Face Veil removal request in Western Countries

[WarFariX]

and btw why do you always make these sort of controversial threads? don't you have anything better to share or do? like something about air force

 

[Divergent]

What the bloody hell does this even mean? Do you even English?

Also, security situations are different in Pakistan vs USA (for example). Pakistan is hurt by alot of non-state actors working to destabilize Pakistan; it has absolutely nothing to do with face veils or modest clothing. As a matter of fact, Pakistan has some of the highest number of women wearing face veils.

On a political philosophical context, you are comparing two different ideologies. Liberal Western democracies promises you rights, and inclusiveness; Pakistan does not. So you can't compare apples with oranges, Pakistan doesn't even claim to have any of that but West does, therefore we should judge you according to your own standards.

No I'm comparing security on a security matter. Every country will change or take course differently irrespective of WHAT type of security threat is posed. Its simple.

 

[Junoonay]

and btw why do you always make these sort of controversial threads? don't you have anything better to share or do? like something about air force

There is a lot of "Bye, Bye"; "Take a Seat.", but no actual substance to the argument unfortunately.

 

[WarFariX]

There is a lot of "Bye, Bye"; "Take a Seat.", but no actual substance to the argument unfortunately.

so jaaooo...rat hogai hai. Bekar debates karke apko kuch hasil nai hona

 

[Divergent]

There is a lot of "Bye, Bye"; "Take a Seat.", but no actual substance to the argument unfortunately.

There wouldn't be if you don't take quotes of context which I don't have time to explain. Its easier talking about these things and saying 'West does this and West does that' well get out off the West if you really don't like it that much. Quit being hypocrites.

ooo sassy

Haha

 

[Junoonay]

like something about air force

You are asking for a lot here

 

[WarFariX]

You are asking for a lot here

as a junior aviation enthusiast , i love to talk about aviation whole day

 

[abdulbarijan]

It is advisable not enforced. Apples and oranges comparison was you the amount of time I had to emphasise I'm talking about the 'face', keep it to the face.

I've noticed, whenever I bring out a survey or a scientific research, all your argument shifts in to "I'm talking about the face i.e. the niqab, not the hijab". My dear api hazoor, do you really think that 57% of the population who want the burqa gone have any idea about the difference of the burqa, niqab and hijab etc. and that they care at all?

You can't be talking about IPhones and compare it to a TV, you can however talk about IPhones and compare it to Samsungs since they're on the same wave.I am on no high horse but I sure as right have the right to express concerns on a mutual basis. So calm your dull wit.

The point about how 'West brands itself as liberators' I've not opposed, therefore to bring that in again is quite pointless.Openess and inclusiveness are there in place except situations and circumstances may change due to security threats or if it endangers lives. Which it has. In the same sense how Pakistan took millions of Afghans but due to attacks eventually had to close borders, why? Because of security issues right? Does this strip Pakistan off the previous openess it was tolerant of? No. Rather it shows because of the situation it eventually had to close its border down, does this then make Pakistan a 'facist?' Or 'racist'? No.
There are people from Pakistan who want the ban or who also agree that the West is tolerant of attires and gives allowances. What would you say to them?

-Baji huzoor, Pakistan doesn't have a modern network of security the likes of which the US and UK have. Hence, we have to go to those stone age tactics. The west on the other hand has the ability to track your personal data, your buying data, your online data, your phones, your most of the time on camera in public areas, in fact if you refer to recent leaks you'll know that advanced spy agencies can actually monitor you via your own laptop cameras etc. Hence, such a comparison is ridiculous.
-I've been saying alot of stuff to the people of Pakistan who gave the point of view that agrees with yours ... just look up my posts .

 

[Divergent]

I've noticed, whenever I bring out a survey or a scientific research, all your argument shifts in to "I'm talking about the face i.e. the niqab, not the hijab". My dear api hazoor, do you really think that 57% of the population who want the hijab gone will make any compromises on the "face .. I'm talking about the face!"

-Baji huzoor, Pakistan doesn't have a modern network of security the likes of which the US and UK have. Hence, we have to go to those stone age tactics. The west on the other hand has the ability to track your personal data, your buying data, your online data, your phones, your most of the time on camera in public areas, in fact if you refer to recent leaks you'll know that advanced spy agencies can actually monitor you via your own laptop cameras etc. Hence, such a comparison is ridiculous.
-I've been saying alot of stuff to the people of Pakistan who gave the point of view that agrees with yours ... just look up my posts .

The West force especially the police force don't know how to counter a Woman in veil without having them feel offended and it breaking the news. The Last thing they want is distrust between communities. I'm not sure about American police but UK police work very differently. If suspicions occur they don't want it to be a case 'Racism' because it isn't. Unlike the FIR women staff who beat the crap out of passengers at an airport in Islamabad, things work quite differently here.

as a junior aviation enthusiast , i love to talk about aviation whole day

That's cute. My knowledge on Aviation is 0, so I talk and engage in areas I feel comfortable in. Pakistan is my Country too, I can criticize it as well if I want improvements to be made and that doesn't make me 'anti-state'.

