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Drone Strikes: Why west doesnt care

You are right that most westerners could care less about third-world lives. But the opposite is true...those who allow terrorist to be their guest because they have the same religion must not care about western lives.


Guilty until proven otherwise. you are speaking the language of debriefed and hired media.
thousands of civilians killed in the drone strikes had no say and no role in who was in their neighbourhood.

you are like justifying the SWAT team to take out the neighbours and family members of the hostage while taking out the gunman.


the tribesmen killed right after the Raymond Davis release were part of the local militia that was raised to fight the Taliban and they bore the brunt of the AQ/ taliban atrocities, attacks on open gatherings like theirs, funerals and weddings did nothing for the war on terror but only increased the resentment of the people, who "as per program participants hate Al Qaeda but they became resentful of Americans too.
 
every thing looks like fake
still a question
why iraq was bombed??
.
Hypocrisy at its peak
 
full Article at : Don’t trust Obama’s poetry



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Your statement that Indian bloggers and Web Commentators could sabotage the Global Community's thought process on Pakistan is laughable. Just because we are more in number so carry more voices will not guarantee our prorogation unless there is some weight behind it.


A typical Indian response in the news website

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my response (not posted :) )
thanks for stating the obvious, but sadly you lost the plot
the article is not about how much aid Pakistani government gets, but the clear contrast between what Obama promised & received the Nobel prize for it & what he actually did.

so with due respect, American aid should'nt have any bearing on stating the facts that American foreign policy is driven by its military & covert ops.
its also irrelevant how the American Policy will shape up towards Pakistan & rest of the world because the focus of the article is Obama's broken promises.

finally, reference to the last sentence of your post, I dare say that you have lost the plot. why did you decide that pointing out the discrepancies in Obama's promises & his actions is creating problems for Pakistan? so please tell us, whats right for the author? Campaign for another Nobel prize for Obama?


in the social media sites, and blogs, size matters, because size (volume of posts, comments, votes, video uploads ) drives the public opinion. the quality, facts or weight (as you put it) becomes of secondary importance.

I rest my case.
 
the reason that there is dis-approval about drones in foreign lands is because people are now afraid that this drone technology might come back to harm them, not because they care for us.

Similarly, China and Russia showing concern is not because of feelings for us, but because they think that drones will be coming into their lands some day.

In the current scenario, it would be better if pakistan props up Russia and China to make some noise on drones rather than going out ourselves.
 
Because of that pole you have shown, from now on I will support Greece, even over Turkey.

On topic: If we had this technology, I think we would do the same in Kunar province of Afghanistan. I'm not saying it is correct.
 
The only thing that is stopping us is our selfishness nothing else.Innocents are dying and our media is painting them as terrorist.

They have forgotten that there is life after death and they have to answer for their deeds.With what face they will tell Allah (S.W.T) what they did.......................

May Allah grant the departed innocent souls jannah.Those people are looking toward our Generals sitting who are comfortably sitting in luxury offices, deciding the fate of next innocent civilans to be killed in the next drone Attack.

TO HELL WITH WOT ,TO HELL WITH USA.............. We have destroyed our whole damn country on behalf of white skinned bastards.......

May our politician and our bureaucrats wroth in hell forever who are selling our country in any way.Ameen
 
West do not care because if u have snakes in your backyard and you do not remove them somebody has to


Toulouse killer fought with Taliban, broke out of Afghan jail - France - Afghanistan - Pakistan - RFI


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12006061

Drone attack 'kills two Britons' in Pakistan The US military is thought to be the only force capable of launching such attacks in the region Continue reading the main story


Drone attacks are a vital weapon on the war on terror and it will continue until Pakistan finally does something about it.
 
The onley thing that is stopping us is our selfishness nothing else.Innocents are dying and our media is painting them as terrorist.

They have forgotten that there is life after death and they have to answer for their deeds.With what face they will tell Allah (S.W.T) what they did.......................

May Allah grant the departed innocent souls jannah.Those people are looking toward our Generals sitting who are comfortably sitting in luxury offices, deciding the fate of next innocent civilans to be killed in the next drone Attack.

