Duterte veers off speech, launches tirade on US killings in front of Obama

[艹艹艹]

Hes amazing!

He is a wise man

 

[oprih]

Nice.

 

[xiao qi]

he deserves oscar prize for best comedy actor in 2016 i like him

 

[Economic superpower]

Well done Duterte.

This is the kind of no nonsense leader the Philippines needed.

This Yankee worshipping had to end someday.

It seems the Filipino people have finally had enough of Western worshipping and decided to stand up for itself.

 

[ahojunk]

Friendly reminder to stay on topic or create another thread to continue your discussion.

 

[艹艹艹]

duterte wants to save Asia，
I love this man

 

[anon45]

Obama is the face of American, the person who holds the office of president, and represent it, so if someone is insulting it, infact insulting America itself as a state.

Obama is indeed the head representative of the United States of America.

As for the rest about insults...
Then I have to question what meaning your definition of respect has, because it seems like that of an insecure person whose self-respect is damaged by whatever others say. Why should the US care if people are insulting the president or burning American flags if they will nonetheless follow or move out of the way in mutual agreement,respect, or fear, if you prefer, of American interests and the power the US can bring to the defense of them?

It is just not this one incident, look at the bigger geopolitical picture. America has become its own enemy. From Philippines to Turkey, to grass root levels , the goodwill that once existed for America has long gone.

Again, you are looking at words and not actions. What actual physical actions have Turkey and the Philippines taken to break with the US? Im not talking about talking, I'm talking about tangible, action. Turkey hasn't even closed Inclerk, they are very much still in bedrock American coalitions despite the negative public sentiment, because its in the national interest of Turkey.

There was a time when questioning America in Pakistan was considered blasphemy and I am witness to that period, how from that extreme we have come to present situation.

Alliances change, and believe me, public opinion of Pakistan in the US is just as bad as Pakistani opinion of the US, especially after Osama was found to be right next to a military academy. Nonetheless the US and Pakistan keep up the facade at least, what does this tell you?

Tell tail signs are there, signs of a power in decline.

How so? Allies are never permanent.
More importantly we are not one-sidedly losing allies as you are trying to portray, we are also forging new relationships from old adversaries. We see increased cooperation with India. Likewise we are forging new dialogues and agreements with Cuba, Vietnam and formerly neutral states like Finland and Sweden. Ukraine as well. If anything America has more potential allies than ever.

America is telling its Anglo Saxon Aussie cousins to choose between China or them.

Show me the official statement.

American presence in greater ME is now reduced to Israel. Picking up unnecessary fights with other powers like Russia and China.

Where has American presence shrunk specifically (by presence I presume you mean troops and bases?)


Im still waiting for Turkey to break with the US and shut down Inclerk.


Additionally It seems like Duterte is now saying that he did not insult Obama and that the media took it out of context and twisted his words.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/philippines-duterte-tells-obama-cursed-41970096

Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte said Friday he told President Barack Obama during their encounter in Laos that he never cursed him.

On a visit to Indonesia, Duterte told the Filipino community there that he told Obama: "President Obama, I'm President Duterte. I never made that statement, check it out."

He said that Obama responded: "'My men will talk to you,' and he replied 'OK.'"

Duterte blamed the media for distorting his words, saying he did utter "son of a bitch" but it was not directed at Obama.

Before traveling to Laos for regional summits, Duterte said Monday that Obama should not question him about the rising death toll in his war on drugs, which has been criticized abroad and by Duterte's opponents in the Philippines. More than 2,800 suspected drug dealers and users have been killed since Duterte took office.

Asked how he would explain the killings to Obama, he said in a long answer that the Philippines has long ceased to be a colony of the United States and he ddid not have a master except the Filipino people.

"I do not care about him. Who is he?" Duterte said. "You must be respectful. Do not just throw questions and statements. Putang Ina, I will swear at you at that forum," he added, using the Tagalog phrase for "son of a bitch."

Obama then canceled a meeting with Duterte in Laos but the two met informally on Wednesday in a holding room before attending a gala dinner.

Duterte, who assumed the presidency in June, has had an uneasy relationship with the U.S., his country's longtime treaty ally. He has said he is charting a foreign policy not dependent on the U.S., and has moved to reduce tensions with China over rival territorial claims.

He also said he showed a picture of an atrocity during the U.S. pacification campaign in the southern Philippines at the beginning of the last century at the East Asia Summit in Laos that included Obama, in order to stop criticism over human rights violations in the war on illegal drugs. The photograph showed about 200 dead Filipino Moros stacked in a common pit, with an American soldier holding a rifle while stepping on the breasts of a naked Moro woman.

He said he told the leaders, "This is human rights, what do you intend to do?" and "Human rights violations whether committed by Moses or Abraham, is still violation of human rights."

The whole room was silent and he waited for Obama to respond but he remained quiet, Duterte said.

I have read from multiple Filipinos that what he said would be equivalent to saying 'god damnit' or some other general expletive.

I hold that even if this is true that he has a responsibility to what people hear as well as what he says, and be mindful of what he says, precisely because he is the representative of his country.

