France - Pakistan , Avionics & possibly Plane deal revival, Post cancellation of MRCA

[Stephen Cohen]

@Bilal Khan 777

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/02/chin-f21.html

http://www.udel.edu/globalagenda/2005/student/readings/euro-china-arms-sales.html

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/mar/21/20050321-090719-9786r/

We are talking different deals. RC400 and Mica were never cleared for JF17, however, the avionics package for Block II, including full french cockpit was cleared by DGA and then adopted for Mirage 2000. My information does not come from media.

As long as China is involved in JF 17 ; getting Western avionics will be very difficult

That is because of the Arms embargo on China

And given the Chinese abilities in reverse engineering ;
those Western avionics will then soon appear on J 10 and J 11

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

@Bilal Khan 777

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/02/chin-f21.html

http://www.udel.edu/globalagenda/2005/student/readings/euro-china-arms-sales.html

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/mar/21/20050321-090719-9786r/



As long as China is involved in JF 17 ; getting Western avionics will be very difficult

That is because of the Arms embargo on China

And Chinese abilities in reverse engineering ;
those Western avionics will then soon appear on J 10 and J 11

Obviously you are out of the loop, quoting articles from 7 years ago.
There are multiple western avionics already flying on JF17, and others signed up and in qualification.
PAF manages it extremely well, where the kit is not accessed by the Chinese. Essentially, JF17 and FC-1 are different aircraft, and there are no JF17s in China.

 

[wiseone2]

The JF17 avionics deal, being fronted by ATE, was canceled due to the Mirage 2000 upgrade deal and under Indian pressure. Don't drag the americans into something they have no control of.

There is no French avionics for JF17 on the offer, and none will be considered. PAF has come a long way since the previous disasters, and has many options on the table.

The JF-17 avionics was cancelled due to American pressure. It puts PAF at the mercy of Uncle Sam for modern combat aircraft. It is not like the French are going to make much $$$ selling avionics to Pakistan

 

[Basel]

I don't know why people are looking toward France for JF-17 avionics while they are not willing to sale military equipment due to India factor.

People are totally ignoring the fact that other countries are willing to sale equipment to Pakistan other than China like SA, Turkey, Russia, Italy, UK etc. Why we are looking to the closed door when there are several open doors?

Those who suggested route to purchase Rafale in small trenches with JF17 avionics deal forget its not gonna happen due to sale option to India but that route can be taken with EFT or even if necessary Russia with Su-35 or Mig-35 (Customize for PAF).

 

[_NOBODY_]

I don't know why people are looking toward France for JF-17 avionics while they are not willing to sale military equipment due to India factor.

People are totally ignoring the fact that other countries are willing to sale equipment to Pakistan other than China like SA, Turkey, Russia, Italy, UK etc. Why we are looking to the closed door when there are several open doors?

Those who suggested route to purchase Rafale in small trenches with JF17 avionics deal forget its not gonna happen due to sale option to India but that route can be taken with EFT or even if necessary Russia with Su-35 or Mig-35 (Customize for PAF).

That is what I had been saying over and over again. Selex has very good relationship with Pakistan plus they are very advance in the field of avionics. Selex is very cheap as compare to French and yet they offer same level of technology.
@The Eagle @Quwa @Horus @Oscar @Windjammer

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

That is what I had been saying over and over again. Selex has very good relationship with Pakistan plus they are very advance in the field of avionics. Selex is very cheap as compare to French and yet they offer same level of technology.
@The Eagle @Quwa @Horus @Oscar @Windjammer

Selex is well entrenched in Pakistan, but don't you feel they are not being considered because 1) They don't have what PAF wants and 2) if they offer a development solution, PAF refuses?

 

[Basel]

Selex is well entrenched in Pakistan, but don't you feel they are not being considered because 1) They don't have what PAF wants and 2) if they offer a development solution, PAF refuses?

PAF have preciously worked with SELEX for Customize solution for F-7s & M-3s same can be done again. Gripen NG's Raven AESA type solution can be very good to face posing threats.

But there can be other option for engine and avionics if Pakistan take small trenches purchase (upto 36 birds at least) route of EFT with its engine and avionics coming to JF-17.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

PAF have preciously worked with SELEX for Customize solution for F-7s & M-3s same can be done again. Gripen NG's Raven AESA type solution can be very good to face posing threats.