TO HELL WITH WOT ,TO HELL WITH USA.............. We have destroyed our whole damn country on behalf of white skinned bastards.......

May our politician and our bureaucrats wroth in hell forever who are selling our country in any way.Ameen
Very nicely said brothr!!!
We are realli mean and selfish. Just look for our interests.Our military , our politicianz nobody cares about any innocent kid , women or older citizen killed in any part of the country even by drones strikes or somethingelse. All sitting just to look for $$$. I guess a greater punishment is on its way from Allah SBWT to put everybody under the ground for their eveil selfishness.....There is no justice and law within the country period.......:smokin:
 
West do not care because if u have snakes in your backyard and you do not remove them somebody has to

I should nail you right now before this over used nonsense of a justification goes any further.
talking about snakes.

Americans have their own snakes who spy over America, kill its soldiers, attack its naval Ship, sell its secrets and harm its interests. yet those snakes get the biggest cake out of the US tax payer.
those snakes constantly bite America.


I must remind you an everyone
the talk is not about how incompetent Pakistani government is, because we all agree over it.

the video (which I doubt you cared to watch) and this thread is about the reason why ordinary people are ignorant about the impact of the drone war and how this drone war is being waged and how CIA/ Pentagon is able to lie to its general public and the rest of the Western world.

do you know what is meant by war crimes? one of them is deliberately and constantly killing the civilians.. thats something Nazis have been loathed for. wonder how Nazi supporters would have justified the atrocities if there was internet then? they would have spammed the blogs criticising the Jewish community for being greedy & Justified the Arian race as a rightful ruler of the world. something American military blowhards and free lancer supporters like you are doing.
whenever there is a story of American atrocity you would pick up a story or an event that has nothing to do with the current event and blame ISI and Pak Military.
 
I have Started Watching BBC and RT both to get a Picture on Both Sides . What i feel is the "hate" or "paranoia" Regarding 9/11 has been escalated to Such an Extent that for general public perception it becomes Justified . This is my 2 paise on this topic
 
You are right that most westerners could care less about third-world lives. But the opposite is true...those who allow terrorist to be their guest because they have the same religion must not care about western lives.

thats what you people based in US dont want to understand, and always see the things by religious eyes :hitwall:. that is, a revenage of North West State of Pakistan is a man/human first who is angry with US for the way he lost his family in drone attacks, and then he looks for anyone who may help him take revenge, whether religious terrorists or not. see this video, by the very first question, he asked, "do the drone attacks making America safer?" and the answer was, "NO, and it making 10 times more terrorists." a specialist answer :wave:


PS: troll at your own peril. make fun of the human tragedy of this war and you will wear pink sari forever.

big man, could you please tell me the meaning of this line, looks funny :lol:
 
full Article at : Don’t trust Obama’s poetry



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A typical Indian response in the news website

563440_395452867178479_949460964_n.jpg


my response (not posted :) )

in the social media sites, and blogs, size matters, because size (volume of posts, comments, votes, video uploads ) drives the public opinion. the quality, facts or weight (as you put it) becomes of secondary importance.

I rest my case.

this survey has a unique meaning that only 53% Indian nationals know drone attacks on that region, who could give their opinion, and 32% might be all these internet warriors who are based in western countries and are keen to vote in these interesting topics. but here, we find 62% Amercians support drone attacks on Afghan/Pakistan's civilians? here, why don't Pakistan also make a drone and bomb on these US's civilians to help them understand, what this means? US's nationals get welfare also but the same is not true for the family members of those people who got killed in these drone attacks? even if few were sitting around militants and listening them, they can't be said to be terrorists until they are given proper training/armed and are ready to fight with US in Afghan? drones drop bombs from sky on all those who sit around 2-3 militants who are not terrorists but the two hands who may earn for their families. and the worst part is, half of the drone strikes are mistakenly dropped on wrong targets also, killing innocent civilians who dont even know who these sky people are, from where they came to Afghan, how they live and why would they kill Afghan people :hitwall:
 
I should nail you right now before this over used nonsense of a justification goes any further.
talking about snakes.

