Geo TV sues ISI for defamation; Pak media regulator suspends channel for 15 days

[Secur]

Its funny when people rant about the morals of intelligence agencies National interest is the only moral and driving force within any secret agency like ISI.

Actually in this particular case , its hypocritic . Acting dumb as to what wonders the intelligence agencies around the world under the facade of Govt's authorization , approval and oversight .

 

[VCheng]

Remind me , what exactly was NSA accused of , recently since well I see the " citizen's private life being nobody's concern " here ?

Oh, please do tell, who did NSA blackmail or threw in a ditch after torturing them to death?

 

[slapshot]

Oh, please do tell, who did NSA blackmail or threw in a ditch after torturing them to death?

Do you have a list to cross check

 

[Secur]

Oh, please do tell, who did NSA blackmail or threw in a ditch after torturing them to death?

A civilian's private life was nobody's concern , right ?

These court-approved policies allow the NSA to:

• keep data that could potentially contain details of U.S. persons for up to five years;
• retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;
• preserve "foreign intelligence information" contained within attorney–client communications; and
• access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine" or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the U.S., for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.

For example, Der Spiegel revealed how the German Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) transfers "massive amounts of intercepted data to the NSA",[6] while Sveriges Television revealed the National Defence Radio Establishment (FRA) provided the NSA with data from its cable collection, under a secret treaty signed in 1954 for bilateral cooperation on surveillance.[7] Other security and intelligence agencies involved in the practice of global surveillance include those in Australia (ASD), Britain (GCHQ), Canada (CSEC), Denmark (PET), France (DGSE), Germany (BND), Italy (AISE), the Netherlands (AIVD), Norway (NIS), Spain (CNI), Switzerland (NDB), as well as Israel (ISNU), which receives raw, unfiltered data of U.S. citizens that is shared by the NSA

The NSA gained massive amounts of information captured from the monitored data traffic in Europe. For example in December 2013 the NSA gathered on an average day metadata from some 15 million telephone connections and 10 million Internet datasets. The NSA also monitored the European Commission in Brussels and monitored EU diplomatic Facilities in Washington and at the United Nations by placing bugs in offices as well as infiltrating computer networks.

The NSA is not just intercepting the communications of Americans who are in direct contact with foreigners targeted overseas, but also searching the contents of vast amounts of e-mail and text communications into and out of the country by Americans who mention information about foreigners under surveillance .The NSA has built a surveillance network that has the capacity to reach roughly 75% of all U.S. Internet traffic.U.S. Law-enforcement agencies use tools used by computer hackers to gather information on suspects.An internal NSA audit from May 2012 identified 2776 incidents i.e. violations of the rules or court orders for surveillance of Americans and foreign targets in the U.S. in the period from April 2011 through March 2012, while U.S. officials stressed that any mistakes are not intentional.

The Guardian and the New York Times reported on secret documents leaked by Snowden showing that the NSA has been in "collaboration with technology companies" as part of "an aggressive, multipronged effort" to weaken the encryption used in commercial software, and the GCHQ has a team dedicated to cracking "Hotmail, Google, Yahoo and Facebook" traffic .

Towards the end of April, Edward Snowden said that the United States surveillance agencies spy on Americans more than anyone else in the world, contrary to anything that has been said by the government up until this pointIn its first assessment of these disclosures, The Pentagon concluded that Snowden committed the biggest "theft" of U.S. secrets in the history of the United States.[30] Sir David Omand, a former director of the GCHQ, described Snowden's disclosure as the "most catastrophic loss to British intelligence ever".

Where exactly is this right derived from , even when the fourth amendment is present in your constitution ? What controls do you even speak of ? What morals do you seek ? What exactly is so charming about acting naive and playing dumb ?

 

[VCheng]

Where exactly is this right derived from , even when the fourth amendment is present in your constitution ? What controls do you even speak of ? What morals do you seek ? What exactly is so charming about acting naive and playing dumb ?

