Duterte: ‘Filipinos may sacrifice a little bit if US break ties with PH’

[randomradio]

china can get into the Pacific no matter what. with or without the Philiphines in the equation. you gotta remember the Philiphines armed forces are a joke material wise.

i say good for the Philiphines let'em do their own thing, they already backstabbed us once over Subic bay why not do it again.

The first island chain is broken. Before this China did not have access to the Pacific. They were blocked in their home waters by a sensor chain, now they will get to move their fleet in the Philippines archipelago undetected.

 

[C130]

The first island chain is broken. Before this China did not have access to the Pacific. They were blocked in their home waters by a sensor chain, now they will get to move their fleet in the Philippines archipelago undetected.

if you are implying we know where all Chinese subs are in and around the Philpphines archipelago I find that hard to believe, especially the Kilo subs the dark holes of the Pacific.

we don't need the Philippines and we don't need to contain China.

let the Philppines and ASEAN deal with China without us meddling.

 

[randomradio]

if you are implying we know where all Chinese subs are in and around the Philpphines archipelago I find that hard to believe, especially the Kilo subs the dark holes of the Pacific.

we don't need the Philippines and we don't need to contain China.

let the Philppines and ASEAN deal with China without us meddling.

It created a detection chain for early warning.

The US objective is to contain China, that's why the Pivot to Asia.

 

[gambit]

Venezuela has no strategic importance, Philippines does. They can give the Chinese direct access to the Pacific Ocean, they don't have that right now.

You are wrong. And the PDF Chinese are laughing at you.

The Philippines cannot challenge China regarding the SCS and EVERYONE in the region knows it. The Filipinos are in no position to 'give' China anything, other than a pledge of fealty.

I can see that you are not a serious student of history. Could Hitler conquered Poland ? Yes he could and Germany did. But why did Hitler offered Poland peace ? Because from a strictly tactical perspective, no matter how superior you are, it make eminent sense to have your oppositions submit to you without fighting. War is costly, even to the superior. If one Asian country submit to China, even indirectly like how Duterte want, that is one less potential enemy China have to fight. If one can fall, so can another, and it is far less costly to my purse in terms of bribes than in terms of warfare.

 

[randomradio]

You are wrong. And the PDF Chinese are laughing at you.

The Philippines cannot challenge China regarding the SCS and EVERYONE in the region knows it. The Filipinos are in no position to 'give' China anything, other than a pledge of fealty.

I can see that you are not a serious student of history. Could Hitler conquered Poland ? Yes he could and Germany did. But why did Hitler offered Poland peace ? Because from a strictly tactical perspective, no matter how superior you are, it make eminent sense to have your oppositions submit to you without fighting. War is costly, even to the superior. If one Asian country submit to China, even indirectly like how Duterte want, that is one less potential enemy China have to fight. If one can fall, so can another, and it is far less costly to my purse in terms of bribes than in terms of warfare.

Incorrect. You are talking about a foreign diplomacy victory for the whole of China, I'm particularly referring to PLAN.

Now there won't be any US military overflight over Philippines, so Chinese ships and subs will get significantly less obtrusive access into the Pacific through the Philippines.

Before that the US and allies could watch the waters all the way from Kyushu to Singapore. Now there's a big hole in the ocean which the Chinese can obviously use to their advantage.

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au...hinese-coast-within-sensor-net/14293190401772

This is similar to Hitler's invasion of Western Europe through Belgium.

 

[gambit]

if you are implying we know where all Chinese subs are in and around the Philpphines archipelago I find that hard to believe,...

I do not .

...especially the Kilo subs the dark holes of the Pacific.

Not as 'dark' as you think.

First...Knowing what the enemy has is the starting point.

Second...Know the local terrain, or more precisely, the underwater terrain.

Third...Combine the above two items.

- China's sub force is not (yet) a 'blue water' force, meaning those subs are littoral (shallow) boats.

- For any sub of any size, the safety maneuvering margin is at least two boat lengths in depth. For example, to use a rounded off figure, if a sub is 100 m in length, there should be at least 200 m above and below to allow vertical axis room for combat maneuvers.

