Dutch Muslims condemn MP's film

[doobie87]

The Dutch Muslim Council has attacked far-right Dutch MP Geert Wilders' politics as "racist and fascist".

The council, which includes 200 organisations, appealed for calm ahead of the planned release by the MP of a controversial film.

Mr Wilders says his film will show the Koran as an inspiration for murder.

The Dutch Muslim Council said its members' message to the Muslim and non-Muslim world was that conflict would do no-one any good.

At a packed news conference, the council attacked Geert Wilders' right-wing politics as "racist, fascist and authoritarian" and a threat to Dutch society.

The council appealed to Mr Wilders' supporters to consider the consequences of his film after it was released.

Mr Wilders said the Dutch authorities had let him know that he may have to leave the country for his own safety.

The government is preparing for possible reactions to the film in the Netherlands and overseas, but it is adamant that freedom of expression at the heart of the Dutch constitution must be guaranteed.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Dutch Muslims condemn MP's film

-Does this constitute freedom of expression?
-What possible reaction(s) will this film induce?
-American movies and cartoons make fun of Jesus 24/7, while they are condemned by a small minority, I doubt there has ever been a violent demonstration in response to any such cartoon or movie. Why then does the Muslim population respond so harshly? after all it is only one man's opinion, it is up to everyone else to decide whether or not they agree with him, if he feels a certain way about an issue why stop him or even threaten him from expressing himself? it is his birth right, right?

 

[mujahideen]

This is just one reason why their is so much hate found in the Muslims for the Western world. I think this movie should not be shown and if it is, then I call on all Muslim coutries to boycott Dutch goods. Now I am not calling for violent protests, we must learn to protest in a peaceful manner.

 

[HK-47]

^agreed.it will be more effective than breaking and wrecking.

Why then does the Muslim population respond so harshly?

lol Freedom of Expression.

 

[roadrunner]

-Does this constitute freedom of expression?

There is a line to draw here surely. Would it be freedom of expression if I called you say a racist name? If it would not be, then freedom of expression does have limits.

If freedom of expression has limits then what are they, and who sets them. That's the main questions. Should one group of people be telling another group of people what they should find insulting? I don't think so.

-What possible reaction(s) will this film induce?

Probably the same as the other one by Theo van Gogh, unless that was an isolated incident.

-American movies and cartoons make fun of Jesus 24/7, while they are condemned by a small minority, I doubt there has ever been a violent demonstration in response to any such cartoon or movie.

Then you'd be wrong, there have been some instances in the past of this.

Why then does the Muslim population respond so harshly? after all it is only one man's opinion, it is up to everyone else to decide whether or not they agree with him, if he feels a certain way about an issue why stop him or even threaten him from expressing himself? it is his birth right, right?

Dunno, I couldn't care less what the Dutch think to be honest

 

[OKtoBerFeSt]

The point is that religion has fallen out with western intellectuals. If its kosher to ridicule Christianity, why should Islam be given special treatment?

Roadrunner, please don't compare this with racism.

In the minds of Europeans, Islam, just like communism, relativity and evolution, is an idea, and like any other idea, is subject to scrutiny, discussion and ridicule.

 

[solid snake]

Time for the worlds Muslims to start burning down some buildings.

 

[su-47]

Time for the worlds Muslims to start burning down some buildings.

and then it would be time for the west to wage another 'war on terror' and kill a couple of million muslims and decimate a few muslim countries.

the more violent muslims become over this, the more the rest of the world will hate muslims. best thing would be to protest peacefully

 

[solid snake]

I was being sarcastic, I hope you didn't miss it. The best thing would not be to protest, but to completely ignore it.

 

[Neo]

Geert Wilders

 

[roadrunner]

The point is that religion has fallen out with western intellectuals. If its kosher to ridicule Christianity, why should Islam be given special treatment?

Roadrunner, please don't compare this with racism.

In the minds of Europeans, Islam, just like communism, relativity and evolution, is an idea, and like any other idea, is subject to scrutiny, discussion and ridicule.

The racism example was the only one I could think of immediately, so until I think of a better one i'll stick with it.

Let's say that all ideas should be subject to ridicule and discussion - though religion isn't an idea, more of a set of beliefs, an idea is just something you think of. If someone believes their friend to be innocent of some form of ridicule, they will of course defend them. If someone believes something is being twisted, they will of course launch a complaint, as is the case here. One might take your "ideas" example further, by using the racism example (if i think of a better one i'll give it). It is just an idea (not even a belief, though a belief by some), that Africans are descended from monkeys, so why are monkey chants at Africans so badly received in society? Why do some Africans react violently to such abuse? Surely it's just "an idea"! Surely an African could call a European, "a monkey", and noone would mind or get offended. This all relates to your "kosher to ridicule Chistianity so why not Islam" comment. Why is it "kosher to ridicule Europeans but Africans" with the monkey curse? Words always have different reception, it's not a simple comparison as you've done.