And all of that led to a public discussion, with free media coverage without any General's chaddis getting in a twist asking for a ban on a channel.

Oh, and it resulted in this:

The USA FREEDOM Act - Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner

Uniting and Strengthening America by Fulfilling Rights and Ending Eavesdropping, Dragnet Collection, and Online Monitoring Act H.R. 3361/ S. 1599

Purpose: To rein in the dragnet collection of data by the National Security Agency (NSA) and other government agencies, increase transparency of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), provide businesses the ability to release information regarding FISA requests, and create an independent constitutional advocate to argue cases before the FISC.

End bulk collection of Americans’ communications records
• The USA Freedom Act ends bulk collection under Section 215 of the Patriot Act.
• The bill would strengthen the prohibition on "reverse targeting" of Americans—that is, targeting a foreigner with the goal of obtaining communications involving an American.
• The bill requires the government to more aggressively filter and discard information about Americans accidentally collected through PRISM and related programs.

Reform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court
• The USA Freedom Act creates an Office of the Special Advocate (OSA) tasked with promoting privacy interests before the FISA court’s closed proceedings. The OSA will have the authority to appeal decisions of the FISA court.
• The bill creates new and more robust reporting requirements to ensure that Congress is aware of actions by the FISC and intelligence community as a whole.
• The bill would grant the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board subpoena authority to investigate issues related to privacy and national security.

Increase Transparency
• The USA Freedom Act would end secret laws by requiring the Attorney General to publicly disclose all FISC decisions issued after July 10, 2003 that contain a significant construction or interpretation of law.
• Under the bill, Internet and telecom companies would be allowed to publicly report an estimate of (1) the number of FISA orders and national security letters received, (2) the number of such orders and letters complied with, and (3) the number of users or accounts on whom information was demanded under the orders and letters.
• The bill would require the government to make annual or semiannual public reports estimating the total number of individuals and U.S. persons that were subject to FISA orders authorizing electronic surveillance, pen/trap devices, and access to business records.

National Security Letters
• The USA Freedom Act adopts a single standard for Section 215 and NSL protection to ensure the Administration doesn’t use different authorities to support bulk collection. It also adds a sunset date to NSLs requiring that Congress reauthorize the government’s authority thereby ensuring proper congressional review.

See how the Rule of Law works for agencies that must bow to it, not like the ISI, which is totally lawless and accountable to no one. But please feel free to feign outrage at others. Aasman ka thooka apnay munh par!

 

[Secur]

And all of that led to a public discussion, with free media coverage without any General's chaddis getting in a twist asking for a ban on a channel.

How and why did it happen in the first place even though the fourth Amendment is present in Eagle's constitutions - the torch bearers of democracy and civil liberties in the entire world ? Since of course just two posts ago , a citizen's private life was nobody's concern , what exactly has been happening in the U.S. then which you either were unaware of or deliberately omitted to find a fault with a single intelligence agency ? Under whose authorization did it begin ? Was it the Congress itself again authorizing , approving and then overseeing the whole process as the American's privacy was being violated through mass surveillance programs and has the wool again pulled on the American's eyes just like the covert MK ULTRA program earlier ? Who's there to ensure that it isn't happening now since well nobody knew it was happening until a person defected ? Have the loopholes been closed or are we happy because just a " bill has been passed " again ?

Because the House version was weakened by lawmakers loyal to the intelligence establishment it lost support of important House Judiciaty members like Republicans Darrell Issa, Ted Poe and Raul Labrador and Democrat Zoe Lofgren who previously voted for the act. "The result is a bill that will actually not end bulk collection, regrettably," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren who voted against the bill. The act would shift responsibility for retaining telephonic metadata from the government to telephone companies. Providers like AT&T and Verizon would be required to maintain the records and let the NSA search them in terrorism investigations when the agency obtains a judicial order or in certain emergency situations.

