For India, even a trip to Mars won't break the bank

[Levina]

The salary is low. No questions. But they are also entilted to a slew of benefits not seen anywhere.
I mean free Quarters with transport, subsidized electronic and automotive items, healthcare costs are covered. We need to give them more. But do not compare them to IT industry.

Kyun??
Translated: why???

 

[Hermione]

You do not tell this on a Pakistani forum According to them we are the best in what we do Even destabilizing many countries around us

ROFL

Kyun??
Translated: why???

That will be the end of our low budget research. We will be just as expensive as any other country in the world and with our smaller budget will be accomplishing much lesser too. Another thing is the inflationary spiral that will get us into. You cannot pay 2 lakhs salary only for the scientist without other officers at the same level demanding the same too. The pay scale will have to be hiked across board or else the resulting economic disparity will be a cause of social unrest. If the pay is hiked, then cost of living will go up in proportion to that. So high cost of living with high pay scale. What is the net gain?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Kyun??
Translated: why???

eVEN 2 DAYS BEFORE, IBM laid off nearly 15000 employees. Will this happen with ISRO?
Moreover pay commissions are based on inflatory pressures. You cannot earn more than a president in a govt job. But it gives you recognition, your skills are noticed, with so many allowances given ( do not tell me IT companies give allowances), and after retirement they join companies as MD or CEO giving them windfalls.
As hermoine pointed out, it will be the end of frugal innovation.

 

[karan21]

Even though this TIN CAN satellite which ISRO is sending to Mars might not bring any new knowledge to humanity apart from what we already know. But the fact that it is able to reach mars is a big achievement in itself.

 

[OrionHunter]

Hollywood made a movie worth $100 million, and we reached Mars in $75 million? Sounds interesting.

Not only that. The cost of the entire Mars project was less than half the cost of a single Eurofighter Typhoon!!!!!

And morons never fail to point out that India should feed the poor instead! By this do they mean, give a one-time dole of $75 million to the poor as a gift? And then what? Don't they know that we are spending more than 250 times that amount or nearly $20 billion on the food program for the poor?

Why don't they just STFU instead of sermonizing?

 

[TopCat]

Every foreign trip by scientists working in the likes of DRDO and ISRO requires prior clearance from their respective higher-ups, and the purpose of the trip, it's location and duration has to be explicitly given in writing.(I guess some details might even be subject to verification later)

ISRO and DRDO are working with 60 years old technoulogy which can be availed by the street side workshop and you guys think somebody will steal them from your so called scientist??

 

[SarthakGanguly]

ISRO and DRDO are working with 60 years old technoulogy which can be availed by the street side workshop and you guys think somebody will steal them from your so called scientist??

Proudly keeps a hundred icons in a Windows XP desktop and talks about being a geek/scientist

No offence intended

 

[thesolar65]

I am quoting something that I read on another site


Low price tag obtained at the cost of scientists?

So should we be proud about the low price tag? How much of this reduction in price has come from producing technology at lower cost using innovative methods and how much has come from underpaying human resources. Well the fact is that we have grossly underpaid our human resources to cut costs. The following table gives the salaries that ISRO scientists are paid (after the pay revision in the Sixth Pay Commission) and compares them to the salaries in the Information Technology sector in India.


Scientist B..... 0-4 years ....15,600-39,100+(5,400) .......... IT sector- Rs.30,000


Scientist C.....4-9 years.....15,600-39,100 +(6,600)............... IT sector Rs.58,000
Scientist D.......9-14 years..................15,600-39,100+(7,600).................IT sector Rs.100,000
Scientist E.....14-18 years....................39,200-67,000+(8,700)........IT sector Rs.142,000
Scientist F.....19-24 years.........39,200-67,000+(8,900).........ITsector Rs.183,000
Scientist G.......24 years...........39,200-67,000+(10,000)......IT sector Rs.225,000
Scientist H........24 years..........39,200-67,000+(12,000)..........IT sector Rs.225,000






