Do scientists pray?

[VCheng]

What a great reply by Einstein.

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A young girl named Phyllis penned a polite and inquisitive note to the great physicist, and she was probably surprised to receive a considerate reply. The exchange was published in the book "Dear Professor Einstein: Albert Einstein's Letters to and from Children", edited by Alice Calaprice.

She wrote:

January 19, 1936
My dear Dr. Einstein,

We have brought up the question: Do scientists pray? in our Sunday school class. It began by asking whether we could believe in both science and religion. We are writing to scientists and other important men to try and have our own question answered.

We will feel greatly honored if you will answer our question: Do scientists pray, and what do they pray for?

We are in the sixth grade, Miss Ellis's class.

Respectfully yours,

Phyllis

He replied a mere five days later, sharing with her his thoughts on faith and science:

January 24, 1936
Dear Phyllis,

I will attempt to reply to your question as simply as I can. Here is my answer:

Scientists believe that every occurrence, including the affairs of human beings, is due to the laws of nature. Therefore a scientist cannot be inclined to believe that the course of events can be influenced by prayer, that is, by a supernaturally manifested wish.

However, we must concede that our actual knowledge of these forces is imperfect, so that in the end the belief in the existence of a final, ultimate spirit rests on a kind of faith. Such belief remains widespread even with the current achievements in science.

But also, everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe, one that is vastly superior to that of man. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is surely quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.

With cordial greetings,

your A. Einstein

 

[Developereo]

Both the question and the reply sound fake: the phrasing is too contrived and formulaic.

It seems unlikely that Einstein would insult a little girl by calling her naive (she is allegedly in Sunday school and believes in the second, "naive", kind of religiosity, not the "special" religiosity of himself).

It's an amateurish and -- excuse the pun, childish -- attempt to portray atheists as superior to religious people.

 

[VCheng]

Both the question and the reply sound fake: the phrasing is too contrived and formulaic.

It seems unlikely that Einstein would insult a little girl by calling her naive (she is allegedly in Sunday school and believes in the second, "naive", kind of religiosity, not the "special" religiosity of himself).

It's an amateurish and -- excuse the pun, childish -- attempt to portray atheists as superior to religious people.

Here is the reference for it Sir:

Dear Professor Einstein: Albert Einstein's Letters to and from Children: Alice Calaprice: 9781591020158: Amazon.com: Books

Dear Professor Einstein: Albert Einstein's Letters to and from Children [Hardcover]
Alice Calaprice (Editor)

Book Description
Release date: September 1, 2002 | ISBN-10: 1591020158 | ISBN-13: 978-1591020158 | Edition: 1

This enchanting book displays a small sampling of the amusing, touching, and sometimes precocious letters sent to Albert Einstein by children from around the world, and his often witty and very considerate responses. Alice Calaprice has compiled a delightful and charming collection of more than 60 letters, most never published before, from children to perhaps the greatest scientist of all time. Enhancing this correspondence are numerous photographs showing Einstein amid children, wearing an Indian headdress, carrying a puppet of himself, donning furry slippers, among many other wonderful pictures. They reveal the intimate human side of the great public persona, a man who, though he spent his days contemplating the impersonal abstractions of mathematics and physics, was very fond of children and enjoyed being in their company.

Obviously, Einstein led a busy life, and so he could not answer every letter sent to him. Nonetheless, he made time to respond to those that touched him in some way. To Monique from New York, who asked about the age of the Earth and when it will come to an end, he patiently responded that it is a little more than a billion years old, and, "As for the question of the end of it I advise: Wait and see!" To "six little scientists" from Morgan City, Louisiana, who despite the skepticism of their classmates maintained that life would survive even if the sun burned out, he wrote, "The minority is sometimes right—but not in your case."

Complete with a foreword by Einstein's granddaughter Evelyn, a biography and chronology of Einstein's life, and an introduction by Einstein scholar Robert Schulmann on the great scientist's educational philosophy, this wonderful compilation will be welcomed by teachers, parents, and all the young, budding scientists in their lives.

 

[forcetrip]

Both the question and the reply sound fake: the phrasing is too contrived and formulaic.

It seems unlikely that Einstein would insult a little girl by calling her naive (she is allegedly in Sunday school and believes in the second, "naive", kind of religiosity, not the "special" religiosity of himself).

It's an amateurish and -- excuse the pun, childish -- attempt to portray atheists as superior to religious people.

You should have actually seen the poster and done a bit of research before accusing someone of that. I think we all should. Sometimes our fingers leave our brain behind. I said the exact same thing that you did and rushed on uncle google to find it authentic. I do sometimes scorn at his blatant proUS views but I hardly find him factually wrong or weak on his research, oh look .. Hes got a Research & Dev badge too.

 

[Developereo]

Here is the reference for it Sir:

Oh, I read the reference in the original post, but I still don't buy it unless there is a handwritten letter verified to be in his handwriting. The phraseology is far too preachy and formulaic -- standard atheist sermon.

It's a standard PR tactic to claim that celebrities answer their own mail, but 99% of the correspondence is typed up by some assistant and just signed by the celebrity -- sometimes, not even that.

You should have actually seen the poster and done a bit of research before accusing someone of that. I think we all should. Sometimes our fingers leave our brain behind. I said the exact same thing that you did and rushed on uncle google to find it authentic. I do sometimes scorn at his blatant proUS views but I hardly find him factually wrong or weak on his research, oh look .. Hes got a Research & Dev badge too.