Before commenting or judging me please think. Thank you.

 

[abdulbarijan]

The West force especially the police force don't know how to counter a Woman in veil without having them feel offended and it breaking the news. The Last thing they want is distrust between communities. I'm not sure about American police but UK police work very differently. If suspicions occur they don't want it to be a case 'Racism' because it isn't. Unlike the FIR women staff who beat the crap out of passengers at an airport in Islamabad, things work quite differently here.

Hey don't get offended. I like the fact that we can engage in a civil and respectful discussion where your points are more or less always destroyed (kidding btw )

-First of all "FIR" is like a formal complaint to the police ... what your talking about is the FIA (Federal investigation agency) ..Secondly, like I said, there is no comparison. Your talking about the country whose just 70 years old, is quite poor and has a long way to go. We have among the highest illiteracy rates in the world, with the second biggest out of school population after Nigeria, and your comparing our country with UK which is one of the most developed in the world. However, with the FIA thing, it was covered in the media by the likes of Rauf Klasra, people were highly critical of the acts of the staff. So progress I guess

BTW if you want to make jokes, how about this one ... atleast here in Pakistan politicians have to force their way in. The UK people ACTUALLY CHOOSE leaders like these ...

 

[Divergent]

Hey don't get offended. I like the fact that we can engage in a civil and respectful discussion where your points are more or less always destroyed (kidding btw )

-First of all "FIR" is like a formal complaint to the police ... what your talking about is the FIA (Federal investigation agency) ..Secondly, like I said, there is no comparison. Your talking about the country whose just 70 years old, is quite poor and has a long way to go. We have among the highest illiteracy rates in the world, with the second biggest out of school population after Nigeria, and your comparing our country with UK which is one of the most developed in the world. However, with the FIA thing, it was covered in the media by the likes of Rauf Klasra, people were highly critical of the acts of the staff. So progress I guess

I know hence why I debate with you because I take on board some of your points and you take on some of mine. You've not resorted to personal attacks and are well mannered in approach.

LOL my bad 'FIA' yeah that was pretty horrendous.

West maybe advanced in technology but it still experiences challenges. Overall its been a healthy debate and it good to know we can both agree to disagree. You think people shouldn't take off their veil, I agree to that legally, but due to current climate I morally believe to assist and help our fellow non-Muslim citizens, make things easier with them as well as the Muslim community let's meet middle ground for temporary purposes since it IS their land.

I have enjoyed debating with you and I hope you don't mind getting burnt

 

[Menace2Society]

Sorry but people here talk of freedom.....well if a woman chooses to wear it, its her right just like some women choose a bikini (clearly not an abomination). I also think that in the current climate its better to show your face and there are laws that allow police to check the persons identity. so its not a big deal except with the people who make it a big issue.

Which woman walks around the street in a bikini? Nobody does. If she does then she is mentally unwell.

Its not part of Islam and cultural which doesn't belong in the western world.

Muslim countries can do what they want. Probably take them another 50 years to become normal societies.

 

[abdulbarijan]

I know hence why I debate with you because I take on board some of your points and you take on some of mine. You've not resorted to personal attacks and are well mannered in approach.

Funny, I don't remember taking any of your points

LOL my bad 'FIA' yeah that was pretty horrendous.

That was karma for every time you brought the whole niqab, burqa and hijab thing

West maybe advanced in technology but it still experiences challenges. Overall its been a healthy debate and it good to know we can both agree to disagree. You think people shouldn't take off their veil, I agree to that legally, but due to current climate I morally believe to assist and help our fellow non-Muslim citizens, make things easier with them as well as the Muslim community let's meet middle ground for temporary purposes since it IS their land.

Nope, I'm in favor of the freedom of personal choice.

I have enjoyed debating with you and I hope you don't mind getting burnt

 

[Divergent]

Funny, I don't remember taking any of your points

That was karma for every time you brought the whole niqab, burqa and hijab thing

Nope, I'm in favor of the freedom of personal choice.

Well agreeing or not at least you took them smoothly unlike some. Actually, I don't know why you assume I'm anti Hijab or Burqa etc because I know people who observe it and are dear to me. If that's what it's trying to come across as, it's not like that.

 

[abdulbarijan]

Well agreeing or not at least you took them smoothly unlike some. Actually, I don't know why you assume I'm anti Hijab or Burqa etc because I know people who observe it and are dear to me. If that's what it's trying to come across as, it's not like that.

-I never said that your an anti-hijabi or anything. I'm just saying that while you "advise" other people to hand their liberty (in this case by willingly dropping their garments that they WANT to wear and wear of their free choice), they ain't getting that liberty back ... The US is a prime example of that ...

-BTW that argument of "I know people who do/ are xyz" is quite weak if your trying to defend yourself from someone who thinks your a bigot. It's similar to "I have black friends" argument while defending yourself from the accusation of racism