pak-marine
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More so after the successful dharna in Karachi
how many people gathered in his sucesful dharna?
For all the wrong reasons?
- Thread starter pak-marine
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how many people gathered in his sucesful dharna?
Rafael
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Leader
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Rafael
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Who is asking you to give it up? All he is saying is to alienate terrorists from the tribals who are attacking army for other reasons ( drone attacks on family, colateral damage in army ops etc etc). It'll make army's job easier.
pak-marine
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i dont know whats your defination of giving up " Unless writ of the state implemented , TTP & AQ finished or thrown out and total control of the troubled areas if you stop before than thats giving up!
pak-marine
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again ... you are calling it sucessful , to prove please provide a valid source (news paper , article ) mentioning how many people attended ?
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3:00 sec Imran khan like a SUPREME COMMANDER OF THE COUNTRY, points out kiyani as the culprit...
he already said had he been the ruler of Pakistan, he would have fired the COAS, and court martial, who else dare to say that ?
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Rafael
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And we have been trying to do that for the last 7 year, what are the results? Look Pakmarine, I am as concerned about this country as you are, all I'm trying to say that this strategy has not yielded desired results in 7 years, so what makes you think this will in another2-3 years? Somewhere something is wrong. The strategy must change.
---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------
History in the making | | DAWN.COM
Leader
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had military operation been a successful strategy, it would have been a success in Karachi against mqm militants and the poor urdu speaking community.
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on the other hand when you see NATO and amreeka doing peace talks with Talibans, why not we?dont you feel stupified, ke amreeka ke pechay lag ker ham apnay hi pakistaniyon se lar mar rahe hain or woh khud peace talks ker raha hai ??? we are going to live side by side with pakhtuns, and we lived for 55 years with hardly any problem, rather FATA yielded the most tourists.... think about and get out of the fear and influence of amreeka...
pak-marine
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E=raheel1;1790852]And we have been trying to do that for the last 7 year, what are the results? Look Pakmarine, I am as concerned about this country
I understand that ..we all are very concerned and thats why we are here sharing thoughts , Bottom line for every one is to save Pakistan , In my opinion this terrorism is some thing the establishment cooked up for thirty years "to serve their own interests" , some thing which took so long isnt going to go away ! We havent started treating it properly yet we are yet to start and the sooner the better ... There are no quick fixes its an ideology which has set in and will again take years to heal . In my view stopping now will brought us back to square one , think about Pakistan for the next 100years .. May be we wont see but our next generation will see a very prosperous Pakistan
Again figures are missing ?
I understand that ..we all are very concerned and thats why we are here sharing thoughts , Bottom line for every one is to save Pakistan , In my opinion this terrorism is some thing the establishment cooked up for thirty years "to serve their own interests" , some thing which took so long isnt going to go away ! We havent started treating it properly yet we are yet to start and the sooner the better ... There are no quick fixes its an ideology which has set in and will again take years to heal . In my view stopping now will brought us back to square one , think about Pakistan for the next 100years .. May be we wont see but our next generation will see a very prosperous Pakistan
Again figures are missing ?
pak-marine
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Never heard the so called mesiah Imran khan opposing operation against urdu speaking .. wonder why did he decided to shut off ... ? on the other hand its pretty irrelevant mixing these two as in those days the estabilishment was busy cooking up , and urdu speaking were the only people who stood up when the whole country got carried away !
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dont mix mqm militants and urdu speak to have a soft look, or to gain sympathy for what mqm's role is.
pak-marine
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Wrinkles in youth
The most convenient understanding of the phenomenon of Pakistani extremists that one hears being echoed from TV studios and their favourite guests suggests that young Pakistanis turning into religious fanatics has something to do with illiteracy and unemployment. Though not entirely incorrect, this notion however is a complacent explanation.
It fails to explain the emergence of young religious extremists such as Omar Shaikh, Shahzad Tanveer, Hasib Hussain and Faisal Shahzad. Each one of these young men came from educated middle-class families.
Saying they were products of western societies that they were raised in is a weak retort. This attitude simply refuses to seriously address the issue of educated young Pakistanis falling for a myopic and nihilistic brand of the faith something that was once explained as a vocation only of the illiterate and the financially desperate. There has been an alarming rise in the number of young, educated middle-class Pakistanis (here and abroad), embracing the most reactionary and anarchic strains of the faith, believing it to be a justified and logical portrayal of true Islam.
The state and the government of Pakistan will have to thoroughly investigate and rectify this alarming trend. While actors like the 7/7 bombers and Faisal Shahzad are obvious embarrassments to Pakistan and to the Pakistani communities in the West, so are the growing number of rabid, tech-savvy young people floating around various interactive websites to mouth the most obnoxious ideas about Islam and politics. There are websites out there glorifying utter mad men and propagating most twisted conspiracy theories, and many of these are owned, run and frequented by Pakistanis who work and are comfortably settled in western countries.