(^These are the basic salary ranges for the given grade. The figures in the brackets are the grade pay. To get the gross salary add the grade pay and 30% HRA + 16% DA of the basic to current basic salary. DA is linked to the inflation and typically rises about 3% every four months and today stands at 16%. For example, a scientist B on joining would get 15,600 + 5,400 + (0.3+0.16) x 15,600 = 28, 176)
(*IT sector salary has been computed using the formula: annual salary after n years = Rs (3 + n x 1) lakhs, while not exact this formula gives a reasonably accurate lower bound. Most scientists have higher degrees like MTech and PhD, in which case the multiplicative factor can range between 1.1 to 1.5. Remember this is a lower bound for salaries in this sector. If you are aware of a better formula do let me know)

Now take a look at the following table to see how much Boeing and NASA are paying their scientists.

Organization and PostAverage Annual Salary
ISRO Scientist....$12,000
NASA Scientist........$88,000
Boeing Scientist..........$89,000

Should we feel great about the low price tag of Rs 386 crores for the Chandrayaan? Hardly.

I dream of being a space scientist but will actually become an accountant

While it is not necessary that our scientists should be paid salaries that equal those of NASA scientists, we must at least keep in view the Indian market conditions. We must at least provide our scientists a decent standard of living. They shouldn't have to think how they will pay for the education of their children.

In a recent visit to a school when Dr. Abdul Kalam asked the students how many of them wanted to be engineers a few hands went up. When he asked how many wanted to to be doctors a few more hands went up. Finally when he asked how many wanted to be involved in the Mars mission, all hands went up. But the fact remains that very few young graduates are taking up a career with ISRO. When you are a ten year old you can afford to follow your dream. By the time you are ready to leave school reality sets in. More eighteen year olds in India prefer to be accountants than to be space scientists. ISRO hardly gets applications for its scientist posts. For graduating students from top institutes like IISc or IITs, the top career choice is an MNC and not ISRO
World through Coloured Glasses: India's Moon Mission: Lets Not Feel Proud About the Low Price Tag

OK, I could not reply to you right away because I had to go for my work. (My work involves lot of running here and there throughout the day). But while I was driving certain things came to my mind and I want to put forth it here.

I have read the link also. But from pure logic point I cannot agree with you. When the fifth pay commission was announced, suddenly price of everything went up. From vegetable to grocery. Because every one from tea vender to vegetable wallahs knew that Govt. servants now has lot of money. So eventually the Govt. people ended up saving the same amount that they used to before, but common people blames Govt. for price rise.

You said that our scientists should get nearly the same if not the same as NASA, but our expenditures are very less, from managing family to children's education. And ISRO scientist gets $ 12000 + plethora of other incentives as @Rajaraja Chola said. And with that salary he can purchase two three bed room flats in his carear time + his children's education marriage + they get pension.

And see they have set up sixth pay commission and you will see as soon as the pay scale is announced price of everything will go up. So back to the square one!!

And also IT people gets more salary, but they have also Democleus's Sword above their head (pink slip).

And about IIT grads or IISC grads who prefer MNCs over ISRO, well good for them, wish them all the best.

And lastly the Scientists are supposed to be "not greedy" but those who use them. And that should be. They get their kick from their achievements. So, I rest my arguments. I agree to disagree with you.

@Hermione @arp2041

 

[Arya Desa]

No offence intended

Wow no wonder he is so frustrated...

