBM navigation.

 

[Kinetic]

May be ISRO consider a part of IRNSS project for civilian usages in future....If it happens then i will be very proud to use our own navigation system...

How about nokia selling mobile phones in India saying it is IRNSS enabled !!!!!!

IRNSS will have huge military application just like GPS but civilian signal will be there.

military grade signal: high accuracy.
civilian grade signal: medium accuracy.

 

[falconfx]

GLONASS is for both civilian and military, ie it has both civilian and military grade signals. Its not dependent on anything, its work just like NAVSTAR GPS works. Both are independent of each other and two different systems.

Yes my bad, I miswrote GLONASS instead of GAGAN, since I was describing India's navigation systems roadmap.

Again IRNSS is for both military and civilians. It will also have civilian and military grade signals just like GLONASS and GPS.

IRNSS will be a fallback. The accuracy is 20 metres, which makes it unsuitable for civilian sector. For military, they will have to increase its accuracy too, so I'm unsure how much of a mainstream use it will be.

After launching 7 satellites for IRNSS we don't need extra 24 but total 24, so we need 17 more satellite to covert IRNSS to GINS. GINS will have more applications than just ICBM navigation.

I never said, an extra 24. I said around 24 satellites are needed for a global navigation system comparable to GPS and Galileo. And yes, GINS will have more applications than just ICBM navigation, hence the 'etc' in the end.

 

[Kinetic]

Yes my bad, I miswrote GLONASS instead of GAGAN, since I was describing India's navigation systems roadmap.

Since GAGAN means 'GPS Aided Geo Augmented Navigation' it will augment GPS signals and developed by ISRO for AAI, so what do you want to say here, sorry I can't get this! Why you mentioned GAGAN here?

IRNSS will be a fallback. The accuracy is 20 metres, which makes it unsuitable for civilian sector. For military, they will have to increase its accuracy too, so I'm unsure how much of a mainstream use it will be.

Correction : IRNSS's accuracy is 10 meters over India and adjacent not 20 meters. Don't know but military signals may be of higher accuracy.

I never said, an extra 24. I said around 24 satellites are needed for a global navigation system comparable to GPS and Galileo. And yes, GINS will have more applications than just ICBM navigation, hence the 'etc' in the end.

What one will understand from this, as you said, "to launch additional satellites (around 24) for global navigation".

 

[Raje amar]

Lets See
Agni3 and Agni5 are slated to be 5K range and AgniV even 5+ , how do you plan to Guide them ????? if you want only 5K coverage .
Forget about Global Reach UAV which India will get in Future and Long Range Fighters


Exactly the same thing i thought about , reading that comment

Well i already said we must be a part of Russian system. over & above if we need to look beyond 5000km we can always use the Russian satellites. but the satellites looking in India & around it must be exclusively controllede by India.

 

[falconfx]

Since GAGAN means 'GPS Aided Geo Augmented Navigation' it will augment GPS signals and developed by ISRO for AAI, so what do you want to say here, sorry I can't get this! Why you mentioned GAGAN here?

I mentioned GAGAN, because its the first stage of navigation support in India's navigation roadmap. It will work with NAVSTAR GPS to provide commercial navigation within India in Stage 1. I wrote GLONASS when I wanted to say GAGAN.

Correction : IRNSS's accuracy is 10 meters over India and adjacent not 20 meters. Don't know but military signals may be of higher accuracy.

Wrong. Look at slide 6 of the official presentation below.
http://www.aprsaf.org/data/aprsaf15_data/csawg/CSAWG_6b.pdf

What one will understand from this, as you said, "to launch additional satellites (around 24) for global navigation".

One should understand: Additional satellites are required to convert IRNSS into GINS, which will require additional satellites (around 24 in total).

 

[sudhir007]

There is no relation between GLONASS and IRNSS. GLONASS satellites will be launched by India while IRNSS is entirely Indian programme. GINS is new.

Hi, Kinetic i think GLONASS is Russian GPS and russia will allow us to use their GPS(GLONASS) civil or military purpose. I dnt think in GLONASS there any contribution by any Indian Agency or ISRO. I think the main problem is this that we can not trust in USA for using their GPS system for military use u can see last yr in Jan when we r test fire Brahmos in the last miniute they switch off their GPS and the missile test was fail if this situation come at real war we are going to handicap. From that i can read that russia provide us their GPS for military purpose and also they want to join us in the GLONASS program.

 

[Dron.ru]

To reduce the cost we can lunch dual-purpose satellites (GLONASS + IRNSS). India can focus on the South-East Asia and control the satellites of these orbits, and Russia will control all the other satellites. Thus, GLONASS and IRNSS will cover entire world and our countries will have direct control of the satellites that serving the most important regions for themselves.

 

[falconfx]

To reduce the cost we can lunch dual-purpose satellites (GLONASS + IRNSS). India can focus on the South-East Asia and control the satellites of these orbits, and Russia will control all the other satellites. Thus, GLONASS and IRNSS will cover entire world and our countries will have direct control of the satellites that serving the most important regions for themselves.

Who owns the kill switch in that case? IRNSS is to achieve independent operations in case GPS/Galileo/GLONASS denies access.

 

[Dron.ru]

Who owns the kill switch in that case?

That, who controls the satellites, the projection of the orbit which lies in this area. In Southeast Asia it will be Indian Mission Control Center (MCC). In fact, it will be Indian satellites.

Under the control I mean the ownership of digital access codes to each individual satellite.