First + Second + Third = We know where to look (listen) for Chinese subs in the SCS and even off Chinese mainland coast.

 

[rott]

That guy should fix his home country first instead of worrying about hillary and bush's land.

That guy is an idiot banana. Trying to be all white while covered with yellow.

 

[gambit]

Incorrect. You are talking about a foreign diplomacy victory for the whole of China, I'm particularly referring to PLAN.

Now there won't be any US military overflight over Philippines, so Chinese ships and subs will get significantly less obtrusive access into the Pacific through the Philippines.

Before that the US and allies could watch the waters all the way from Kyushu to Singapore. Now there's a big hole in the ocean which the Chinese can obviously use to their advantage.

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au...hinese-coast-within-sensor-net/14293190401772

This is similar to Hitler's invasion of Western Europe through Belgium.

You missed the point, as usual...

When you said this...

They can give the Chinese direct access to the Pacific Ocean, they don't have that right now.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/duterte-...eak-ties-with-ph’.451982/page-4#ixzz4LckI5L2W

You are wrong.

Right now, there is not a single Asian country that has direct access to the SCS that is any position to 'give' China anything. China can simply take, whether what was taken belonged to anyone or not. This is not about US overflights over the Philippines. This is about the PLAN literally taking control of the SCS and there is nothing anyone other than the US and JPN can do about it.

According to you, somehow China needs the Philippines to further secure her claim to the SCS. That is nonsense. Once Duterte submit his country to Chinese rule, the Chinese can simply take whatever they want. Consultation would merely be a formality.

 

[dingyibvs]

What prevents China from accessing the Pacific isn't the Filipinos per se, but the Americans on Filipino soil and in Filipino waters. Duterte can give the Chinese direct access to the Pacific by kicking the Americans out of the Philippines.

 

[randomradio]

You missed the point, as usual...

When you said this...


You are wrong.

Right now, there is not a single Asian country that has direct access to the SCS that is any position to 'give' China anything. China can simply take, whether what was taken belonged to anyone or not. This is not about US overflights over the Philippines. This is about the PLAN literally taking control of the SCS and there is nothing anyone other than the US and JPN can do about it.

According to you, somehow China needs the Philippines to further secure her claim to the SCS. That is nonsense. Once Duterte submit his country to Chinese rule, the Chinese can simply take whatever they want. Consultation would merely be a formality.

You are missing the point as usual. I wasn't talking about SCS, they already have control over that. I'm talking about the Big Blue to the east of the Philippines. That's why I'm talking about the First Island Chain.

Right now, the Chinese have greater chances of getting direct access to the Pacific (not the SCS, the Pacific Ocean) without some large sensor node picking their movements.

+++++++++
I told you this back in Feb:
However, China has more pressing needs around its immediate neighbourhood. Their bickering with Japan over airspace and island disputes, and with Korea over the EEZ line and more island disputes. Their bigger dispute with Taiwan. Their island disputes in the SCS. With all these in their plate, they don't have the time to antagonize India over some rocks in the Himalayas, and they have no issues with access to Africa and the Middle East today.

So the US will be bogged down in dealing with China over all these issues, not India. That's why it's not surprising that the US is doing everything possible to bring India to its side.

What's special about ASEAN is it has half the population of India's. It has an economy that's slightly bigger. It will eventually have the same economic clout as Europe in the future. So China will have to deal with them before they have to deal with India over access to the IOR.

Losing Philippines is a huge diplomatic loss to the US, and it directly affects other countries in the region.

This post back in March:
https://defence.pk/threads/get-ready-india-china’s-navy-is-pushing-west.424878/#post-8210192
The problem with China is they don't have access to an ocean for submarine operations. The average depth of the Yellow Sea is 40 meters. The average depth of the East China Sea is 350m. It is a bit better but the coastline is still very shallow. It is much deeper closer to the Japanese island chains.

