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Forget world domination, India won’t catch up with China any time soon

I think a reasonable comparison may be made by simply asking people are you happy and contented. There is no reason to believe most Chinese are unhappy because China is an "authoritarian, single party" state. For Mr. Chin or Mrs. Wang, what matters is, can they afford the rent, food, school for the child, healthcare if needed and a general sense of peace and security. Highfalutin ideas like 'rights' don't bother most people.

At the outset -Their country, their rules. Therefore, what goes on within another nation should be of no concern to another.

However, since a thread has been created here by the CCP & in response to your remark, how does one presuppose that rent, food,school ( state run), etc are all that Mr Chin or Mrs Wang and their children are looking for ? These aren't all the aspirations a human has which in any case change with time & circumstance.

Moreover, how do they give feedback on if they are happy or not if they have no voice in public or the only agency they can speak to is a Govt one belonging to a single party where dissent is not an option?

Have a great day
 
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At the outset -Their country, their rules. Therefore, what goes on within another nation should be of no concern to another.
True; But no harm in learning how good different political systems are. Nobody is trying to interfere, just observe.
However, since a thread has been created here by the CCP & in response to your remark, how does one presuppose that rent, food,school ( state run), etc are all that Mr Chin or Mrs Wang and their children are looking for ? These aren't all the aspirations a human has which in any case change with time & circumstance.

Moreover, how do they give feedback on if they are happy or not if they have no voice in public or the only agency they can speak to is a Govt one belonging to a single party where dissent is not an option?
China is not such a panopticon that people who visit the place can't see it themselves or just talk to ordinary people. Plenty of foreigners live in China now, you know that right? Many can even read, write and speak Mandarin well. Also, many from China travel to foreign countries, many even immigrate. I think we have a few millions in North America. Surely, they don't hesitate to talk freely about China, warts and all.
 
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True; But no harm in learning how good different political systems are. Nobody is trying to interfere, just observe.

China is not such a panopticon that people who visit the place can't see it themselves or just talk to ordinary people. Plenty of foreigners live in China now, you know that right? Many can even read, write and speak Mandarin well. Also, many from China travel to foreign countries, many even immigrate. I think we have a few millions in North America. Surely, they don't hesitate to talk freely about China, warts and all.
I have been there over 15 times. Often for months. I write from personal experience. HK is a small example of how dissent is handled.

Yet, their country, their rules..
 
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I have been there over 15 times. Often for months. I write from personal experience. HK is a small example of how dissent is handled.

Yet, their country, their rules..
"How dissent is handled" is not equal to how happy and contented the people are.
Reality is most people don't dissent. Assent is the default in East Asia.
 
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The Chinese aimed for sustainability. The one-child policy saved them from destruction. India is still growing and extremely poor.

No sustainability.
Not really

They should have simply encouraged people to immigrate to other countries and maintain a 2~ birth rate that way

Instead they decided to do this stupid rule and no one wanted females so they aborted once they found out they aren't males and now they lack women.

Also it will face population collapse sooner or later due to that policy.
 
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Last year, as Prime Minister Narendra Modi celebrated 75 years of India’s independence from British rule, he called on the nation to “dominate the world”. Earlier this week, once again at the Red Fort, he evoked “Amrit Kaal” – a crucial era when the gates of opportunity open.

His “reform, perform, transform” mantra involves dreaming big. He was possibly dreaming of those halcyon days up to 1870 when India and China counted as the world’s two largest and most powerful economies.
But a dream does not make a plan. And in the nine years since Modi came to power, his plans to propel India to the top table of the world’s most powerful economies remain largely that – plans.

Harvard University’s Graham Allison reminded us in a recent Foreign Policy report that about a decade ago, the late Singapore leader Lee Kwan Yew had said India would never catch up with China and would always remain “the country of the future”. Lee said: “Do not talk about India and China in the same breath” – throwing the gauntlet down to those who see India biting at China’s heels and cheer India on in hopes of hobbling China’s ascent.

To be fair to Modi, his government’s economic performance is respectable after decades of stagnation and disappointment. India’s gross domestic product has grown by about 6 per cent every year on average since 2014, reaching an all-time high of 9.1 per cent last year – impressive in light of the upheavals of the Covid-19 pandemic and recession in many parts of the world.


But a wide range of structural reforms are needed if India is to escape the shackles of its economic past. These include the grip of caste, bureaucratic friction, impenetrable tax rules, still-chronic protection of local business magnates and import tariffs that are among the world’s highest.

Any country rising from such a low base must recognise that it will take many decades to achieve anything the late Lee would regard as parity with China – and that this is nothing to be ashamed of. Goldman Sachs predicted last month that by 2075, China would become the world’s largest economy (US$57 trillion), with India (at US$52.5 trillion) overtaking the US (at US$51.5 trillion).

Columbia University’s Arvind Panagariya has similar projections, calculating recently in Time magazine that if India’s real GDP grew at 8 per cent a year into the 2040s and 5 per cent after that, and if the US continues to grow on average by 2 per cent a year, India would overtake the US in 2073.

These are big “ifs”, even for those brave enough to make forecasts a half-century away. And huge bodies of data point India towards a more humdrum trajectory. According to Allison in Foreign Policy, back in 2000, China and India had economies worth less than US$2 trillion each. It took China five years to pass the mark and India 14 years. Last year, India’s economy was worth US$3.4 trillion – a fraction of China’s US$18.3 trillion.


It will take many years of stellar economic growth for India to begin matching China in economic importance, and no amount of miraculous thinking or “China plus one” investment is likely to accelerate that.

