FC-31 v2.0 First flight 2016.12.23

[Basel]

I have my great respect for turkey. But compare to China they haven't develop any fighter other then producing F-16 under license. So even though Europe might help them yet they haven't test their prototype .and their declared goal to fly the fifth generation fighter not before 2023 ,so it may be late for PAF get their hands on fifth generation fighter in time if they rely on Turkish option. In my opinion J-31 is the best choice both for cost and time to acquires.

First google how Turkey is going to develop it's5th gen, and remember they already have access to operational mature 5th gen tech i.e. F-35, TFX will be 2nd 5th gen jet of Tukey getting ToT from western aviation giants who have experience in building 5th gen jet, and there will be no issue of sanction when Turkey will be the providing source not the western countries. Qualitatively TFX may be better then FC-31 which currently even PLAAF don't want.

5th gen will be our front line fighter not 2nd tier like JFT so we need best jet not the mediocre one, TFX will be front line jet of Turkey while FC-31 don't have future in Chinese military now. It's just for export, if China offer J-20 then it's better offer as its their best tech like TFX for Turkey.

 

[WarFariX]

But china way ahead from Turkey


sir too early say about TFX, its technology will be based on F-35 which is multi-role jet

thats a silly reason mere bhai
J-20s avionics were first tested on J-10 so does that make j20 a multirole fighter ?

 

[Silicon0000]

PAF Future will be like:
JF-17 block 3 = 4.5 generation,
J-31 = 5th generation &
TFX = 5.5 generation.

 

[dingyibvs]

First google how Turkey is going to develop it's5th gen, and remember they already have access to operational mature 5th gen tech i.e. F-35, TFX will be 2nd 5th gen jet of Tukey getting ToT from western aviation giants who have experience in building 5th gen jet, and there will be no issue of sanction when Turkey will be the providing source not the western countries. Qualitatively TFX may be better then FC-31 which currently even PLAAF don't want.

5th gen will be our front line fighter not 2nd tier like JFT so we need best jet not the mediocre one, TFX will be front line jet of Turkey while FC-31 don't have future in Chinese military now. It's just for export, if China offer J-20 then it's better offer as its their best tech like TFX for Turkey.

TFX is a pipe dream, not even the European countries themselves can build a 5th gen fighter, but Turkey will with European tech? Also, there is absolutely, positively, no friggin way that any sensitive technology like engine or radar tech will be shared with Turkey. They'll have access to operational mature 5th gen planes, but not the tech. As such, even if the TFX becomes a reality, which is a very long shot, it'll be as tied to the goodwill of the West as the F-35 will.

 

[Ultima Thule]

TFX = 5.5 generation.

5.5th genstill 5th gen

 

[CriticalThought]

Wont happen. Turkey cancelled 2013 talks to buy $3.4 bil contract to buy chinese air defense system becaue of incompatibility with NATO systems.
Think before you wish

There are many avenues of corporation. The TFX could be one. Or, more like, TFX and FC-31 can cross-pollinate each other. I can think of many other possibilities.

 

[imadul]

There are many avenues of corporation. The TFX could be one. Or, more like, TFX and FC-31 can cross-pollinate each other. I can think of many other possibilities.

Turkey is NATO member, so how sino-european system could be integrated? Would NATO allow Turkey to expose its systems to China?
And you are using wrong terms even though you may mean blending the two programs. These are different programs having different goals. TFX is still a concept, and Grey Falcon in advance prototype stage and going through tests.

 

[Beast]

TFX is a pipe dream, not even the European countries themselves can build a 5th gen fighter, but Turkey will with European tech? Also, there is absolutely, positively, no friggin way that any sensitive technology like engine or radar tech will be shared with Turkey. They'll have access to operational mature 5th gen planes, but not the tech. As such, even if the TFX becomes a reality, which is a very long shot, it'll be as tied to the goodwill of the West as the F-35 will.

Fully agree.There are simply too many naive thinking from some Pakistanis member who has nothing but wild dream. Thinking TFX will be better than FC-31 V2 is simply a joke!

There are large number of technology and manufacturing method. Turkey has not demonstrated.

