Disclosing Kargil casualties would affect morale of troops: CIC

[Gryphon]

New Delhi: The disclosure of information related to casualties suffered by Army during Kargil war and number of militants killed cannot be made public as it would “affect morale of nation”, India’s Central Information Commission has held in an order 14 years after the war. Ironically, most of the details which Information Commissioner ML Sharma allowed the Army to withhold are already in public domain through the official website of the Press Information Bureau, a government of India department.

A feature given on the PIB website on “Operation Vijay” says that 527 soldiers and airmen laid down their lives during the Kargil war.

The curious decision of Sharma came on the plea of RTI applicant Om Prakash Kashiram who sought to know from the Army the number of militants and the Indian soldiers killed in the Kargil War and the matters related therewith.

The information which was sought last year in May was denied by army citing section 8(1)(a) of the RTI Act which allows withholding of information, disclosure of which would prejudicially affect the sovereignty and integrity of India, the security, strategic, scientific or economic interests of the State, relation with foreign State or lead to incitement of an offence.

Kashiram then preferred an appeal before the CIC contesting the claims of Army.

When the matter reached Sharma, he agreed with the views taken by Army and allowed withholding information.

“War related casualties cannot be placed in public domain without a reasonable distance of time as they affect the morale of the nation in general and that of the troops in particular. Disclosure of such information has a bearing on the national security,” Sharma held in his order which was given nearly 14 years of the war.

Disclosing Kargil casualties would affect morale of troops: CIC

 

[kingkobra]

as rightly pointed out in the article most of those numbers are already made public...

 

[notsuperstitious]

Army operational details are obviously beyond RTI. Its a technical point, as any concession here would open all Army records to RTI act. The data is already in public domain, however it CAN NOT be obtained in more detail or even in the same format under the RTI.

Sensitive defence related information can be disseminate by the state alone and can not be demanded under RTI. The CIC's stand is a generic stand on the matter and not specific to Kargil operation, if any of you understand legal procedures.

To put it simply, the list of casualties is available online, but to seek the same from army war records under RTI is not allowed.

I see however how this will be twisted by some people to give this another color.

 

[Necromancer]

Army doesn't have a problems in releasing the casulaty figures(it's already public) but the problem is in:

The curious decision of Sharma came on the plea of RTI applicant Om Prakash Kashiram who sought to know from the Army the number of militants and the Indian soldiers killed in the Kargil War and the matters related therewith.

BY the way most of the RTI applications pertaining to Army are rejected pertaining on National Security ground.

 

[scorpionx]

The morale won't go down.It never does at the time of war.If another misadventure takes place in future the enemy will again get toasted to hell.

 

[Areesh]

So much for the Kargil victory and vijay diwas stories.

 

[Contrarian]

Its standard issue. Army issues cannot be disclosed under RTI. This is under RTI Act.

 

[Areesh]

Kargil war was a total disaster, claims Gen Majeed Malik - thenews.com.pk

These bed time stories are a conspiracy by ISI to fool you Indians if you already aren't.

 

[Hulk]

Not sure why Pakistani gloat about casualties suffered at Indian side. You guys were sitting on top of hill and soldiers were climbing from the bottom. It is normal to have more casualties. Also the other aspect is that initially Army did not reacted to Kargil as action against soldiers with big guns and thought they were mujaheddin, this mistake also led to lot of casualties. IA made huge mistake in not getting to know the really enemy till late and treating them with kid gloves initially. When they knew and brought the Artillery and IAF, things changed big time.

 

[Windjammer]

The morale won't go down.It never does at the time of war.If another misadventure takes place in future the enemy will again get toasted to hell.

As in 2002. !!!

This is just the tip of the iceberg, the admitted losses of 500 odd are nothing more than saving the face figure. !!

 

[notsuperstitious]

All casualties in Kargil war were granted compensation to the tune of abt 40 to 50 klakh minimum (from various govts and agencies together). In 2013 terms thats minimum half a million dollars.

If any soldier has been excluded, their families have all the incentive in the world to come forward and prove the casualty nos wrong.

But this CIC ruling is NOT about Kargil anyway.

Now discussing with pak army fanboys technical matters like Right to Information act in India is as futile as they teaching us the meaning of ''doctrine of necessity''. Legal system of the two countries works differently and even basic understanding of a technical ruling would be too much to ask, as is evident from the post above this one.

 

[INDIC]

As in 2002. !!!

This is just the tip of the iceberg, the admitted losses of 500 odd are nothing more than saving the face figure. !!

India constituted an enquiry commission on Kargil, what about Pakistan, where is the commission.

Nawaz Sharif claimed 3000, ISPR website 453 while Musharraf claimed 260 Pakistani soldiers killed in Kargil.

 

[ares]

Can you present me any other example from history where quoting war casualties of both self and the enemy of a successful military campaign are demoralizing for the troops and the nation.

Ya ...who won world war 2...how many Russian troops died in World war 2?

 

[EzioAltaïr]

These bed time stories are a conspiracy by ISI to fool you Indians if you already aren't.

The same reason for our Generals saying that Kargil suffered too many casualties. It's only too mislead you already propaganda fed people.

No one can honestly believe all these stories you people tell yourselves. When India quotes it's casualty figures as high, it's the word of God, and when Pakistan does, it's an ISI trick?

 

[Windjammer]

indian army falsified Kargil battle records - Brigadier (Retd) Devinder Singh