The Guardian wrote "civil libertarians on the Judiciary Committee had to compromise in order to gain support for the act. Significantly, the government will still be able to collect phone data on Americans, pending a judge’s individualized order based on 'reasonable articulable suspicion' – a standard preferred by the NSA – of wrongdoing, and can collect call records two degrees or 'hops' of separation from the individual suspected".

According to Deputy Attorney General James Cole, even if the Freedom Act becomes law, the NSA could continue its bulk collection of American's phone records. He explained that "it's going to depend on how the [FISA] court interprets any number of the provisions" contained within the legislation. Jennifer Granick, Director of Civil Liberties at Stanford Law School, stated: The Administration and the intelligence community believe they can do whatever they want, regardless of the laws Congress passes, so long they can convince one of the judges appointed to the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) to agree. This isn't the rule of law. This is a coup d'etat.

Senator Ron Whyden stated he was "gravely concerned that the changes that have been made to the House version of this bill have watered it down so far that it fails to protect Americans from suspicionless mass surveillance."[32] Major U.S. tch firms like Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and Twitter joined together in the Reform Government Surveillance coalition which called the House version a move in the wrong direction. The Reform Government Surveillance “The latest draft opens up an unacceptable loophole that could enable the bulk collection of Internet users’ data … While it makes important progress, we cannot support this bill as currently drafted and urge Congress to close this loophole to ensure meaningful reform.Mark Jaycox, a legislative analyst with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said: “The bill is littered with loopholes. The problem right now, especially after multiple revisions, is that it doesn’t effectively end mass surveillance.

See how the Rule of Law works for agencies that must bow to it, not like the ISI, which is totally lawless and accountable to no one. But please feel free to feign outrage at others. Aasman ka thooka apnay munh par!

Illegal and Legal ! Moral and Immoral ! Heroes and Villains ! Do I see a little kid here , trying to make sense of the world through his " right and wrong " prism and thinking the world's either black or white ? Some new programs will be created and run with impunity until they are disclosed or not and then to satisfy the public , a new bill would be passed banning some of its components , you know the drill right ?

P.S No this isn't outrage , very far from it . I understand well how an intelligence agency is supposed to function and functions in the real world , the ideal world is of course littered with the " rule of law " , " authority and control " and " firmly under the Govt " delusions

 

[VCheng]

No this isn't outrage , very far from it . I understand well how an intelligence agency is supposed to function and functions in the real world , the ideal world is of course littered with the " rule of law " , " authority and control " and " firmly under the Govt " delusions

Well, how well is it working out fer ya'all over there in Pakistan in the real world?

 

[FunkyGen]

A step in the right direction. No one is above the law. Not even ISI.

This country is not for liberals mate, let's take a hike

 

[Secur]

Well, how well is it working out fer ya'all over there in Pakistan in the real world?

I was hoping for a better defense put for nonsensical " street criminals " , " thugs " and " Sicily mafias " arguments before them , but well you can continue " preaching " and trying to make others believe that an intelligence agency should stop gathering intelligence and interfering in " matters " and start issuing warrants/subpoenas/authority letters before they take action . I agree in a ideal world , that might be true , the problem is that we do not live in one

 

[VCheng]

I was hoping for a better defense put for nonsensical arguments before them , but well you can continue " preaching " and trying to make others believe that an intelligence agency should stop interfering in " matters " and start issuing warrants/subpoenas/authority letters before they take action . I agree in a ideal world , that might be true , the problem is that we do not live in one

Actually, I would have no problem if the ISI actually delivered. The evidence is mounting about failures in a steady fashion. Sure, it can be claimed that things would be a lot worse if the ISI were not there, but the fact remains that such claims cannot be taken at face value anymore. Terrorists are striking with increasing impunity, and at will, while ISI is more concerned with censoring media. What the ISI nurtured in FATA is now let loose over the entire country. What the ISI is doing in Baluchistan will only add to the fire.

We can either look the other way or figure out a way to stop this self-defeating behavior.

 

[Secur]

Just like mafia thugs in old Sicily.

