F-16 vs F/A-18 hornet

[PAFAce]

They're both light-to-middle-weight fighters with Multirole Capability, and they both were originally designed as part of the same program. It is not an illogical comparison.

The YF-16 beat the YF-17 Cobra (later developed into the F-18 Hornet) for the USAF Lightweight Fighter Program. That should give you the first clue. Secondly, the F-16 is the superior Within Visual Range fighter, whereas the F/A-18 Super Hornet offers greater survivability and durability. Also, he F-16 is the fighter that can be inducted in larger numbers, whereas the F/A-18 is a fighter you can rely on to generate sortie-after-sortie without much fuss. With the F/A-18, you pay for all the structural modifications that the aircraft incorporated when it was navalized, and hence, in many cases, you're paying for stuff you don't need.

In short, if your needs are similar to those of the US Navy, the Super Hornet is the winner. For everyone else, the F-16 is a far better deal, as proven by its international sales.

As for Transfer of Technology, the MMRCA contest would have been over by now if the US offered full, or even considerable, ToT. The Indians couldn't possibly get a better deal than the F/A-18 or F-16 with full ToT. But, emo_girl has a point, the US does not offer enough ToT even to its closest allies (UK Ministry of Defence learnt this the hard way), that's just not how they roll. Both the Super Hornet and the Fighting Falcon are far beyond the technological capabilities of countries like India, Pakistan, and even Brazil (though their Aero industry is much older), and the United States would want it to stay that way for as long as possible. Once India starts work on a comparable aircraft, suddenly the tech will be made available to them out of the blue.

 

[Patriot]

You know PAFACE, it's really funny how Indians are discrediting F-16 even the newer blocks just because PAF has F-16.Good Good, Too Much Obsession with Pakistan.Half of the posters probably don't even know the technical info to compare them but just looking at the pictures making their own silly comparisons....

 

[Brahm0s]

Yuck F-18 and double yuck F-16. New wines in old bottles lol. i can see many pakistanis desperate india to pick F-18 and F-16 lol. Dream on. Lets talk about Rafael and Typhoon. Why not? Does it hurts? Scary? Lol cheers friends.

 

[Brahm0s]

You know PAFACE, it's really funny how Indians are discrediting F-16 even the newer blocks just because PAF has F-16.Good Good, Too Much Obsession with Pakistan.Half of the posters probably don't even know the technical info to compare them but just looking at the pictures making their own silly comparisons....

Friend we will pic F-16. Happy? Please smile now. We respect F-16. Its very new jet fighter. America too going to use it till long time (2014 lol). Than america will throw it and india will provide america 12 billion dollars to buy it from them. Happy? Lol cheers.

 

[Muradk]

Does anyone of the planes have supercruise.

Hi friend you started a debate which you your self have no knowledge off and then getting into an argument with TAIM and EMO . If you don't even know if they have Supercruise ability why put your self in the snakes pit.

No they don't have Supercruise F-18 super hornet has a powerful engine but not that powerful to go Supercruise.
From my experience Block 52 and Block 60 desert Falcon can go head to head with each other the results are unknown.
Remember that F-16 and F-18 both ran to develop a new fighter and F-18 lost and the F-16 went for mass production later on they decided to get F-18 for Navy.

 

[inferno]

Ya f-16 is very old fighter with old design. Its fighter with first flight in 1974. Now whatever modification they do old will be old. Buuddhi ke kitne bhi daant laga lo rahegi toh buudhi hi.

 

[Muradk]

Ya f-16 is very old fighter with old design. Its fighter with first flight in 1974. Now whatever modification they do old will be old. Buuddhi ke kitne bhi daant laga lo rahegi toh buudhi hi.

During the demo F-16 out performed F-18 in all areas that is why DOD gave the contract to M Douglas for production.

 

[TOPGUN]

To our indian so called friends don't hate by putting the f-16 down here it is still one of the deadliest aircraft on earth iam sure you don't wana wish for the time it is flying over your head & you running to the bathroom lol ! plzz show some respect the mlu's are good with the upgrade bringing them up to standard and the new blocks are a killer forsure ! F-18 is a awsome aircraft as well US likes to use it more for there navy so i dont think it sucks .Furthermore, for you all your info's the US is still using its old & new f-16's & will continue to use its new block's for time to come so stop dreaming and show some respect lets not talk about the flying coffins now!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

To emo_girl

http://www.****************/us-offers-technology-to-win-brazil-fighter-deal-20977/

U.S. Offers Technology To Win Brazil Fighter Deal - Defense News

For ur Kind info, Brazil has started talks with France for Rafale, they have not even 'approached Boeing & SAAB' for negotiations meaning F-18SH is out, because they know exactly what kinda ToT Yankees will offer in case of only 36 A/Cs plus they know Yankees cant be trusted....

Brazil Moves Toward Buying Rafale Jets From Dassault
Sept. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Brazil opened talks with Dassault Aviation SA and France to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said, pointing to broader military cooperation with the French as a key factor in the choice.