Just as the sudden rise of certain crackpots (via TV) in Pakistan was keenly followed and supported by a chunk of young, urban Pakistanis, various cranks are happily catering to the already confused religious and ideological bearings of Muslim Pakistanis living abroad. Much has been written about people like Zaid Hamid, Aamir Liaquat and Zakir Naik men who cleverly represent (and glorify) the increasingly chauvinistic mindset of the current generation of young urbanites.
A recent book on Farhat Hashmis organisation, Al-Huda, (written by a Pakistani woman), accuses her of spreading hatred against Christians, Hindus and Jews among Pakistani women living in Canada. In the wake of the Faisal Shahzad episode in New York last year, the Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC), a group of liberal Muslims living in Canada, accused American Islamic organisations of refusing to distance themselves from the doctrine of armed jihad waged by extremists, as did the Deobandi ulemas conference back home late last year.
The MCC goes on to state that many young Pakistanis living in the United States and Canada regard Pakistan as a safe haven for their preparation and training for waging wars against the West. Organisations like the MCC have also come down hard on outfits such as Al-Huda, refuting their claim that they are on a mission to convert westerners to Islam.
Nevertheless, even in liberal countries like US, UK and Canada, organisations like the MCC are coming under direct attack and threats from their more myopic counterparts who, it seems, are free to peddle away hatred and confusion to Muslims living abroad.
But, of course, the situation is more alarming in this respect in Pakistan. Political Islam a mid-20th century philosophy that advocates the creation of a theocratic society and state through the Islamisation of politics was once the prerogative of conservative scholars and established political parties such as Abul Ala Mauddudi and his Jamat-i-Islami. However, ever since the late 1980s it has rapidly disintegrated into a bare but populist entity with two prominent strains.
One strain has striped off this philosophys more scholarly aspects and left only its violent jihadist aspects to work with. This strain can now be found in the barbaric ways of extremist organisations like the Taliban and many of Pakistans sectarian outfits. The other strain has been working to turn political Islam into a populist set of easy-to-digest ideas through which, either elections can be fought or the military-establishment can be infiltrated and used as a patron.
The JI tried flaunting the populist aspects of political Islam during the 1977 and 1993 elections, but failed. Nawaz Sharifs PML-N did so throughout the 1990s and somewhat did succeed but only with the help of the military-establishment. Political Islams historical drubbling in elections in Pakistan has increasingly made this philosophy the vocation of certain powerful sections of Pakistans military and its many mouthpieces in the popular Urdu media and in so-called Islamic evangelist movements.
Its most recent advocate (again with a more than a little help from certain sections in the military establishment) is cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan. Though Imrans party, the PTI, has been quite a disaster in the two elections that it took part in, he has suddenly been propped up by an aggressive right-wing electronic media and an increasingly confused number of young middle-class urbanites.
Though, quite like Imran, most of his followers lifestyles are rather westernised, these are no liberals believing in concepts like democratic pluralism or in the importance of tolerating and promoting religious, sectarian and ethnic diversity. By the looks of it, they see democracy as a threat to Pakistans imagined existence as a monotheistic state and society based on a single (state-sanctioned and clergy-approved) strain of the faith.
Imran fans, like the pro-Musharraf moderates, have, at best, sound like 21st century versions of Ziaul Haq. Instead of a sherwani and a stern frown, they can be seen in modern, western clothes and designer shalwar-kameez spouting the most worn-out rhetoric and narrative that was started by the state under Zia and his politico-religious sidekicks.
Its the usual beat: Pakistan and democracy are not compatible; democratic pluralism promotes ethnocentricity; secularism is akin to atheism; religious extremism and violence are the handiwork of the anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam elements (mainly foreign), and the state and intelligence agencies of Pakistan have nothing to with it. Also to these Ipod carrying revolutionaries there is only one correct version of Islam but most Pakistanis follow a corrupted and adulterated version because they are illiterate and superstitious; anyone questioning these assumptions is a traitor and that only politicians are corrupt, and we need a strong leader who cannot come through democracy because most Pakistanis are ignorant.
Furthermore, anyone also questioning the obvious and yet padded extremism and soft authoritarianism peddled by the Imran brigade is a liberal extremist who is undermining religion and promoting corrupt politicians. And should I even get into their take on the need of a worldwide caliphate? Maybe not. Dont want to turn this piece into a black comedy, if you know what I mean.
http://http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/29/smokers-corner-wrinkles-in-youth.html
The most convenient understanding of the phenomenon of Pakistani extremists that one hears being echoed from TV studios and their favourite guests suggests that young Pakistanis turning into religious fanatics has something to do with illiteracy and unemployment. Though not entirely incorrect, this notion however is a complacent explanation.
It fails to explain the emergence of young religious extremists such as Omar Shaikh, Shahzad Tanveer, Hasib Hussain and Faisal Shahzad. Each one of these young men came from educated middle-class families.
Saying they were products of western societies that they were raised in is a weak retort. This attitude simply refuses to seriously address the issue of educated young Pakistanis falling for a myopic and nihilistic brand of the faith something that was once explained as a vocation only of the illiterate and the financially desperate. There has been an alarming rise in the number of young, educated middle-class Pakistanis (here and abroad), embracing the most reactionary and anarchic strains of the faith, believing it to be a justified and logical portrayal of true Islam.