In America, such ridiculing of Christianity would not be tolerated.

 

[su-47]

I was being sarcastic, I hope you didn't miss it. The best thing would not be to protest, but to completely ignore it.

i only noticed the sarcasm after i posted. sorry about that.

i beleive that people have the right to protest if thy feel they have been wronged. however the protest must be peaceful and should be aimed at making people aware, rather than scaring them by holding cards like, "we'll kill all who insult our religion" etc.

 

[OKtoBerFeSt]

The racism example was the only one I could think of immediately, so until I think of a better one i'll stick with it.

Let's say that all ideas should be subject to ridicule and discussion - though religion isn't an idea, more of a set of beliefs, an idea is just something you think of.

A religion is a set of ideas...just like any other ideology. Please don't get into word play here.
If you think your ideas are eternal and word of god..too bad...others don't think that way.

If someone believes their friend to be innocent of some form of ridicule, they will of course defend them. If someone believes something is being twisted, they will of course launch a complaint, as is the case here. One might take your "ideas" example further, by using the racism example (if i think of a better one i'll give it). It is just an idea (not even a belief, though a belief by some), that Africans are descended from monkeys, so why are monkey chants at Africans so badly received in society? Why do some Africans react violently to such abuse? Surely it's just "an idea"! Surely an African could call a European, "a monkey", and noone would mind or get offended. This all relates to your "kosher to ridicule Chistianity so why not Islam" comment. Why is it "kosher to ridicule Europeans but Africans" with the monkey curse? Words always have different reception, it's not a simple comparison as you've done.

Well, you completely missed the point. Africans have a history of being discriminated against, and if someone calls an African a monkey, the intent behind this is quite apparent.

Islam is a religion, and it should be treated like any other religion. I fail to see how Muslims are being discriminated against if their religion is scrutinized.

In America, such ridiculing of Christianity would not be tolerated.

Are you kidding me? A simple Youtube search should clear your doubts on this issue.
I have myself seen atleast 5 movies that compare Christianity to fascism, expose its pagan roots, and blame everything short of the nuclear bomb on it.

 

[roadrunner]

A religion is a set of ideas...just like any other ideology. Please don't get into word play here.

Religion is a set of beliefs, not ideas. Beliefs are what one believes, ideas are not.

If you think your ideas are eternal and word of god..too bad...others don't think that way.

Everybody is entitled to believe what they like.

Well, you completely missed the point. Africans have a history of being discriminated against, and if someone calls an African a monkey, the intent behind this is quite apparent.

But it's just an idea! Why is one not allowed to believe Africans are descended from monkeys? Because of a history of discrimination? What about the crusades?

Islam is a religion, and it should be treated like any other religion. I fail to see how Muslims are being discriminated against if their religion is scrutinized.

Forget discrimination, it was just an example, which you failed to see. It's not scrutinization either to insult someone's beliefs. Should one be able to freely voice their belief that Africans are monkeys? No, why not? Because it's an insulting idea, right?

Are you kidding me? A simple Youtube search should clear your doubts on this issue.
I have myself seen atleast 5 movies that compare Christianity to fascism, expose its pagan roots, and blame everything short of the nuclear bomb on it.

Not in the Bible Belt.

 

[OKtoBerFeSt]

Religion is a set of beliefs, not ideas. Beliefs are what one believes, ideas are not.

Don't you believe in your own ideas?

But it's just an idea! Why is one not allowed to believe Africans are descended from monkeys? Because of a history of discrimination? What about the crusades?

Er....by the way...why single out Africans? Even you and me are descended from apes.

What about the crusades? What do the crusades have to do with the 21st century?

If you can't understand the difference between racism and religious debate, then really, I can't help you.

Forget discrimination, it was just an example, which you failed to see. It's not scrutinization either to insult someone's beliefs. Should one be attacked for believing Africans are monkeys, and by voicing this "belief"?

Well, racism is outlawed. So needless to say, you will get into trouble for voicing a racist opinion.

Not in the Bible Belt.

I don't see the people of the bible belt waging war against the rest of America.

 

[solid snake]

In America, such ridiculing of Christianity would not be tolerated.

really?

hu0-WUu8LCg[/media] - Dear Jesus