Lula said talks started largely because France is offering access to the plane’s technology. The contract would be worth as much as 5 billion euros ($7.2 billion), an official at the French president’s office said on condition of anonymity. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said France plans to buy 10 military transport planes from Empresa Brasileira Aeronautica SA.

“We have today consolidated our strategic partnership with France,” Lula said at a joint news conference in Brasilia.

The choice to move ahead on the sale with Dassault is a blow to competing bidders, Chicago-based Boeing Co. and Sweden’s Saab AB, as Brazil beefs up its military capabilities and seeks to expand access to technology. Should the negotiations work out, Brazil would have about 13 billion euros in arms purchases from France, including the 8 billion-euro accord for submarines and helicopters the countries signed in December.

The fighter jet contract would be worth about 140 million euros for each plane, the official in the office of the French president said. France has committed to building some of the Rafale jets in Brazil and is ready to deliver the first plane as early as 2013, the official said.

Breakthrough Sale

Lula made the announcement as Sarkozy finished a two-day visit to Brazil to push the South American nation to become the first foreign buyer of the Rafale. Dassault in the past five years has suffered a number of defeats on the international export market, leaving the French state until now as its only customer for the Rafale.

“We are doing with the Rafale what we did a year ago with the submarines,” Sarkozy said. “The head of state makes his decision, we start exclusive negotiations. It took nine months for the conclusion of the negotiations for the submarine. It’s a process.”

Boeing Co., which produces the F-18 Super Hornet, and Saab AB, maker of the Gripen plane, haven’t been approached for negotiations, Foreign Affairs Minister Celso Amorim told reporters. Amorim said negotiations with France concern a reasonable price, financial conditions, building the plane in Brazil and allowing Brazil to sell the plane to its Latin American neighbors.

‘Great Aerospace’

“With Lula we want to develop a great aerospace industry. We want to build planes together, develop planes together, sell planes together,” Sarkozy said during the press conference today.

Lula reiterated that Brazil is seeking transfer of the technology required to build parts of the aircraft on its soil, making it a key element for bidders to win the deal.

France is negotiating to sell the fighter to countries including India, Greece, the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

Dassault developed the Rafale to succeed its Mirage model. France’s government is the only customer so far for the jet, with firm orders for 120 aircraft as part of a pledge to buy 294 jets over the next two decades.

Sarkozy said during the press conference the country plans to replace its Lockheed C-130 Hercules military transport planes, starting with 10 KC-390 jets under development by Embraer, as the Sao Jose dos Campos, Brazil-based company is known. The purchase may cost about 500 million euros, according to the official in the French president’s office.

Military Contracts

This is the French leader’s second visit to Brazil after a trip last year during which he signed several military contracts. Brazil’s Senate last week approved a bank loan of 6.1 billion euros that the government will use to build five submarines and 50 helicopters in partnership with France.

Brazilian Defense Minister Nelson Jobim and his French counterpart, Herve Morin, attended the meeting.

Sarkozy is accompanied by seven ministers including Finance Minister Christine Lagarde, Energy Minister Jean- Louis Borloo and Junior Transport Minister Dominique Bussereau. Serge Dassault, the former chairman of the defense contractor who pushed forward the Rafale project, is among the 25 French business leaders accompanying the President
Brazil Moves Toward Buying Rafale Jets From Dassault (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think it will be very difficult for India to take Rafale or Euro fighter after Hillary Clinton's press conference in New Dehli.... And most of the Indians know this fact very well. That's why comparison is being done between F-16 and F-18 only.

 

[Patriot]

Sir Muradk, not worth talking to these indians chaps..they are here just for flaming.

 

[gambit]

They're both light-to-middle-weight fighters with Multirole Capability, and they both were originally designed as part of the same program. It is not an illogical comparison.

<snipped>

In short, if your needs are similar to those of the US Navy, the Super Hornet is the winner. For everyone else, the F-16 is a far better deal, as proven by its international sales.

And combat record. But you got the point corrrect. Each aircraft does the same missions from different needs as the F-18 was primarily a 'navy' aircraft.

It is also a legitimate comparison in the same vein that Dissimilar Air Combat Tactic (DACT) and adversary air training are also legitimate. We learned from analyzing Soviet junks that even though they also have fighters for specific tasks as well as multi-role ones, theirs have different flight characteristics, limitations and unexpected performance levels. However, it can be misleading to focus solely on payload, hard points or top speed.

 

[Brahm0s]

I think it will be very difficult for India to take Rafale or Euro fighter after Hillary Clinton's press conference in New Dehli.... And most of the Indians know this fact very well. That's why comparison is being done between F-16 and F-18 only.

Hehe india going to pick F-16 and F-18 both. Lets celebrate lol. Pakistan mein 'jashan' hoga Lol.

 

[Sapper]

Ya f-16 is very old fighter with old design. Its fighter with first flight in 1974. Now whatever modification they do old will be old. Buuddhi ke kitne bhi daant laga lo rahegi toh buudhi hi.