No , it was way way worse .

Project MKUltra — sometimes referred to as the CIA's mind control program — is the code name of a U.S. government human research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans. Organized through the Scientific Intelligence Division of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the project coordinated with the Special Operations Division of the U.S. Army's Chemical Corps. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973 . The program engaged in many illegal activities; in particular it used unwitting U.S. and Canadian citizens as its test subjects, which led to controversy regarding its legitimacy. MKUltra used numerous methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture. The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies. The CIA operated through these institutions using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA's involvement

The U.S. General Accounting Office issued a report on September 28, 1984, which stated that between 1940 and 1974, DOD and other national security agencies studied thousands of human subjects in tests and experiments involving hazardous substances. Working with the CIA, the Department of Defense gave hallucinogenic drugs to thousands of "volunteer" soldiers in the 1950s and 1960s. In addition to LSD, the Army also tested quinuclidinyl benzilate, a hallucinogen code-named BZ. (Note 37) Many of these tests were conducted under the so-called MKULTRA program, established to counter perceived Soviet and Chinese advances in brainwashing techniques. Between 1953 and 1964, the program consisted of 149 projects involving drug testing and other studies on unwitting human subjects.

On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and experimentation" program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign." Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to "unwitting subjects in social situations." At least one death, that of Dr. Olson, resulted from these activities. The Agency itself acknowledged that these tests made little scientific sense. The agents doing the monitoring were not qualified scientific observers.

Where exactly was this right to test on unwilling and uninformed human subjects derived from since well you have been looking for " logic(s) " and " rule of law " and " civilian oversight " all night ?

 

[VCheng]

Neither are we looking the other way nor engaged in self-defeating behavior on the level that actually runs things , the thought pattern of the masses are of course another problem resulting from decades of promotion of extremist ideology . What is incomprehensible and downright hypocritic is the way that " some people " actually like to portray things , as if the intelligence agency in question has gone rogue , nothing could be farther than truth .

How can you say "problem resulting from decades of promotion of extremist ideology" and then claim that the agency that did all this promotion has not gone rogue? The truth is that the ISI has for decades taken upon itself to pursue an agenda that simply does not serve national interests of Pakistan, and that, by definition, makes it the rogue agency out of control that it is today. Don't agree with me? Please take a good look at where Pakistan is heading.

 

[Secur]

Actually, I would have no problem if the ISI actually delivered. The evidence is mounting about failures in a steady fashion. Sure, it can be claimed that things would be a lot worse if the ISI were not there, but the fact remains that such claims cannot be taken at face value anymore. Terrorists are striking with increasing impunity, and at will, while ISI is more concerned with censoring media. What the ISI nurtured in FATA is now let loose over the entire country. What the ISI is doing in Baluchistan will only add to the fire.

We can either look the other way or figure out a way to stop this self-defeating behavior.

Neither are we looking the other way nor engaged in self-defeating behavior on the level that actually runs things , the thought pattern of the masses are of course another problem resulting from decades of promotion of extremist ideology . What is incomprehensible and downright hypocritic is the way that " some people " actually like to portray things , as if the intelligence agency in question has gone rogue , nothing could be farther than truth .

 

[Secur]

How can you say "problem resulting from decades of promotion of extremist ideology" and then claim that the agency that did all this promotion has not gone rogue? The truth is that the ISI has for decades taken upon itself to pursue an agenda that simply does not serve national interests of Pakistan, and that, by definition, makes it the rogue agency out of control that it is today. Don't agree with me? Please take a good look at where Pakistan is heading.

Prime detective of the Govt of Pakistan and its stakeholders since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan first declared then undeclared , gone rogue has different meanings .

 

[VCheng]

Prime detective of the Govt of Pakistan and its stakeholders since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan first declared then undeclared , gone rogue has different meanings .

Interesting how you claim the Government of Pakistan to be incharge of this policy, as if the Army brass ever listen to what the government says!