So what Turkey is NATO? Western European who are mainly Christian will simply not trust Muslim Turkish. Western European is just trying to milk as much money from Turkish to make up for their short of fund with the lure of false hope ToT. Western European are very cunning.

 

[CriticalThought]

Turkey is NATO member, so how sino-european system could be integrated? Would NATO allow Turkey to expose its systems to China?
And you are using wrong terms even though you may mean blending the two programs. These are different programs having different goals. TFX is still a concept, and Grey Falcon in advance prototype stage and going through tests.

In the face of changing world politics, many alliances have been made and broken. No country is tied to a single philosophy, or pact. More than NATO being a restriction, I know for a fact from Chinese members on the forum they don't see cooperation with Turkey as a useful avenue.

But this is how it can actually work. Pakistan gets the basic airframe of FC-31, but avionics, weapons, flight control etc. from TFX. As I said before 'I can think of many other possibilities'.

Although the TFX itself is a concept, the technologies slated for inclusion are not. They are in active development by various firms in Turkey and will keep evolving. TFX, whenever it materializes, will use the latest. But since they are being developed in parallel, Pakistan can keep benefiting from them as they get developed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_TFX#cite_note-AINONLINE-25

TAI's Advanced Carbon Composites fuselage facility, which was commissioned to produce fuselages for Lockheed Martin's Joint Strike Fighter (F-35)[22][23] program, has been tasked with developing an Advanced Carbon Composite fuselage for the TFX. The Turkish Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) has also issued a tender for the development of a new lighter carbon composite thermoplastic for the TFX fuselage.[24]

ASELSAN is currently developing a highly advanced Active electronically scanned array radar which will use gallium nitride (GaN) technology for the TFX program.[25]

TFX probably could use upgraded variants of Aselsan's own radar warning receiver (RWR), missile warning system (MWS), laser warning system (LWS), chaff and flare management, dispensing system and digital radio frequency memory (DRFM)-based jamming system, which are previously developed. [27] [28]

On 20 January 2015, Aselsan of Turkey announced that it had executed a memorandum of understanding with Eurojet, the manufacturer of the EJ200 engine used in the Eurofighter Typhoon.[29] The announcement also stated that a derivative of the EJ200 will be used in the TFX program.[30][31][32][33] The two companies will additionally collaborate and co-develop engine control software systems and engine maintenance monitoring systems.[33] Turkey's selection of the EJ200 evidences TAI's intention to utilise supercruise capability.

Fully agree.There are simply too many naive thinking from some Pakistanis member who has nothing but wild dream. Thinking TFX will be better than FC-31 V2 is simply a joke!

There are large number of technology and manufacturing method. Turkey has not demonstrated.

So what Turkey is NATO? Western European who are mainly Christian will simply not trust Muslim Turkish. Western European is just trying to milk as much money from Turkish to make up for their short of fund with the lure of false hope ToT. Western European are very cunning.

I fully understand your concerns. But as I proposed in my previous post, we would like to mix and match. For example, although we have placed an order of 8 submarines from China, we reserve the option of marrying them with the weapons and battle management system of our choice. The same happened with JF-17.

The advantage this offers PAF is that we compare many different systems, understand their relative strengths and weaknesses, and then select the best combination of price, performance, and technology transfer. And China benefits from the deep insights we gain from this process.

 

[Ultima Thule]

In the face of changing world politics, many alliances have been made and broken. No country is tied to a single philosophy, or pact. More than NATO being a restriction, I know for a fact from Chinese members on the forum they don't see cooperation with Turkey as a useful avenue.

But this is how it can actually work. Pakistan gets the basic airframe of FC-31, but avionics, weapons, flight control etc. from TFX. As I said before 'I can think of many other possibilities'.

Although the TFX itself is a concept, the technologies slated for inclusion are not. They are in active development by various firms in Turkey and will keep evolving. TFX, whenever it materializes, will use the latest. But since they are being developed in parallel, Pakistan can keep benefiting from them as they get developed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAI_TFX#cite_note-AINONLINE-25










I fully understand your concerns. But as I proposed in my previous post, we would like to mix and match. For example, although we have placed an order of 8 submarines from China, we reserve the option of marrying them with the weapons and battle management system of our choice. The same happened with JF-17.