While we are on the same topic ... i would like to quote something from Wiki.

<WIKI>
There are several related developments of the Su-27 design. The Su-30 is a two-seat, dual-role fighter for all-weather, air-to-air and air-to-surface deep interdiction missions; comparable to F-15E Strike Eagle. Su-33 ‘Flanker-D’ is a navy fleet defense interceptor for use on aircraft carriers; comparable to F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. Further versions include the side-by-side 2-seat Su-34 ‘Fullback’ strike variant and the Su-35 ‘Flanker-E’ improved air defense fighter.

Background

In 1969 the Soviet Union learned of the U.S. Air Force's "F-X" program, which resulted in the F-15 Eagle. The Soviet leadership soon realized that the new American fighter would represent a serious technological advantage over existing Soviet fighters. What was needed was a better-balanced fighter with both good agility and sophisticated systems. In response, the Soviet General Staff issued a requirement for a Perspektivnyy Frontovoy Istrebitel (PFI, literally "Perspective Frontline Fighter", roughly "Advanced Frontline Fighter").[1] Specifications were extremely ambitious, calling for long range, good short-field performance (including the ability to use austere runways), excellent agility, Mach 2+ speed, and heavy armament. The aerodynamic design for the new aircraft was largely carried out by TsAGI in collaboration with the Sukhoi design bureau.

When the specification proved too challenging and costly for a single aircraft in the number needed, the PFI specification was split into two: the LPFI (Lyogkyi PFI, Lightweight PFI) and the TPFI (Tyazholyi PFI, Heavy PFI). The LPFI program resulted in the MiG-29, a relatively short-range tactical fighter, while the TPFI program was assigned to Sukhoi OKB, which eventually produced the Su-27 and its various derivatives. The TPFI program is similar to the American F-X program, which resulted in the F-15 Eagle, while the LPFI program is similar to the Lightweight Fighter program, which spawned the F-16 Fighting Falcon and the Northrop YF-17, which itself led to the F/A-18 Hornet.

Design phase

The Sukhoi design, which was altered progressively to reflect Soviet awareness of the F-15's specifications, emerged as the T-10 (Sukhoi's 10th delta wing design), which first flew on 20 May 1977.

</WIKI>




This is the origins of the fighter, whole Indian nation is proud of ... either you are a fool ... or your entire nation is.

 

[inferno]

While we are on the same topic ... i would like to quote something from Wiki.

<WIKI>
There are several related developments of the Su-27 design. The Su-30 is a two-seat, dual-role fighter for all-weather, air-to-air and air-to-surface deep interdiction missions; comparable to F-15E Strike Eagle. Su-33 &#8216;Flanker-D&#8217; is a navy fleet defense interceptor for use on aircraft carriers; comparable to F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. Further versions include the side-by-side 2-seat Su-34 &#8216;Fullback&#8217; strike variant and the Su-35 &#8216;Flanker-E&#8217; improved air defense fighter.

Background

In 1969 the Soviet Union learned of the U.S. Air Force's "F-X" program, which resulted in the F-15 Eagle. The Soviet leadership soon realized that the new American fighter would represent a serious technological advantage over existing Soviet fighters. What was needed was a better-balanced fighter with both good agility and sophisticated systems. In response, the Soviet General Staff issued a requirement for a Perspektivnyy Frontovoy Istrebitel (PFI, literally "Perspective Frontline Fighter", roughly "Advanced Frontline Fighter").[1] Specifications were extremely ambitious, calling for long range, good short-field performance (including the ability to use austere runways), excellent agility, Mach 2+ speed, and heavy armament. The aerodynamic design for the new aircraft was largely carried out by TsAGI in collaboration with the Sukhoi design bureau.

When the specification proved too challenging and costly for a single aircraft in the number needed, the PFI specification was split into two: the LPFI (Lyogkyi PFI, Lightweight PFI) and the TPFI (Tyazholyi PFI, Heavy PFI). The LPFI program resulted in the MiG-29, a relatively short-range tactical fighter, while the TPFI program was assigned to Sukhoi OKB, which eventually produced the Su-27 and its various derivatives. The TPFI program is similar to the American F-X program, which resulted in the F-15 Eagle, while the LPFI program is similar to the Lightweight Fighter program, which spawned the F-16 Fighting Falcon and the Northrop YF-17, which itself led to the F/A-18 Hornet.

Design phase

The Sukhoi design, which was altered progressively to reflect Soviet awareness of the F-15's specifications, emerged as the T-10 (Sukhoi's 10th delta wing design), which first flew on 20 May 1977.

</WIKI>




This is the origins of the fighter, whole Indian nation is proud of ... either you are a fool ... or your entire nation is.

first of all there is no mension of su-30 here with first fligt date.
And also there is vast difference between su-30 first flown and su-30MKI of today. Most of the things have been modified. Unlike f-16 same as 1974.