 

[TaiShang]

Mr. Duterte's intention was to insult the US regime, as he has no personal grudge against President Obama. Why would he? It just happens that Mr. Obama represents the US state.

PH president's intention became obvious on his later remarks on US colonialism and present day interventionism in PH's internal affairs.

Hence, he said, he will follow a more independent path in foreign policies, make friends with everybody, putting regional ties in priority, and reducing the obvious one-sided dependency on the US.

Hopefully, he will not be another Hatoyama in the making, who was brought down by the US prematurely.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Obama is indeed the head representative of the United States of America.

As for the rest about insults...
Then I have to question what meaning your definition of respect has, because it seems like that of an insecure person whose self-respect is damaged by whatever others say. Why should the US care if people are insulting the president or burning American flags if they will nonetheless follow or move out of the way in mutual agreement,respect, or fear, if you prefer, of American interests and the power the US can bring to the defense of them?

I think I was not speaking rocket science here. A head of state calling a counter part from another state a SOB, is unheard of. This is what America has been reduced to. Obama as a man is nothing, its the office which he represent matter and that is the office which is mocked.

Again, you are looking at words and not actions. What actual physical actions have Turkey and the Philippines taken to break with the US? Im not talking about talking, I'm talking about tangible, action. Turkey hasn't even closed Inclerk, they are very much still in bedrock American coalitions despite the negative public sentiment, because its in the national interest of Turkey.

Why your whole argument is revolving around just one airbase? Look at the bigger picture, you are trying very hard to somehow contain and created nuisance for your perceived global challengers are failing miserably. Tried to block upper black sea access to Russia by invoking Ukrain crisis, ended up with annexation of cremia, then tried to choke the lower basin of Black sea, the Bosporus by creating tensions between Turkey and Russia through Gulenists, which eventually lead to failed turkish coup attempt, and the result was, Erdogen taking first flight to Moscow to mend ties. Philippines, the blue eyed boy and jewel in crown in American Asia pivot project, ended up seeking Chinese arms.

Alliances change, and believe me, public opinion of Pakistan in the US is just as bad as Pakistani opinion of the US, especially after Osama was found to be right next to a military academy. Nonetheless the US and Pakistan keep up the facade at least, what does this tell you?

OBL is over used and tbh non issue anymore when we look at bigger picture as to how American pumped Pakistan mortal enemy India for around two decades to become a major security threat for us. And yes Alliances changes with changing geopolitics. I am off the opinion that Pakistan needs to have a strategic disengagement with America, kinda at arms length dealing. nothing more nothing less.

How so? Allies are never permanent.
More importantly we are not one-sidedly losing allies as you are trying to portray, we are also forging new relationships from old adversaries. We see increased cooperation with India. Likewise we are forging new dialogues and agreements with Cuba, Vietnam and formerly neutral states like Finland and Sweden. Ukraine as well. If anything America has more potential allies than ever.

Please refer to my post above and add Saudi Arabia in that list as well. If you believe that from being a sole super power to current multi polar world in such a short span of time is not a tell tale sign, then no wonder you lot a now closely aligning yourself with our eastern neighbors.

Show me the official statement.

There was a post here last week or so where American official was openly giving Aussies threats of with us or against us on the matter of China. Feel feel to search.

USA has lost allies! Where? In Muslim world. It is not even a quarter of the world, and grassroot support here count for crap as Muslim governments are dictatorial or monarchical, and its people brainless drones.

What you are ignoring is that in last five years, USA has hogged more allies since formation of NATO. Whole of East Asia is pro-US and getting more pro-US with each passing year ,including previously sworn enemies like Vietnam. India is getting allied with US shedding its non-aligned philosophy. Anti-US socialists in Latin America are losing elections left and Right. Last half a decade or so has been very good for USA's foreign policy.

Muslim world , Russia and China, thats a formidable list of adversaries one wouldnt like to have specially at a time when all three of them are now closing ranks between them. Vietnam and latin america, well I wont comment of them as I am not fimiliar with their politics or their clout on geopolitics. As for India, American alliance with India goes to show what America has been reduced to. Looking out for a nation of Zombies and extreme poverty stricken people as a saving grace.

From a sole super power to this present time where world is clearly divided into multi polar power structure, and all happening in very short period of time considering downfall of Soviet Union seems like a recent past. And you think last decade been very good for American forigen policy?

 

[anon45]

I think I was not speaking rocket science here. A head of state calling a counter part from another state a SOB, is unheard of. This is what America has been reduced to. Obama as a man is nothing, its the office which he represent matter and that is the office which is mocked.

Given recent events, I'm more inclined to believe he really was intent on disrespecting the US at this point, no matter what he says otherwise (and he has said otherwise). Actions indeed speak louder than words, and Duterte has shown more than words at this point, so I concede the point that Obama has projected weakness here by leaving Duterte with the initiative. Sometimes quick decisive action is called for here, and Obama failed this test barring some sort of masterful diplomacy/coercion in the future (which I don't expect)

Regardless, what would you have done in his place?