Americans have their own snakes who spy over America, kill its soldiers, attack its naval Ship, sell its secrets and harm its interests. yet those snakes get the biggest cake out of the US tax payer.
those snakes constantly bite America.


I must remind you an everyone
the talk is not about how incompetent Pakistani government is, because we all agree over it.

the video (which I doubt you cared to watch) and this thread is about the reason why ordinary people are ignorant about the impact of the drone war and how this drone war is being waged and how CIA/ Pentagon is able to lie to its general public and the rest of the Western world.

do you know what is meant by war crimes? one of them is deliberately and constantly killing the civilians.. thats something Nazis have been loathed for. wonder how Nazi supporters would have justified the atrocities if there was internet then? they would have spammed the blogs criticising the Jewish community for being greedy & Justified the Arian race as a rightful ruler of the world. something American military blowhards and free lancer supporters like you are doing.
whenever there is a story of American atrocity you would pick up a story or an event that has nothing to do with the current event and blame ISI and Pak Military.



You call it a lie I do not believe that claim, drone strikes are done for one purpose that is to kill the militants and it has achieved that goal to a large degree. Now you can say oh what about the poor civilians etc but when its all said and done the west have a moral duty to keep it's own 'civilians' safe and that means going after those who it deems it to be a threat.

Take the example of the Toulouse killer who had training in NWFP so is he not fair game for a drone attack? ask any joe public in NYC, London or Paris and the answer would be yes they are.

BTW where is the evidence that thousands of civilians have been killed in these drone attacks? any credible source for it?


Public in West see their civilains being killed in drone attacks on your soil so they could not care less on the implications for Pakistan all they care is that they are not harmed while going to work by tube or taking a plane.
 
Irfan Sir I have gone through the video link that you have posted, now I am a new member on this forum but I will try to provide my response in a satisfactory manner.

Let us look at the idea of hitting terrorists wherever they may be and at all costs. "Wherever they maybe" is rather valid since the very nature of these organisations allows them to coordinate international operations from remote areas and to use said areas as bases- Bill Roggio from the LWJ says as much, in fact he seems to consider these drone strikes as inefficient as opposed to more standard means and yet in the same breath asserts that he is not advocating a US invasion of FATA and other areas such as NW- this is a stand which confuses me. Regardless of that these terrorists do need to be taken out wherever they may be holed up. BUT when we come to the part which says "at all costs" then we need to pause, as Chris Woods points out- the figures pertaining to civilian casualties which are provided by the US govt. and its agencies are laughable- EVEN if the exactitude of the empirical figures are disputed only a fool would imagine that the no. is not in the high hundreds if not thousand. As such drone strikes are unethical no matter which UN convention any one digs up and IF I were sitting at the ICJ and this case came up I'd have to award the case to Pakistan regardless of the circumstances.

Now your specific question seems to be answered within the video itself. The US govt. is selective about the information it releases and while international Reuters, the Pak media and perhaps even some rare US journos may be reporting on every drone strike that occurs..such news items are rarely heeded. You also seem to want to delink the perceptions about the GOP and the country of Pakistan itself from this situation- unfortunately in my opinion that is not possible. Sir you have to understand that the perception in the Western world is one where the whole of Pakistan is painted as terrorist central, now personally I'd agree with said perception if it was limited to insinuating that a majority of terrorist orgs. find havens in Pakistan for whatever reason but I cannot agree with the idea that Pakistan is a "nation of terrorists"- the last bit is simply ridiculous. The inaction of the GOP does not help either, even if Western nationals take interest in such affairs (which is a rarity in itself lest one of their soldiers is killed) when they mine through the net or the news sources for info on the whole drone affair the one thing that surely boggles them is the muted reaction of the GOP on the whole issue. This leads to a certain perception that hey if the GOP doesn't care then obviously the drones must be serving some good purpose or in the least they don't seem to be very harmful, it also reinforces the US govt.'s stance that they are highly effective against terrorists and do not cause too much collateral damage.