The state and the government of Pakistan will have to thoroughly investigate and rectify this alarming trend. While actors like the 7/7 bombers and Faisal Shahzad are obvious embarrassments to Pakistan and to the Pakistani communities in the West, so are the growing number of rabid, tech-savvy young people floating around various interactive websites to mouth the most obnoxious ideas about Islam and politics. There are websites out there glorifying utter mad men and propagating most twisted conspiracy theories, and many of these are owned, run and frequented by Pakistanis who work and are comfortably settled in western countries.
Just as the sudden rise of certain crackpots (via TV) in Pakistan was keenly followed and supported by a chunk of young, urban Pakistanis, various cranks are happily catering to the already confused religious and ideological bearings of Muslim Pakistanis living abroad. Much has been written about people like Zaid Hamid, Aamir Liaquat and Zakir Naik men who cleverly represent (and glorify) the increasingly chauvinistic mindset of the current generation of young urbanites.
A recent book on Farhat Hashmis organisation, Al-Huda, (written by a Pakistani woman), accuses her of spreading hatred against Christians, Hindus and Jews among Pakistani women living in Canada. In the wake of the Faisal Shahzad episode in New York last year, the Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC), a group of liberal Muslims living in Canada, accused American Islamic organisations of refusing to distance themselves from the doctrine of armed jihad waged by extremists, as did the Deobandi ulemas conference back home late last year.
The MCC goes on to state that many young Pakistanis living in the United States and Canada regard Pakistan as a safe haven for their preparation and training for waging wars against the West. Organisations like the MCC have also come down hard on outfits such as Al-Huda, refuting their claim that they are on a mission to convert westerners to Islam.
Nevertheless, even in liberal countries like US, UK and Canada, organisations like the MCC are coming under direct attack and threats from their more myopic counterparts who, it seems, are free to peddle away hatred and confusion to Muslims living abroad.
But, of course, the situation is more alarming in this respect in Pakistan. Political Islam a mid-20th century philosophy that advocates the creation of a theocratic society and state through the Islamisation of politics was once the prerogative of conservative scholars and established political parties such as Abul Ala Mauddudi and his Jamat-i-Islami. However, ever since the late 1980s it has rapidly disintegrated into a bare but populist entity with two prominent strains.
One strain has striped off this philosophys more scholarly aspects and left only its violent jihadist aspects to work with. This strain can now be found in the barbaric ways of extremist organisations like the Taliban and many of Pakistans sectarian outfits. The other strain has been working to turn political Islam into a populist set of easy-to-digest ideas through which, either elections can be fought or the military-establishment can be infiltrated and used as a patron.
The JI tried flaunting the populist aspects of political Islam during the 1977 and 1993 elections, but failed. Nawaz Sharifs PML-N did so throughout the 1990s and somewhat did succeed but only with the help of the military-establishment. Political Islams historical drubbling in elections in Pakistan has increasingly made this philosophy the vocation of certain powerful sections of Pakistans military and its many mouthpieces in the popular Urdu media and in so-called Islamic evangelist movements.
Its most recent advocate (again with a more than a little help from certain sections in the military establishment) is cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan. Though Imrans party, the PTI, has been quite a disaster in the two elections that it took part in, he has suddenly been propped up by an aggressive right-wing electronic media and an increasingly confused number of young middle-class urbanites.
Though, quite like Imran, most of his followers lifestyles are rather westernised, these are no liberals believing in concepts like democratic pluralism or in the importance of tolerating and promoting religious, sectarian and ethnic diversity. By the looks of it, they see democracy as a threat to Pakistans imagined existence as a monotheistic state and society based on a single (state-sanctioned and clergy-approved) strain of the faith.
Imran fans, like the pro-Musharraf moderates, have, at best, sound like 21st century versions of Ziaul Haq. Instead of a sherwani and a stern frown, they can be seen in modern, western clothes and designer shalwar-kameez spouting the most worn-out rhetoric and narrative that was started by the state under Zia and his politico-religious sidekicks.
Its the usual beat: Pakistan and democracy are not compatible; democratic pluralism promotes ethnocentricity; secularism is akin to atheism; religious extremism and violence are the handiwork of the anti-Pakistan and anti-Islam elements (mainly foreign), and the state and intelligence agencies of Pakistan have nothing to with it. Also to these Ipod carrying revolutionaries there is only one correct version of Islam but most Pakistanis follow a corrupted and adulterated version because they are illiterate and superstitious; anyone questioning these assumptions is a traitor and that only politicians are corrupt, and we need a strong leader who cannot come through democracy because most Pakistanis are ignorant.
Furthermore, anyone also questioning the obvious and yet padded extremism and soft authoritarianism peddled by the Imran brigade is a liberal extremist who is undermining religion and promoting corrupt politicians. And should I even get into their take on the need of a worldwide caliphate? Maybe not. Dont want to turn this piece into a black comedy, if you know what I mean.
http://http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/29/smokers-corner-wrinkles-in-youth.html
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