Access to the sea is practically impossible from the Yellow Sea and the East China Sea. With cooperation with the Japanese, Taiwanese and Filipinos, who are securely in the American camp, the Americans can easily monitor their submarine activities. Basically, without Taiwan, the Chinese have very limited access to the world's oceans. The US can setup choke points to monitor their activities. The US has something similar between the UK, Iceland and Greenland against the Russians.

As for South China Sea, the US has a much smaller presence among the countries there, like Indonesia and Vietnam. And the SCS is deeper, so submarine operations can be conducted with relative ease, including trying to gain access to the Pacific Ocean. This makes the SCS their most important sea. The lack of a peer competitor in the vicinity gives them more freedom to navigate. They do not have the same freedom in the Yellow Sea and East China Sea because of the Japanese. The PLAN is basically boxed in.

This map shows why they are so interested in the SCS.

+++++++++

So congratulations, your administration effed up and other countries will suffer for it. You literally handed the Chinese a first class ticket into the Big Blue (again, not the SCS).

Any military commander will know what a tremendous blunder this is.

 

[James David]

The point is we are about to loose an ally and a friend. The Filipinos has shed blood with and gave their lives for Uncle Sam. Please @C130 stop this talk about we don't need the Philippines talk why the hell do you think we have maintained presence there for more than 100 years?

Gentlemen I for one is not very familiar with how Geopolitics work, I have been to the PI though when I was in the service and when I do business trips. The Filipino Soldier can hold their own and many of them I consider my friends to this day. Give them the weapons and they will give you a run for your money.

We screwed up lets accept it and the Filipinos got fed up with our BS, we must do something to fix things. Hell I can name a few countries who are recipients to massive aids from the US of A and yet these countries always manage to stab us in the back every time they have the chance. If it was up to me, I'll give them all the weapon short of Nuclear ones and arm them to the teeth.

Now guys please mellow down with the rhetoric's and all that this is not about China and what have you, this is about the relationship between the PI and USA.

@gambit sir, were you ever deployed to the PI? May I have your opinion on the matter sir?

@ahojunk sir, please monitor the thread some members are posting out of the topic.


- James

@jerry_tan , @Kababayan88, @Cossack25A1 , @Pinoy I have been to this Fort near Manila the food was great but the humidity was a killer!!!! I hope to come and visit the PI again next year. Such warm and hospitable people and did I mention the best tasting beer the horse its called I think?

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Both Randomradio and gambit are right

Randomradio is right that China is chain-locked from Kyushu to Taiwan.
Gambit is right in that the Chinese do not need the PH to get unfaltered access to the Pacific for their ships- but they would be detected and monitored.

The easiest way to solve the chain-locked question is to prepare for the eventual requisition of Liuqiu islands aka Ryukyu islands 琉球群岛 in Chinese and 琉球諸島 in japanese (that's right the japanese name is a direct rendering of the Chinese name for it)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Ryukyu_Islands

and Chinese academic have already pointed all these out

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/15/china-okinawa-dispute-japan-ryukyu
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/w...in-china-to-press-claim-for-okinawa.html?_r=0

Solving the Diaoyu Question will involve solving the Liuqiu Question concurrently and thus- solve the 'Unhindered access to the Pacific Question'

Now is not the time yet. global Beidou coverage still needs to be up. J-20A still needs to acheive full IOC.

Time is on China's side.

 

[Cossack25A1]

You are missing the point as usual. I wasn't talking about SCS, they already have control over that. I'm talking about the Big Blue to the east of the Philippines. That's why I'm talking about the First Island Chain.

Right now, the Chinese have greater chances of getting direct access to the Pacific (not the SCS, the Pacific Ocean) without some large sensor node picking their movements.

+++++++++
I told you this back in Feb:
However, China has more pressing needs around its immediate neighbourhood. Their bickering with Japan over airspace and island disputes, and with Korea over the EEZ line and more island disputes. Their bigger dispute with Taiwan. Their island disputes in the SCS. With all these in their plate, they don't have the time to antagonize India over some rocks in the Himalayas, and they have no issues with access to Africa and the Middle East today.

So the US will be bogged down in dealing with China over all these issues, not India. That's why it's not surprising that the US is doing everything possible to bring India to its side.

