Follow IMF or Islam?

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Pakistanis have traded god for the almighty dollar.

 

[Indos]

Zakat is voluntarily action which actually not that high,

Tax is not un-Islamic, it is way to help the country, similar like the way we have to raise our swords/rifle when we face a war. See economy as some kind of war as well, as if your economy is in bad shape, your chance to win any war if some country attack you will be smaller

If God ask us to fight the invader that can cost us live, so why tax is forbidden and un- Islamic ??????

 

[Mr.Green]

Zakat is voluntarily action which actually not that high,

Tax is not un-Islamic, it is way to help the country, similar like the way we have to raise our swords/rifle when we face a war. See economy as some kind of war as well, as if your economy is in bad shape, your chance to win any war if some country attack you will be smaller

If God ask us to fight the invader that can cost us live, so why tax is forbidden and un- Islamic ??????

Other taxes are not forbidden. Zakat is not voluntary but is collected by govt. It has become voluntary over the ages. Abu Bakr R.A fought with those tribes not paying Zakat. Govt. can levy other taxes. Many of those are given in the last paragraph of the article.

 

[Goritoes]

Zakat is voluntarily

Zakat is not Voluntarily, its mandatory/compulsory.

 

[Indos]

Zakat is not Voluntarily, its mandatory/compulsory.

I mean it is private thing, government cannot force us to pay Zakat

It is mandatory for any Muslim, all Muslim has already known it

Other taxes are not forbidden. Zakat is not voluntary but is collected by govt. It has become voluntary over the ages. Abu Bakr R.A fought with those tribes not paying Zakat. Govt. can levy other taxes. Many of those are given in the last paragraph of the article.

Tax is much higher than Zakat. If we have company in Indonesia, beside paying for individual tax which is much higher than Zakat, we also should pay 22 % of our profit to government, there are also sales tax about 11 %.

If we think like you think, Muslim in Indonesia doesnt need to pay Zakat anymore, since what they pay for government is much higher than what is required by Zakat

 

[Mr.Green]

I mean it is private thing, government cannot force us to pay Zakat

It is mandatory for any Muslim, all Muslim has already known it

View attachment 844727



Tax is much higher than Zakat. If we have company in Indonesia, beside paying for individual tax which is much higher than Zakat, we also should pay 22 % of our profit to government, there are also sales tax about 11 %.

If we think like you think, Muslim in Indonesia doesnt need to pay Zakat anymore, since what they pay for government is much higher than what is required by Zakat

Zakat is like a wealth tax not income tax. It is being practiced voluntarily but that practice is wrong as it should be collected and distributed by Govt.

 

[Goritoes]

I mean it is private thing, government cannot force us to pay Zakat

It is mandatory for any Muslim, all Muslim has already known it

Oh yes they can, Abu Bakr RA the best non Prophet Man to walk the earth goes to War with tribes for refusal to Pay Zakat, so yes state can enforce its will if someone refuse to pay Zakat, unless they are non Muslims Minority.

 

[Indos]

Oh yes they can, Abu Bakr RA the best non Prophet Man to walk the earth goes to War with tribes for refusal to Pay Zakat, so yes state can enforce its will if someone refuse to pay Zakat, unless they are non Muslims Minority.

That is because it is regarded in the past as tax as well. It is how government can get money to finance the war, give subsidy to the poor, and give salary to government civil servant. The same like tax under modern government which is wayyyyyy higher than Zakat.

Under this current circumtances, government can still run without the need for the citizen to pay Zakat. We need to understand the contex if we want to understand deeper about this matter

 

[Mr.Green]

View attachment 844721

@jamahir

That is because it is regarded in the past as tax as well. It is how government can get money to finance the war, give subsidy to the poor, and give salary to government civil servant. The same like tax under modern government which is wayyyyyy higher than Zakat.

Under this current circumtances, government can still run without the need for the citizen to pay Zakat. We need to understand the contex if we want to understand deeper about this matter

It can pay the salary of collectors and disbursers of Zakat upto 12.5% of collected Zakat. It is a wealth Tax. It will solve part but not all of the government's problems like feeding the poor, freeing the jail captives with Bonds, travelers, those with loans on their heads meaning the 8 categories and also cover War and preaching expenses.

@jamahir


It can pay the salary of collectors and disbursers of Zakat upto 12.5% of collected Zakat. It is a wealth Tax. It will solve part but not all of the government's problems like feeding the poor, freeing the jail captives with Bonds, travelers, those with loans on their heads meaning the 8 categories and also cover War and preaching expenses.

I think it is not Income Tax but wealth tax.

 

[Kaleem.61]

Zakat is voluntarily action which actually not that high,

Zakaat is as important as Nimaaz. We can pay 12~20% to the thug govt. but not 2.5 to the needy and poor. Pathetic!!!

 

[Goritoes]

hat is because it is regarded in the past as tax as well. It is how government can get money to finance the war, give subsidy to the poor, and give salary to government civil servant. The same like tax under modern government which is wayyyyyy higher than Zakat.

Dude you are arguing over a pillar of Islam, as I said the best man after Rasool Allah went to war when Islam was in its weakest position over the Zakat, and I trust his decision and understanding of Islam than yours or to be honest anyone who is alive today, Zakat is mandatory and Charity is voluntarily, you are mixing it both.

