Discrediting PIA claim of Losses , by Logical Day by Day Analysis of Operations

[Indus Pakistan]

By the way if PIA was run as efficiently as Ryan Air do you know how many workers it would employ?

33 times 28 = 924.

Can you guys believe it? Fcukin 924 !

MQM doesn't have much influence, it's the PPP backward people.

No it does. It's HQ is in Karachi which does not make sense. Most of the air traffic is generated in up country Pakistan and should have the HQ in Islamabad. But then it would get out of the clutches of MQM. We all know it's racket. I think the government will struggle because MQM is in the coalition like it has been in the past. Karachi Port is another racket.

 

[PakSword]

They should have only 2 Salary brackets

Grade A : 1 Lakh Salary/Month
Grade B : 50,000 Rupee Salary/Month


Only 133 Million Dollar for Salary of 14,000 Employees / Workers not god damn
1 Billion Dollar for Employees


View attachment 504973

This is what I am pointing out.. but this 817 million has 30% salaries and other benefits (including post retirement).

Now imagine, you will lay off half of the employees, but will pay them post retirement benefits every year.. loll

PIA needs restructuring from ground zero.. where you terminate people by giving them golden handshake.. so that they don't claim post retirement benefits every year,, and happily accept the termination terms.. this requires some billions of dollars..

Give me this money, and I will do two things:

1 - Pay off loan so that 130 million USD interest can be saved..

2 - Offer golden handshake.. and bring down the cost of salaries down to half..

PIA will become profitable.. even with 33 planes..

No it does. It's HQ is in Karachi which does not make sense. Most of the air traffic is generated in up country Pakistan and should have the HQ in Islamabad. But then it would get out of the clutches of MQM. We all know it's racket. I think the government will struggle because MQM is in the coalition like it has been in the past. Karachi Port is another racket.

This is what you fail to understand.. Head Office in Karachi doesn't mean that MQM rules in that HQ.. Most of the hiring was done by PPP and PMLN's federal governments..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I will do two things:

I would only do one thing. Pull the lifeline on PIA. It is immoral for government to waste precious public money on the spoilt workers at PIA and have milliuons of poor kids walking on the streets out of school. Then when PIA goes bankrupt, seven days late re-incorporate PIA and employ new staff and limit the numbers to no more then 990. End of.

 

[PakSword]

I would only do one thing. Pull the lifeline on PIA. It is immoral for government to waste precious public money on the spoilt workers at PIA and have milliuons of poor kids walking on the streets out of school. Then when PIA goes bankrupt, seven days late re-incorporate PIA and employ new staff and limit the numbers to no more then 990. End of.

This is also good..

But it is really a potential profit making institution.. It can earn us 1 billion dollars a year at least.. if the policies are right..

Unfortunately, next PPP and PMLN governments will again fill their workers once PIA will start making profits..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Unfortunately, next PPP and PMLN governments will again fill their workers once PIA will start making profits..

That is why it must be privatized before the end of this government to prevent that happening. Just think. They should not have more than 990 workers for 33 planes. Instead they employ 14,000 that is 15 times as many as they should. No wonder they make losses !

 

[PakSword]

That is why it must be privatized before the end of this government to prevent that happening. Just think. They should not have more than 990 workers for 33 planes. Instead they employ 14,000 that is 15 times as many as they should. No wonder they make losses !

Yeah you are right.. I agree..

 

[war&peace]

I won't bother with giving myself migraine reading the huge figures. For me it is simple. A captain, pilot, steward, hostess, aviation engineer, fuel supply technicians, cleaners cost at least 4 times more in UK then Pakistan. Yet British Airways are making profit when they employ expensive British aircrews. Even budget airlines like Ryan Air that sell their tickets at ridicalous low prices and employ expensive British aircrews makes huge profit. So we all know PIA is one big mafia racket.

For instance London to Istanbul is less than 1,800 miles. Pakistan is just over 2 times the distance. Here are the return tickets.

Lowest round trip fares found for Istanbul to London flights
Flight
Airline name
Price
Type
Trip dates
Search date
Istanbul - London Atlasjet £78 Return 24 to 27 November 10 days ago
Istanbul - London Atlasjet £85 Return 26 February to 03 March 13 days ago
Istanbul - London Atlasjet £85 Return 28 February to 03 March 13 days ago


The average figure is £80 for return ticket . If this was applied on a flight to Pakistan the return tickets should not cost more then £200. PIA charges far higher yet it makes a loss. That make any sense?