What's special about ASEAN is it has half the population of India's. It has an economy that's slightly bigger. It will eventually have the same economic clout as Europe in the future. So China will have to deal with them before they have to deal with India over access to the IOR.

Losing Philippines is a huge diplomatic loss to the US, and it directly affects other countries in the region.

This post back in March:
https://defence.pk/threads/get-ready-india-china’s-navy-is-pushing-west.424878/#post-8210192
The problem with China is they don't have access to an ocean for submarine operations. The average depth of the Yellow Sea is 40 meters. The average depth of the East China Sea is 350m. It is a bit better but the coastline is still very shallow. It is much deeper closer to the Japanese island chains.

Access to the sea is practically impossible from the Yellow Sea and the East China Sea. With cooperation with the Japanese, Taiwanese and Filipinos, who are securely in the American camp, the Americans can easily monitor their submarine activities. Basically, without Taiwan, the Chinese have very limited access to the world's oceans. The US can setup choke points to monitor their activities. The US has something similar between the UK, Iceland and Greenland against the Russians.

As for South China Sea, the US has a much smaller presence among the countries there, like Indonesia and Vietnam. And the SCS is deeper, so submarine operations can be conducted with relative ease, including trying to gain access to the Pacific Ocean. This makes the SCS their most important sea. The lack of a peer competitor in the vicinity gives them more freedom to navigate. They do not have the same freedom in the Yellow Sea and East China Sea because of the Japanese. The PLAN is basically boxed in.

This map shows why they are so interested in the SCS.

+++++++++

So congratulations, your administration effed up and other countries will suffer for it. You literally handed the Chinese a first class ticket into the Big Blue (again, not the SCS).

Any military commander will know what a tremendous blunder this is.

You mean the Second Island Chain which would include Guam and the Philippines' Benham plateau.

The point is we are about to loose an ally and a friend. The Filipinos has shed blood with and gave their lives for Uncle Sam. Please @C130 stop this talk about we don't need the Philippines talk why the hell do you think we have maintained presence there for more than 100 years?

Gentlemen I for one is not very familiar with how Geopolitics work, I have been to the PI though when I was in the service and when I do business trips. The Filipino Soldier can hold their own and many of them I consider my friends to this day. Give them the weapons and they will give you a run for your money.

We screwed up lets accept it and the Filipinos got fed up with our BS, we must do something to fix things. Hell I can name a few countries who are recipients to massive aids from the US of A and yet these countries always manage to stab us in the back every time they have the chance. If it was up to me, I'll give them all the weapon short of Nuclear ones and arm them to the teeth.

Now guys please mellow down with the rhetoric's and all that this is not about China and what have you, this is about the relationship between the PI and USA.

@gambit sir, were you ever deployed to the PI? May I have your opinion on the matter sir?

@ahojunk sir, please monitor the thread some members are posting out of the topic.


- James

@jerry_tan , @Kababayan88, @Cossack25A1 , @Pinoy I have been to this Fort near Manila the food was great but the humidity was a killer!!!! I hope to come and visit the PI again next year. Such warm and hospitable people and did I mention the best tasting beer the horse its called I think?


View attachment 338963

In this forum, if it involves bad news in regards to the relations of the Philippines and US due to Pres. Duterte's tirades, it is the PDF Chinese Battalion that brings up things

For example in a thread that is about Duterte and China, Beast (and others that joined the bandwagon) accused me of being a Race Traitor despite that these people have zero percent idea on who I am in real life.

 

[randomradio]

You mean the Second Island Chain which would include Guam and the Philippines' Benham plateau.

The first chain because it goes down all the way to Singapore, and includes the Philippines.

The first chain will soon be bypassed through the Philippines if this nonsense continues.

 

[Cossack25A1]

The first chain because it goes down all the way to Singapore, and includes the Philippines.

The first chain will soon be bypassed through the Philippines if this nonsense continues.

Since Pres. Duterte just said that he would allow Mainlanders to lease PH land for 120 years, that may also include Benham Plateau.