 

[Levina]

That will be the end of our low budget research. We will be just as expensive as any other country in the world and with our smaller budget will be accomplishing much lesser too. Another thing is the inflationary spiral that will get us into. You cannot pay 2 lakhs salary only for the scientist without other officers at the same level demanding the same too. The pay scale will have to be hiked across board or else the resulting economic disparity will be a cause of social unrest. If the pay is hiked, then cost of living will go up in proportion to that. So high cost of living with high pay scale. What is the net gain?

eVEN 2 DAYS BEFORE, IBM laid off nearly 15000 employees. Will this happen with ISRO?
Moreover pay commissions are based on inflatory pressures. You cannot earn more than a president in a govt job. But it gives you recognition, your skills are noticed, with so many allowances given ( do not tell me IT companies give allowances), and after retirement they join companies as MD or CEO giving them windfalls.
As hermoine pointed out, it will be the end of frugal innovation.

OK, I could not reply to you right away because I had to go for my work. (My work involves lot of running here and there throughout the day). But while I was driving certain things came to my mind and I want to put forth it here.

I have read the link also. But from pure logic point I cannot agree with you. When the fifth pay commission was announced, suddenly price of everything went up. From vegetable to grocery. Because every one from tea vender to vegetable wallahs knew that Govt. servants now has lot of money. So eventually the Govt. people ended up saving the same amount that they used to before, but common people blames Govt. for price rise.

You said that our scientists should get nearly the same if not the same as NASA, but our expenditures are very less, from managing family to children's education. And ISRO scientist gets $ 12000 + plethora of other incentives as @Rajaraja Chola said. And with that salary he can purchase two three bed room flats in his carear time + his children's education marriage + they get pension.
And see they have set up sixth pay commission and you will see as soon as the pay scale is announced price of everything will go up. So back to the square one!!
And also IT people gets more salary, but they have also Democleus's Sword above their head (pink slip).
And about IIT grads or IISC grads who prefer MNCs over ISRO, well good for them, wish them all the best.
And lastly the Scientists are supposed to be "not greedy" but those who use them. And that should be. They get their kick from their achievements. So, I rest my arguments. I agree to disagree with you.
@Hermione @arp2041

Oops a lot of opposition...
Just because I think our scientists need a better payment???
Why because our government refuses to recognise their efforts?? They were supposed to get gold coin each when Chandrayaan was launched...did they get it?? NO
What did they get out of working 20hours a day on a shoe string budget for 15months??? Nothing
How long do you think they'll continue to work under such circumstances???

My points are simple and easy to understand (I've discussed this earlier too)
1) lf I were to glean precisely then low payments would mean that our scientists can be lured into working for agencies outside India,it has been happening since Abdul Kalam's time.And as I said earlier he had expressed concern over it in his book "wings of fire".
Let me give you an example of how demoralizing low payments can be...in past 5 years our about 50000 soldiers left para military forces because of low salary payments.Any managerial study will tell you that money is an important motivation factor.
ISRO scientists do not get anything extra when compared to other government departments. Its a well known fact that PSUs like ONGC are well known to give lots of perks to their employees.
PRIS is in limbo now. It was supposed to be reviewed in 2013, but they've not got it as of yet. Worst is future of PRIS is not clear as of today. Consequently the satisfaction levels among the younger engineers are slightly lower, which leads to higher attrition. Then there is internal politics just like any other place.The defence related lobby gets higher payments and perks.

2) Low salaries also mean that the cream of students from IIT and NITs go to private sector.ISRO ex chief G Madhavan Nair in one of his interviews had confessed that over the years the number of applications to ISRO had reduced.And that it was a matter of concern.

You said that our scientists should get nearly the same if not the same as NASA,

Nope I never said they should be paid same as their counterparts...but their payments should be increased.

Lastly dont call it frugal....I'll tell you why


Kopillil Radhakrishnan, chairman of ISRO, “I don’t like the phrase ‘frugal engineering’. ISRO’s general philosophy is cost effectiveness. The Russians look for robustness and the Americans go after optimization. Our aim at ISRO was how do we get to Mars on a budget.”

I am proud of ISRO and the scientists for whom its country and the organization first.
Yes they are not greedy and its a virtue.

 

[Superboy]

Woohoo hope everything goes well and orbital insertion is accomplished in September.