Because PIA has inducted 14000 useless workers who are criminals. That's the higher ratio of staff / airplane or per seat .. in the world and even that is nothing compare to the pilferage that occurs at management level.

 

[El Sidd]

Pakistan International Airline will Pull through.

Just need to be Patient.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

PIA is dying due to Debt / Interest
Perks/Benefits for Employee

[Perks~~~~~~~]
Perk have been renamed many names ........





PIA need to cut down their Perk/Benefits to only 130-133 Million dollar

Step #1: Sell Hotels and Make PIA Debt Zero:
If under a policy we sell USA /Paris Hotels raise 3.0 Billion / 200 Million respectively
we should be able to 100% get rid of PIA full debt make it debt free entity

USA hotel : Raise 3,000,000,000 (3 Billion Dollars)
Paris Hotel: Raise 200,000,000 (200 Million Dollars)

• Use pairs hotel fund to support Elderly retired workers / Pension
• Funds raised from US hotel can be used 100% to Pay off Debt

Step #2: Restricts Salaries to 133 Million Dollars no more :

• Salaries should be restricted to 133 Million Dollars (For Active Employees / Retired)
• Enforce Senior Workers to train Juniors so no new cost is incurred
• Your salaried staff should include the Handlers and baggage folks
• Reduce work force if budget goes over 133 Million fit employee numbers into this figure
• Workforce should be reduced to 8000 work force from 15000 employees

a) Permanent Laid Off (3.5 month salary cash)
b) Possible call back (may be) if Airline makes profit (No compensation issued). No 100% guarantee
c) Laid off with PIA Stock , when PIA makes profit you can redeem the stock to get some relief (Stock issued up to 12 month Salary)


​

4 Pay brackets

Grade A : 1 LAKH RUPEE SALARY
Grade B : 50,000 RUPEE SALARY
Grade C : 35,000 RUPEE SALARY (Handlers)
Grade D : 20,000 RUPEE SALARY (Interns new Graduates)​

Step #3: Pensions /Retired Salaries :

• Use funding from Paris hotel sales to pay Pension for workers who are retired
• Pay and retire 7000 workers from company from pairs hotel sale release inefficient workers with 3 month salary

Revenue : 971 Million Revenue Fantastic Billion dollar revenue

FUEL COST : 258 Million Dollar We should seek to get discounted fuel


SALARY AND PENSION: 133 Million Dollars (RESTRICTED FIGURE NOT TO EXCEED )
"no others expense" future aim to reduce to 80 Million Dollar with Employee reduction
Figure out how many workers can be kept employed with 133 Million Dollar and keep only those workers


ENGINEERING : 40 Million Dollars


NET PROFIT : +540 Million Dollars (500 million should be bench mark)


This should be starting point

• ALL Pakistani Airports should charge a $1 (125 Rupee) Development Tax on Passengers Arriving / Departing Airports (PIA development fund). The fund should be used to develop Training material for New workers

 

[jupiter2007]

PIA is dying due to Debt / Interest
Perks/Benefits for Employee

[Perks~~~~~~~]
Perk have been renamed many names ........





PIA need to cut down their Perk/Benefits to only 130-133 Million dollar

Step #1: Sell Hotels and Make PIA Debt Zero:
If under a policy we sell USA /Paris Hotels raise 3.0 Billion / 200 Million respectively
we should be able to 100% get rid of PIA full debt make it debt free entity

USA hotel : Raise 3,000,000,000 (3 Billion Dollars)
Paris Hotel: Raise 200,000,000 (200 Million Dollars)

• Use pairs hotel fund to support Elderly retired workers / Pension
• Funds raised from US hotel can be used 100% to Pay off Debt

Step #2: Restricts Salaries to 133 Million Dollars no more :

• Salaries should be restricted to 133 Million Dollars (For Active Employees / Retired)
• Enforce Senior Workers to train Juniors so no new cost is incurred
• Your salaried staff should include the Handlers and baggage folks
• Reduce work force if budget goes over 133 Million fit employee numbers into this figure
• Workforce should be reduced to 8000 work force from 15000 employees

a) Permanent Laid Off (3.5 month salary cash)
b) Possible call back (may be) if Airline makes profit (No compensation issued). No 100% guarantee
c) Laid off with PIA Stock , when PIA makes profit you can redeem the stock to get some relief (Stock issued up to 12 month Salary)