But there can be other option for engine and avionics if Pakistan take small trenches purchase (upto 36 birds at least) route of EFT with its engine and avionics coming to JF-17.

That would remove Selex, and bring BAE systems to the forefront. Selex portion would be AESA and EW, which they already don't have permission to export in the configuration proven on Typhoon.

 

[Tank131]

Selex has by far and away the most experience with AESA in europe. If pakistan doesnt go with them, it wont be because what they are offering is a new radar (development) but because they are offering something subpar which would be inferior to a chinese solution. The chinese have been rumored to have acquired and reverse engineered the elta elm 2052. If this is true, that would potentially be a serious challenge for selex to overcome without putting their very best foot forward, so if they really want to the contract they will likely deliver something as good if not better than the Raven ES-05 along with an integrated ew suite including a DRFM like britecloud.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Selex has by far and away the most experience with AESA in europe. If pakistan doesnt go with them, it wont be because what they are offering is a new radar (development) but because they are offering something subpar which would be inferior to a chinese solution. The chinese have been rumored to have acquired and reverse engineered the elta elm 2052. If this is true, that would potentially be a serious challenge for selex to overcome without putting their very best foot forward, so if they really want to the contract they will likely deliver something as good if not better than the Raven ES-05 along with an integrated ew suite including a DRFM like britecloud.

You are closer to the truth. The JF17 AESA would likely be a in-service Chinese system, with integrated EW customised by PAF R&D wings.

 

[The Eagle]

That is what I had been saying over and over again. Selex has very good relationship with Pakistan plus they are very advance in the field of avionics. Selex is very cheap as compare to French and yet they offer same level of technology.
@The Eagle @Quwa @Horus @Oscar @Windjammer

IMO, most probably it is going to be Chinese with respect to recent development and furthermore, if it has to be other than China, I would like to see PAK-Italy venture as Italy being experienced and we have good relations. Though, depending upon relations based, Turkey indeed is preferred but afraid of Western/US involvement/strings yet an independent program would be highly appreciated as no doubt, Turkey is advancing in this filed as well.

 

[_NOBODY_]

IMO, most probably it is going to be Chinese with respect to recent development and furthermore, if it has to be other than China, I would like to see PAK-Italy venture as Italy being experienced and we have good relations. Though, depending upon relations based, Turkey indeed is preferred but afraid of Western/US involvement/strings yet an independent program would be highly appreciated as no doubt, Turkey is advancing in this filed as well.

With all due respect China and Italy are far ahead of Turkey in the field of avionics.

 

[The Eagle]

With all due respect China and Italy are far ahead of Turkey in the field of avionics.

No problem...

I merely stated as per development and advancing of Turkey however, looks like Chinese Avionics are to be integrated. IMO.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Selex has by far and away the most experience with AESA in europe. If pakistan doesnt go with them, it wont be because what they are offering is a new radar (development) but because they are offering something subpar which would be inferior to a chinese solution. The chinese have been rumored to have acquired and reverse engineered the elta elm 2052. If this is true, that would potentially be a serious challenge for selex to overcome without putting their very best foot forward, so if they really want to the contract they will likely deliver something as good if not better than the Raven ES-05 along with an integrated ew suite including a DRFM like britecloud.

Sir can you compare Raven ES-05 with Vixen1000E ?

 

[Quwa]

Selex has by far and away the most experience with AESA in europe. If pakistan doesnt go with them, it wont be because what they are offering is a new radar (development) but because they are offering something subpar which would be inferior to a chinese solution. The chinese have been rumored to have acquired and reverse engineered the elta elm 2052. If this is true, that would potentially be a serious challenge for selex to overcome without putting their very best foot forward, so if they really want to the contract they will likely deliver something as good if not better than the Raven ES-05 along with an integrated ew suite including a DRFM like britecloud.

That would be Beijing A-Star. PAF prefers working with NRIET, which develops and produces AESA radars for the PLAAF. I'd be curious to see how far we are from GaN based AESA radars in China, having Block-III equipped with that from the onset would be really interesting.