Also most of the reactions against the drone campaign that comes from official sources in Islamabad seems to majorly deal with the fact that they are a contravention of Pakistan's sovereignty. Now honestly the sovereignty angle will be very hard to sell, forget to the Indian people or the Indian bloggers you were referring to but even to the most liberal westerners. The first question raised would be that if Pakistan will not act against such elements then what choice are other nations left with- this is an argument that has been beaten to death but more importantly the average joe in the US is not going to care for another nation's sovereignty or breach thereof if he believes that such drone attacks help safeguard his life- and this is a belief that the US govt. has spent a lot of time and resources in cultivating.

Even more importantly, yet again as stated by Bill Roggio, the undefined nature of the conflict and the combatants involved makes it all the more easier for the US govt. to get away with the rising toll that its drones are taking on the civilian populace. Some of the facts (which are true) such as the inability of the GOP to enact an appreciable amount of control over the regions of FATA and NW make it easier for the US govt. to state that since the GOP cannot take any actions there or is unwilling to do so then it has to step in and clean the place up, this argument seems to find many buyers in the US and the western world. The impersonal nature of drone strikes also adds to this, whereas many in the Human Rights orgs. site this as a hugely problematic characteristic of drones leading to various legal and moral questions, for the average US citizen- all he hears is that an American or NATO soldier will not be endangered in such ops. so any civilian casualties are acceptable after-all at least their soldiers are not getting blown up during such ops. The combatants involved, that is to say the terrorists are not covered by the standard rules and laws pertaining to an armed conflict- trying them in a court of law would be next to impossible. Often times the information and proof gathered against them would be inadmissible in the court of law since such information is gathered by intelligence agencies rather than law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies can very rarely site their sources or reveal classified info. This leads to the obvious justification of targeting terrorists or alleged terrorists without due process- a justification which I agree with but I must stress again that declaring "all males in the vicinity as targets" is poles apart from targeting alleged terrorists- in the first case you are deliberately engaging in killing civilians who you have declared to be fare game just because they were unfortunate enough be in a certain place at a certain time- no legal cover can be provided to such actions at all.

This is a classic case of propaganda which happens to be circumstantially corroborated by some ground realities and truths which allows the US govt. to discard a nuanced approach and go for the drones. Unless the perception about Pakistan that seems to dominate the western narrative changes and the GOP itself takes a much tougher stand on these strikes there will not be much of a shift in the realities that exist in Pakistan with regard to the drone campaign- perceptions of people over the world be damned.

To conclude, in my opinion, an Abbottabad style raid such as op. Neptune Spear which did not produce any civilian casualties is highly desirable (as long as it doesn't lead to hundreds of civilians dying as a direct result of actions of the soldiers involved- note soldiers and not the terrorist who may just resort to using human shields or taking hostages such as in the case of the Lal Masjid op. or 26/11) but a drone which averages 5-6 terrorists along with 30 or so civilians is just not going to be acceptable- at least not to me personally leave alone the Pakistani people. At the same time I cannot agree with the argument that all nations must respect the sanctity of Pakistan's sovereignty in this case since unfortunately Pakistan has indeed been home to far too many terrorists which have struck other nations and caused massive death tolls and damage, also because according to the GOI and even some Pakistanis themselves Pakistan has also dabbled in state sponsorship of terrorism in the past. BUT the extreme loss of innocent lives cannot be condoned at any costs. If the US is serious about its commitment to rooting out terrorism then as Bill Roggio pointed out it must do so by taking on the ideology that drives them and any state sponsorship that they may be enjoying and not by simply trying to "keep them off balance" and in the process murdering scores of civilians.
 
The answer is simple, They are fighting the war in enemy's Territory. They don't care about it because their media was successful in revealing that Pakistan shelters a number of terror groups, Lashkar e Taiba, Hizbul mujaheddin, Jaish e Mohammed, Harkat ul Jihad islami, Pakistan members would immediately say that Illyas Kashmiri was involved in attacks against pakistan also, It is right but it was only after Pakistan joined war on terror. Other than this there is also another thing, Usually Western Media echoes what their administration says,
 
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