​

4 Pay brackets

Grade A : 1 LAKH RUPEE SALARY
Grade B : 50,000 RUPEE SALARY
Grade C : 35,000 RUPEE SALARY (Handlers)
Grade D : 20,000 RUPEE SALARY (Interns new Graduates)​

Step #3: Pensions /Retired Salaries :

• Use funding from Paris hotel sales to pay Pension for workers who are retired
• Pay and retire 7000 workers from company from pairs hotel sale release inefficient workers with 3 month salary

Revenue : 971 Million Revenue Fantastic Billion dollar revenue

FUEL COST : 258 Million Dollar We should seek to get discounted fuel


SALARY AND PENSION: 133 Million Dollars (RESTRICTED FIGURE NOT TO EXCEED )
"no others expense" future aim to reduce to 80 Million Dollar with Employee reduction
Figure out how many workers can be kept employed with 133 Million Dollar and keep only those workers


ENGINEERING : 40 Million Dollars


NET PROFIT : +540 Million Dollars (500 million should be bench mark)


This should be starting point

• ALL Pakistani Airports should charge a $1 (125 Rupee) Development Tax on Passengers Arriving / Departing Airports (PIA development fund). The fund should be used to develop Training material for New workers

If government wants to keep the PIA, they must keep the hotels and put PIA on special diet so it can become profitable.

*Complete Audit of PIA will give a clear picture of work to employee ratio. I would suggest to hire external audit company. External Audit company will have less political influence so external would work better.

*Evaluate the performance of each department (individual performance as well as collect performance of the department).
How much work they have and how many employees working in each department.
How the use of technology can reduce department overhead?
For example, If the department has 800 employees but amount of work they perform can be done by 200 employees then those 600 extra employees will have to be on the layoff or early retirement list.
Audit company will have to go through each PIA department and send the report to Asad Umar and Imran Khan.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is a saying

"If you have debt" pay it quickly to avoid paying excessive interest fees , as your debt remains unchanged if you just pay service fees

The hotels are of less strategic value

• It is best to off Load the hotels recover money and get rid of PIA debt
• Then reduce work force by 8,000 workers
• PIA can always buy a Hotel in future may be in different part of city

Example: (This is true when you have no plan to pay back the borrowed cash)
If you have debt borrowed for 1,000 Dollar your minimum fee is 25 Bucks
Month 1 you pay 25 Only

Next month your Total remaining is 1,005 Dollar Your minimum fee is 25 bucks again
Month 2 you pay 25 only

Next month your Total remaining is 1,010 Dollar Your minimum fee is 25 Bucks again
Month 2 you pay 25 only


For PIA the anwswer is simple , sell Hotels and turn debt into $0 - DEBT FREE STATUS

 

[airmarshal]

And honestly I will be surprised if the present government can do anything. The reason is PIA has extensive liks with MQM and that party is a coalition partner so I would be surprised if the government will slash and chop the workforce or go after the pilfering. Any such attempt will cause a backlash from MQM and threaten the government. That is my take. Let us see how it plays out !

At this moment in economic downturn and with no opportunities around, it will be foolish for a new government to slash workforce, MQM or no MQM.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

You only need 1400 workers to service Operational needs of 400 planes as done in USA
PIA has 15,000 workers for just 33 planes

PIA has been changed from a For Profit entity into a Welfare check company

Ryan Air has 13,000 employees and operates 450 aircraft. PIA has 14,000 workers and operates 33 aircraft. Workers per plane -

PIA 14,000/33 = 424
Ryan 13,000/450 = 28

Destination cities -

PIA - 53
Ryan - 220


And people wonder why PIA makes losses and other airlines make huge profits even when they employ expensive aircrews.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanair
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_International_Airlines

Great argument made how inefficient PIA is vs US companies


The head count for PIA should be around 5,000-7,000 workers
and Annual Expenses on Salaries / expenses should not exceed 130 Million dollars

 

[Yaseen1]

you are right a chartered accountant studies and exam is highly tough and mind breaking with tough training in firms and here ordinary members are commenting on accounts as they are qualified c.A or CFA

Accounting itni asaan nahi hoti..

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well the scam being pulled by PIA is of epic proportion.


Making 1 Billion annually , falsely exaggerating the expenses for Salaries and perks to bloat that figure up to 800 Million mark


When in reality Expenses of all kind should only total to 130 Million Dollars for whole year