Why your whole argument is revolving around just one airbase? Look at the bigger picture, you are trying very hard to somehow contain and created nuisance for your perceived global challengers are failing miserably. Tried to block upper black sea access to Russia by invoking Ukrain crisis, ended up with annexation of cremia, then tried to choke the lower basin of Black sea, the Bosporus by creating tensions between Turkey and Russia through Gulenists, which eventually lead to failed turkish coup attempt, and the result was, Erdogen taking first flight to Moscow to mend ties. Philippines, the blue eyed boy and jewel in crown in American Asia pivot project, ended up seeking Chinese arms.

You are essentially propagating conspiracy theory at this point re: the Turkish coup, and blaming the US for the Ukrainian crisis. I won't reply further to either of those because I don't feel like going through talking about this same crap again when I don't have any real chance of changing your mind even if I point out the inadequacies of whatever proof you have. Lets just agree to disagree.

Otherwise, its often said it aint over til the fat lady sings, but it is likely at this point that Obama's foreign policy overall can be considered a failure barring major changes. Opening up with Cuba does not outweigh the current setbacks that aren't just happening in the Middle-East (Libya), but the Philippines as well. Even if we've grown strategically closer with South Korea and Japan, that was due more to Chinese missteps (or percieved Chinese powerlessness over North Korea if you want) than anything Obama did. Perhaps there was nothing he could do about it, but it happened on his watch, so it stops with him.

This won't knock the US out of the area, but it is a dent to US policy in the area. It can be recovered from though.

OBL is over used and tbh non issue anymore when we look at bigger picture as to how American pumped Pakistan mortal enemy India for around two decades to become a major security threat for us. And yes Alliances changes with changing geopolitics. I am off the opinion that Pakistan needs to have a strategic disengagement with America, kinda at arms length dealing. nothing more nothing less.

Osama being in Pakistan next to a military academy is not a non-issue here in the US, I won't say it was a shock, but it was a confirmation. I think there will be a strategic disengagement and hope for it as well, neither side benefits from the current state of affairs, the mutual distrust is just too deep we might as well make the adversarial relationship formal at this point.

Please refer to my post above and add Saudi Arabia in that list as well. If you believe that from being a sole super power to current multi polar world in such a short span of time is not a tell tale sign, then no wonder you lot a now closely aligning yourself with our eastern neighbors.

If your definition of decline includes the rise of the rest then I can accept that, we never had it in us to keep everyone else down and out the way it would be required to maintain being a sole superpower on those terms. We like trade too much. If we did we would have done it in 1946. We can accept being strongest among other powers instead of being overwhelmingly strong.

There was a post here last week or so where American official was openly giving Aussies threats of with us or against us on the matter of China. Feel feel to search.

I am familiar with what article you are referring to and he wasn't an official speaking for the US government, he was an assistant chief of staff (a soldier) speaking his own personal opinion. He even said it was his own personal opinion and said it did not reflect the view of the US government. This was confirmed by the Pentagon.

 

[usernameless]

Again, you are looking at words and not actions. What actual physical actions have Turkey and the Philippines taken to break with the US? Im not talking about talking, I'm talking about tangible, action. Turkey hasn't even closed Inclerk, they are very much still in bedrock American coalitions despite the negative public sentiment, because its in the national interest of Turkey.

We will go further off-topic, but i need to reply. We can continue in the Cay Bahcesi thread in the Turkish section, if you like.

You can count on it that once Turkey gets more self-sufficient (was 65% in 2014) in critical systems and components AND is done with the Nato projects it is currently active in, it will most certainly reduce excessive US/Nato military and geopolitical ties. Don't think short term, the only reason Turkish politics plays along with the US for now is that it is indeed foolish to give up those current Nato projects (knowledge and experience source for our defence industry), not because Turkish politicians and public love the US, but in the long term (some years, maybe decades) don't be surprised if Turkey will distance itself from the US/Nato. Of course from now on the US can also forget 'using' Turkey in possible adventures against Russia or in the ME since trust is gone. The US basically can forget long term positive ties, unless the US manages to 'regime change' the current and future like-minded Turkish leadership

 

[anon45]

We will go further off-topic, but i need to reply. We can continue in the Cay Bahcesi thread in the Turkish section, if you like.

You can count on it that once Turkey gets more self-sufficient (was 65% in 2014) in critical systems and components AND is done with the Nato projects it is currently active in, it will most certainly reduce excessive US/Nato military and geopolitical ties. Don't think short term, the only reason Turkish politics plays along with the US for now is that it is indeed foolish to give up those current Nato projects (knowledge and experience source for our defence industry), not because Turkish politicians and public love the US, but in the long term (some years, maybe decades) don't be surprised if Turkey will distance itself from the US/Nato. Of course from now on the US can also forget 'using' Turkey in possible adventures against Russia or in the ME since trust is gone. The US basically can forget long term positive ties, unless the US manages to 'regime change' the current and future like-minded Turkish leadership

When that happens lets talk about it more in the future.