The advantage this offers PAF is that we compare many different systems, understand their relative strengths and weaknesses, and then select the best combination of price, performance, and technology transfer. And China benefits from the deep insights we gain from this process.

tow word answer for you not possible EU will not allows turkey that to put projected avionics of TFX in FC-31

 

[帅的一匹]

First google how Turkey is going to develop it's5th gen, and remember they already have access to operational mature 5th gen tech i.e. F-35, TFX will be 2nd 5th gen jet of Tukey getting ToT from western aviation giants who have experience in building 5th gen jet, and there will be no issue of sanction when Turkey will be the providing source not the western countries. Qualitatively TFX may be better then FC-31 which currently even PLAAF don't want.

5th gen will be our front line fighter not 2nd tier like JFT so we need best jet not the mediocre one, TFX will be front line jet of Turkey while FC-31 don't have future in Chinese military now. It's just for export, if China offer J-20 then it's better offer as its their best tech like TFX for Turkey.

How do you know FC31 won't play a role in PLAAF or PLAN? How do you know TFX is qualitatively better than FC31? All these speculation making nonsense.

Currently nearly all advanced aviation tech of Turkey is base on western one or under license production, Pakistan cant count on TFX. Production under license is totally different from grasping the know how. Just like the Indians hyperd that they can produce Su30 MKI, which is just an assembly job. China will not share any classified fighter jet tech with Turkey either, cause they are not out brother( and NATO's our enemy). FC31 will adopt lots of J20 tech, while TFX is now stil on the paper.

How do you know FC31 won't play a role in PLAAF or PLAN? How do you know TFX is qualitatively better than FC31? All these speculation making nonsense.

Currently nearly all advanced aviation tech of Turkey is base on western one or under license production, Pakistan cant count on TFX. Production under license is totally different from grasping the know how. Just like the Indians hyper that they can produce Su30 MKI, which is just an assembly job. China will not share any classified fighter jet tech with Turkey either, cause they are not our brother(and its NATO member). FC31 will adopt lots of J20 tech, while TFX is now stil on the paper.

 

[Basel]

TFX is a pipe dream, not even the European countries themselves can build a 5th gen fighter, but Turkey will with European tech? Also, there is absolutely, positively, no friggin way that any sensitive technology like engine or radar tech will be shared with Turkey. They'll have access to operational mature 5th gen planes, but not the tech. As such, even if the TFX becomes a reality, which is a very long shot, it'll be as tied to the goodwill of the West as the F-35 will.

Europe have all tech available to built 5th gen fighter but don't have political will to do that, they are working on UCVs.

 

[MystryMan]

How do you know FC31 won't play a role in PLAAF or PLAN? How do you know TFX is qualitatively better than FC31? All these speculation making nonsense.

Currently nearly all advanced aviation tech of Turkey is base on western one or under license production, Pakistan cant count on TFX. Production under license is totally different from grasping the know how. Just like the Indians hyperd that they can produce Su30 MKI, which is just an assembly job. China will not share any classified fighter jet tech with Turkey either, cause they are not out brother( and NATO's our enemy). FC31 will adopt lots of J20 tech, while TFX is now stil on the paper.

FC31 can share technology and subsystem from J20 making its development and certification process quicker.

 

[Beast]

Europe have all tech available to built 5th gen fighter but don't have political will to do that, they are working on UCVs.

This is nothing buy just plain wishful thinking by you. You are just finding full of excuse for European incompetency. 5th gen fighter is a life and death equipment if they compete with the best. Why would they not developed? As if turkey has more will and fund compare to 5 Europe power combined? With a massive hit of turkey tourism and economy, they are even more diminished chance of turkey achieving the goal of TFX. It just a pipe dream to in next 20years for TFX.

 

[Basel]

This is nothing buy just plain wishful thinking by you. You are just finding full of excuse for European incompetency. 5th gen fighter is a life and death equipment if they compete with the best. Why would they not developed? As if turkey has more will and fund compare to 5 Europe power combined? With a massive hit of turkey tourism and economy, they are even more diminished chance of turkey achieving the goal of TFX. It just a pipe dream to in next 20years for TFX.

Kindly google about it, and what Dassault is developing after Rafale.