Also, many other important economic indicators remain problematic. India accounted for about 1 per cent of global manufacturing in 2000, compared with 7 per cent for China. By last year, India’s share had grown to 3 per cent against China’s 31 per cent. In 2000, India accounted for just 1 per cent of the world’s exports, and China 2 per cent. By last year, China accounted for 15 per cent of global exports against India’s share of 2 per cent.

World’s largest population: why it could be a headache for India

India enthusiasts celebrate the youthfulness of India’s population, but ignore the reality that this is a problem rather than an advantage when they are poorly educated or even illiterate. To accommodate them, India must produce an estimated 90 million new jobs before 2030.

Allison reminds us that China produces twice as many STEM-qualified (in science, technology, engineering and mathematics) graduates as India, spends almost three times the percentage of its GDP on research and development, and produces 65 per cent of the world’s artificial intelligence patents (vs India’s 3 per cent).

As Bloomberg noted in April: “India is far behind China in key aspects important for manufacturing that include infrastructure, bureaucracy, attention to detail and even a sense of urgency.”

Supporters of India in search of a “hobble China” narrative have been encouraged by companies such as Apple and its main Taiwanese manufacturer Foxconn, which have made tentative steps to build investments in India, but ignore the challenges they have faced, and the reality that China remains their main manufacturing base.​


They have ignored the withdrawals of companies like the Royal Bank of Scotland, Harley-Davidson and Citibank, and the many other companies with plans on hold. They have tended to celebrate the deliberate obstacles to prospective investment in China, even where China is a natural partner and the benefit of collaboration is huge.

Rather than harbouring dreams of dominating the world, India’s policymakers would benefit us all by opening up their economy and recognising that even if India does not surpass China, it can still be a huge driver in the global economy. China and India together account for one third of the world’s population, one third of the global consumer class, and a quarter of all consumer spending in purchasing power parity terms.

The 21st century may not be India’s century, but it is almost certainly Asia’s. Washington needs to come to terms with that, and perhaps New Delhi does too.



india can only lead donkeys to a picnic
 
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Not really

They should have simply encouraged people to immigrate to other countries and maintain a 2~ birth rate that way

Instead they decided to do this stupid rule and no one wanted females so they aborted once they found out they aren't males and now they lack women.

Also it will face population collapse sooner or later due to that policy.
PRC's natural carrying capacity is about 300 million. They are far from 'population collapse'. May they will take 200 years to get down to that figure. By then, robots would have replaced humans.
 
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For those who have been to China, it takes very little time to realise the gigantic advantages and gigantic shortcomings of the Chinese people.

Let’s talk about the positives. They have incredible manufacturing, great business sense, and a superb attention to quality. Yes quality - at the right price. Pay the right price and you can buy world class products in China. But pay peanuts (which is what Indian traders mostly do when importing from China) and you all get crap, and there is a market for that too.

However, there’s no point comparing. India should definitely aspire to be like China in some ways, and China can learn a lot from India.

For those saying India is delusional, kiya look at the incredible structural progress we have made. I’ll note a few

1. Land reforms - in the 50s and 70s we transferred land to the poor and broke the back of the Zamidars. It was an incredible achievement. Had Pakistan followed the same path, it would have transformed the nation.

2. Move from socialism to encouraging the private sector to the point where we have a defined global niche in certain areas.

3. Unleashing the country’s entrepreneurial instincts and transforming the national landscape.

4. Maintaining the democratic process - people may disagree but the reality is that our democracy, while under threat, is still functioning.

I could list many others, but my point is that we have had huge accomplishments and are on the path to progress.

Remember what India was like three decades ago and think on what it is today. Give us 40 more years like this and we may not be a global power, but we will be a world class nation.

We don’t have to compete or catch up with China. That’s a foolish goal. We just have to continue to improve on our own way.
 
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PRC's natural carrying capacity is about 300 million. They are far from 'population collapse'. May they will take 200 years to get down to that figure. By then, robots would have replaced humans.
You don't understand.

Merely a population decline is bad. You don't have to drop down to 300 million to start experiencing it.

I'm talking about an economic viewpoint.
For example, if China loses 1 million people per year, that means there's going to be a lot of empty houses accumulating, and at some point there'll be more houses to buy than people that look for new houses, and that will collapse the housing prices. You might have occupations that lack workforce. Aging population will strain your healthcare services and become a burden on the economy.

With healthy population growth, there's a high ratio between tax positive young, working people and tax negative, unemployed elderly people.
 
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You don't understand.

Merely a population decline is bad. You don't have to drop down to 300 million to start experiencing it.

I'm talking about an economic viewpoint.
For example, if China loses 1 million people per year, that means there's going to be a lot of empty houses accumulating, and at some point there'll be more houses to buy than people that look for new houses, and that will collapse the housing prices. You might have occupations that lack workforce. Aging population will strain your healthcare services and become a burden on the economy.

With healthy population growth, there's a high ratio between tax positive young, working people and tax negative, unemployed elderly people.
Yes, I know economics. But also know man does not live by economics alone. There is no way China can sustain 1.2 billion people in modern lifestyle. It might have worked in 1900 lifestyle (subsistence agriculture, a large family in countryside keeps a few chickens, pigs, cows and a few acres of field), but not today with insatiable appetite for petroleum, electricity, steel, cement etc., That picture in the link with red color - all countries need to reduce population to live sustainably.
 
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India needs to look at sustainable development. Even an Indian economy 1/3 or 1/4 of Chinese economy would make India an economic power.
China, India and USA will be way ahead of the rest of countries by 2040/2050
 
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India needs to look at sustainable development. Even an Indian economy 1/3 or 1/4 of Chinese economy would make India an economic power.
China, India and USA will be way ahead of the rest of countries by 2040/2050
India too will be well advised to target a 300 million population to go from red to green on the ecological carrying capacity balance. At that number, a lot of problems just vanish automatically.
 
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