Please learn to appreciate context.
I am not accusing VCheng, but the author of that book or whoever claims that it is written by Einstein.

 

[forcetrip]

Please learn to appreciate context.
I am not accusing VCheng, but the author of that book or whoever claims that it is written by Einstein.

I dont see you producing a hand written letter from God to back up claims of your book either but I wouldn't call your beliefs childish or amateurish. The people who publish these books are under scrutiny as well. If we go into authenticity it just closes doors to the debate.

 

[Developereo]

I dont see you producing a hand written letter from God to back up claims of your book either

Glad you are admitting that believing this claim without evidence is a matter of faith.

Once again, please produce a handwritten version of the letter, and I will gladly accept its authenticity.

but I wouldn't call your beliefs childish or amateurish.

I said the attempt to foist the atheistic sermon as Einstein's view was amateurish and childish.
Belief in atheism itself is not childish.

The people who publish these books are under scrutiny as well. If we go into authenticity it just closes doors to the debate.

The first response to any PR claim should be doubt, unless proof is provided.

A handwritten letter would be convincing. Anything else could be written by some assistant or even apocryphal..

 

[forcetrip]

Glad you are admitting that believing this claim without evidence is a matter of faith.

Once again, please produce a handwritten version of the letter, and I will gladly accept its authenticity.



I said the attempt to foist the atheistic sermon as Einstein's view was amateurish and childish.
Belief in atheism itself is not childish.



The first response to any PR claim should be doubt, unless proof is provided.

A handwritten letter would be convincing. Anything else could be written by some assistant or even apocryphal..

Oh bhai, Here.

Albert Einstein Autograph Letter Signed 05 11 1934 | eBay

Thats an example. Just one. Follow the COA at the bottom, and this is just for ebay. The publishers have to make sure they do not get sued. They have to follow a more strict attestation than even the author. This is not Nawa- -waqt at urdu bazaar. I am sure you must know all of this living for prolonged periods in a western country. There is a process and claiming that process is flawed because you "feel" its not something he would have said is not something we should worry our minds about. Its been taken care of for us.

 

[Developereo]

Oh bhai, Here.

Albert Einstein Autograph Letter Signed 05 11 1934 | eBay

Thats an example. Just one

No one's denying that he wrote letters by hand.
Do you have a handwritten copy of this particular letter under discussion?

 

[forcetrip]

No one's denying that he wrote letters by hand.
Do you have a handwritten copy of this particular letter under discussion?

You are right. I do not have the book or the letters with me. I will continue this discussion when and if I get the letters or a time machine.

 

[VCheng]

In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is surely quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive.

This is the key quote from the great man, which merely states that the religious feeling that a scientist may get from the appreciation that "some spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe" is different from the religiosity of others naive in the ways of science, and therefore does not imply superiority of one view over the other.


(The book has a foreword by Einstein's granddaughter and the material is verified.)

 

[Skull and Bones]

How relevance is the term 'Hoping' is in contrast to 'Praying'?

Talking from the perspective of science, my work mainly revolves around theoretical approach in modelling and simulation, but during experimental application of the same principals which already has been theoretically manifested, many factors comes into play, which maybe unaccounted for in the theoretical modelling. So we hope, that all the factors has been accounted for, as even a slightest deviation from the theoretical results can push back the work by months.

And no, we do not say, 'Hey Bhagwan, is bar successfully experiment run karwa de, agle 5 Somwar tak mai tere mandir me nariyal phodunga'. You won't rely on chances, which might have profound influence in saving someone's life.

 

[Jango]

I had a Physics professor once...and during our lecture, somebody just casually made fun of the fct that 'you have to go mad to get this much knowledge'.

The professor replied, 'yeh jo physicists hotay hain na, yeh aik khas point par ja kar khuda aur deen ko manna band kar dete hain aur yeh duniya se alag ho jatay hain' (Physicists and other such scientists, at one point of attaining supreme knowledge, stop believeing in religion and God and become separate from the world).

Then he went on to explain this, saying that when a Physicist starts to find answers to majority of phenomena, he believes that behind every thing, there is a reason which is due to some other thing and so on.

For example, this solar system is kept in place due to the Sun and it's gravitation, the Sun came into being for reasons XYZ, that reasons in turn came into being by IJK and so on.

In short physicists find reason in everything.

 

[Developereo]

For example, this solar system is kept in place due to the Sun and it's gravitation, the Sun came into being for reasons XYZ, that reasons in turn came into being by IJK and so on.

In short physicists find reason in everything.

That's the classical view by Descartes -- a clockwork universe. Einstein was "old school" in that way and subscribed to that view.

Einstein rejected the philosophical aspects of quantum mechanics which state that some things are inherently unknowable.

 

[Skull and Bones]

That's the classical view by Descartes -- a clockwork universe. Einstein was "old school" in that way and subscribed to that view.

Einstein rejected the philosophical aspects of quantum mechanics which state that some things are inherently unknowable.

There hasn't been any strong proponent of Philosophical aspect of Quantum mechanics till date, but off course if you consider Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, wave particle duality, then you can assume that there cannot be any definite answer, only the distribution of the function and multiple answer for the same problem. And one chooses the most probable answer.

See the article, how poorly copy-paste articulated. Seems like the job of a high school student.

http://lilith.gotdns.org/~victor/writings/0029qm.pdf