Under this current circumtances, government can still run without the need for the citizen to pay Zakat. We need to understand the contex if we want to understand deeper about this matter

You see your idea of Zakat is wrong, someone give you wrong info about Zakat, Zakat is something set by Allah in Quran so there is no question about not giving it if one is able, there are many things that can hurt if the people just stop paying Zakat because they don't want to, citing the same verse you did " No compulsion in religion ", with that logic one can stop praying, Hajj , believing in Quran and Rasool, of course one has free will to not do all that but then that person exit the Islam so no need to apply Zakat rule anyway, another dangerous and unjust implication of Muslims not paying Zakat under any Islamic state would be that Non Muslims has to pay Jizya which is their part of the tax, and if Muslims just stop paying Zakat and state take Jizya from Non Muslims than its unjust and unfair. Zakat is for the state, which goes into the Bait-ul-Maal from which needy and poor Muslims get their share, and it cleanse the wealth of Muslims and it protects them from Hell fire, as long as you are eligible to pay Zakat and just don't want to pay because whatever reason or citing no compulsion in religion which is wrong. So I'd suggest you should go back to basics of Islam cause you really doesn't seems to know what you are talking about.

 

[Indos]

Dude you are arguing over a pillar of Islam, as I said the best man after Rasool Allah went to war when Islam was in its weakest position over the Zakat, and I trust his decision and understanding of Islam than yours or to be honest anyone who is alive today, Zakat is mandatory and Charity is voluntarily, you are mixing it both.

You see your idea of Zakat is wrong, someone give you wrong info about Zakat, Zakat is something set by Allah in Quran so there is no question about not giving it if one is able, there are many things that can hurt if the people just stop paying Zakat because they don't want to, citing the same verse you did " No compulsion in religion ", with that logic one can stop praying, Hajj , believing in Quran and Rasool, of course one has free will to not do all that but then that person exit the Islam so no need to apply Zakat rule anyway, another dangerous and unjust implication of Muslims not paying Zakat under any Islamic state would be that Non Muslims has to pay Jizya which is their part of the tax, and if Muslims just stop paying Zakat and state take Jizya from Non Muslims than its unjust and unfair. Zakat is for the state, which goes into the Bait-ul-Maal from which needy and poor Muslims get their share, and it cleanse the wealth of Muslims and it protects them from Hell fire, as long as you are eligible to pay Zakat and just don't want to pay because whatever reason or citing no compulsion in religion which is wrong. So I'd suggest you should go back to basics of Islam cause you really doesn't seems to know what you are talking about.

I never said Zakat is not mandatory, but since we are discussing about how government should collect it, then I said it is voluntarily ( in term of collection ). See my above post. Indonesians government also can take its citizen Zakat and being managed under special body and disbursed to the Muslims citizen that can be in many form, but it is voluntarily.

There is no tax imposed during prophet Muhammad, only Zakat and regulation in term of wealth taken from enemy during a war. While current situation is different, government do collect tax way higher than what is required by Zakat

My position is clear :

We must pay Zakat ( there are many kind of Zakat ) but no government forcing it ( I dont like government forcing Muslim for individual thing like praying, zakat, etc )

We must also pay Tax, and for Muslim living in Muslim countries, paying tax for government can be considered as Jihad

Zakaat is as important as Nimaaz. We can pay 12~20% to the thug govt. but not 2.5 to the needy and poor. Pathetic!!!

Read my post calmly, less emotional

 

[Mr.Green]

I never said Zakat is not mandatory, but since we are discussing about how government should collect it, then I said it is voluntarily ( in term of collection ). See my above post. Indonesians government also can take its citizen Zakat and being managed under special body and disbursed to the Muslims citizen that can be in many form, but it is voluntarily.

There is no tax imposed during prophet Muhammad, only Zakat and regulation in term of wealth taken from enemy during a war. While current situation is different, government do collect tax way higher than what is required by Zakat

My position is clear :

We must pay Zakat ( there are many kind of Zakat ) but no government forcing it ( I dont like government forcing Muslim for individual thing like praying, zakat, etc )

We must also pay Tax, and for Muslim living in Muslim countries, paying tax for government can be considered as Jihad



Read my post calmly, less emotional

The Zakat should be paid to the Government, for Allah (SWT) says: "Take alms from their properties so that you might purify and sanctify them." [At-Tauba: 103]

 

[Goritoes]

I never said Zakat is not mandatory, but since we are discussing about how government should collect it, then I said it is voluntarily ( in term of collection ). See my above post. Indonesians government also can take its citizen Zakat and being managed under special body and disbursed to the Muslims citizen that can be in many form, but it is voluntarily.

There is no tax imposed during prophet Muhammad, only Zakat and regulation in term of wealth taken from enemy during a war. While current situation is different, government do collect tax way higher than what is required by Zakat

My position is clear :

We must pay Zakat ( there are many kind of Zakat ) but no government forcing it ( I dont like government forcing Muslim for individual thing like praying, zakat, etc )

We must also pay Tax, and for Muslim living in Muslim countries, paying tax for government can be considered as Jihad



Read my post calmly, less emotional

Literally your first lines in this thread.

" Zakat is voluntarily action which actually not that high, "